McVeyMac/phat Gold Dollar Honing Experiment and Practice

[McVeyMac]

Thanks for the writeup phat. That also was the first edge I ever put on a razor finishing with the translucent Arkansas. Keep in mind that I spent quite a lot of time grinding down the stabilizer because with my inexperienced honing techniques, I kept hitting it on the stone. I first tried to avoid hitting it, but found that inevitably I would hit it which would throw the angle off as the stabilizer rode up on the stone. My solution was to grind away the protrusion of the stabilizer. A more skilled hand may not have needed to do this. The other thing that I did on this razor than many might consider overkill is in order to deal with the smirk (upswing of the edge at the toe; half smile) I bread knifed the edge to straighten it out a bit so that my inexperienced strokes would reach all the way accross the blade to the toe. Again, a more skilled honemeister would have probably had the skill to deal with this without such drastic measures.

As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat. I look forward to seeing and using your approach to the GD when it arrives.

I am very glad that I was able to make this $10.00 razor shave ready, and that you were satisfied with the shave that it gave you. I probably only had like $200.00 in labor in it. all of you honemeisters that do this as a business have nothing to worry about from me.

A couple of thoughts here. When you are done shaving with it and evaluating it, kill the edge and put your best edge on it and send it back. I will likewise evaluate and report back here. I have not measured the razor and calculated the bevel angle on this one. If it measures 20+ degrees, I want to narrow down the spine a bit and get it closer 16 degrees. Then I would send it back To see how that edge performs for you. Another thing, since these were only $10.00, I ordered a second one. I have not done anything with the second razor yet. I think I will wait to see what approach you take with your razor before tackling it.

 

[phat]

Thanks for the writeup phat. That also was the first edge I ever put on a razor finishing with the translucent Arkansas. Keep in mind that I spent quite a lot of time grinding down the stabilizer because with my inexperienced honing techniques, I kept hitting it on the stone. I first tried to avoid hitting it, but found that inevitably I would hit it which would throw the angle off as the stabilizer rode up on the stone. My solution was to grind away the protrusion of the stabilizer. A more skilled hand may not have needed to do this. The other thing that I did on this razor than many might consider overkill is in order to deal with the smirk (upswing of the edge at the toe; half smile) I bread knifed the edge to straighten it out a bit so that my inexperienced strokes would reach all the way accross the blade to the toe. Again, a more skilled honemeister would have probably had the skill to deal with this without such drastic measures.

As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat. I look forward to seeing and using your approach to the GD when it arrives.

I am very glad that I was able to make this $10.00 razor shave ready, and that you were satisfied with the shave that it gave you. I probably only had like $200.00 in labor in it. all of you honemeisters that do this as a business have nothing to worry about from me.

A couple of thoughts here. When you are done shaving with it and evaluating it, kill the edge and put your best edge on it and send it back. I will likewise evaluate and report back here. I have not measured the razor and calculated the bevel angle on this one. If it measures 20+ degrees, I want to narrow down the spine a bit and get it closer 16 degrees. Then I would send it back To see how that edge performs for you. Another thing, since these were only $10.00, I ordered a second one. I have not done anything with the second razor yet. I think I will wait to see what approach you take with your razor before tackling it.

I've of necessity had to figure out a stroke that can deal with a smile. My Heifflor wedge (which is actually one of my favorites) I believe is
quite old, and has a noticable smile - by design I believe. I don't find this a deterrent to shaving with it, so unless I need to butter knife it
I probably will not do that. As for the stablizer, I can see how freaking enormous that must have been before you ground it down, so if
mine is the same, I may take the same approach.


I'll be on the road for a few weeks in Brisbane in the Great Southern Land... I'm returning to Canuckistan on the 17th - So at the moment then my plan of record for you is I will shave with this multiple times on my trip, and keep recording the results. When I
return *hopefully* mine will have arrived and I can hone it, and send you back both razors.

 

[phat]

Oh, and I also just pulled the trigger on four 66's from a different seller for a bit over 20 bucks total. I was on ebay in razor
AD mode since I just managed to score a Fili 14 for 78 euros

I'm still working with the original seller on the 100 that I ordered at the same time as you, and hopefully it will get there too...

But I figured if I'm the slow point in this exercise and I'm gonna send you a package we can sort out the next iteration too. Let
you know what is here when I get back.

 

[phat]

So, time for the great drag race before I leave:



Sine I do not yet have my own GD to hone and compare, and I know McVeyMac wants to know how it fares against
my Fili.. So Here's my straight shave #82.

Prep: Shower, and lather on face while stropping.
Left Side of Face: Gold Dollar 100, Honed by McVeyMac, finished on Arkansas. 1 shave since honing, 60 passes on my leather
Right Side of Face: Filarmonica 13 JMP, Honed by Phat, 15 um-> 5 um -> 1 um -> 0.5 UM film. 4 shaves since this, refresh on CROX/FEOX, 10 passes each, then 60 passes on my leather.
Mitchell's Wool Fat
CWS
Clubman AS.

I gave the Gold Dollar the left side of my face, because in fact I've been a bit stronger for close shaves there than my right lately, and my previous shave I had a jawline nick on my right side. In the interest of giving the newcomer the most
fairness, I put it on the left, and the Fili on the right, and went ahead, after prep and stropping both razors (120 passes is a little tiring)

First up was the Fili, WTG, N to S on the right side of my face.. The familiar spanish angels singing a burnt toast aria as it demolished 2 days of growth with almost no pull.. Very nice.

Second up, the GD, on the left side, same pass.. Slightly more noticable pull, less noise of course, but still blasted through everything very weill, no irritation or problems.

Pass 2: The Filli - mouth to ear on top and another angled N-S on neck. effortless cutting... nice

Pass 2: The GD - a bit more pull and noticable whisker cut here, but this does match my usual shave. nevertheless more pull and more whisker to cut. an second reducing pass at a slightly angled N-S on neck.

Pass 3: ATG on neck, going up with the fili starting from next to my trachea, working my way up. Very little pull near my problem area next to trach, fiddly up next to my ear as normal on this side. but the fili whacked through them all. I futzed around a lot near my jawline cut to but get a smooth result but to try not to open up the previous cut, and was successful.

Pass 3: ATG on neck going up with the GD starting from my next to my trach. Noticably more pull than from the same
pass with the Fili, still worked my way up through the pass, seemed to get most everything but a bit more trouble in my problem area on this side

CWS, cleanup, AS, and strop both razors and oil them.

So net result? a bit of AS burn on both sides. Both sides are very well shaven and I would call the Fili side full on BBS. The GD side is BBS everywhere, with a small DFS neck patch, where I couldnt manage the ATG quite as well as with
the fili - some of that may have been me.

The GD did Noticably have more pull.. Sitting here now my left side of face feels a little bit "warmer".

Now. to be completely fair, Both razors shaved very well. I would have been very happy with either shave. The Fili
does seem to pull a bit less, and be a bit better shave, and I'm gonna say it's probably got the better edge on it.
So. What conclusions do I draw from that?

1) McVeyMac puts a darn fine edge on a GD.. I will be very hard pressed to keep up on the same thing and I have my work cut out for me.
2) Happily, I think I put a darn fine edge on my Fili.

But realistically, looking at both razors and having done the Fili -it's a very unfair race. The Fili is so thin and so easy to hone I'm positive that while you may say the Fili is a "better razor" - I'm certain it is a *much easier to hone* razor - which leads to a tyro like me putting a good edge on it. I am certain this GD also has a better edge on it than some of my razors, so I will look forward to continuing to shave with it and report over the next couple weeks.

 

[McVeyMac]

LOL, some might argue that comparing a GD to a Fili is not a fair comparison, but I think it is. Theoretically, the GD should be able shave every bit as well as the Fili, and you may have hinted on one reason why it might not have. I am certain that the bevel width of the GD is several times wider than that of the Fili. This in of itself should not make it shave differently, but it does make it harder to hone well. The second reason might be that the bevel angle of the GD might be several degrees more obtuse than the Fili. I never measured the bevel angle of the GD before shipping it. Once you get back, hone it up, send it back and I will give it a go. Then I would like to measure the bevel angle to see what it is, modify it to about 16 degrees if required, then send it back to you for a grudge match against your Fili.

 

[phat]

MY GOLD DOLLAR ARRIVED!

It finally got here. there was a "wrong" written on the front, looks like canada post might have sent it to the wrong address (the address is correct on it) and someone sent it back.

Alas it is four hours before I leave - I will not have time to hone it.

McVeyMac - I will have something to hone up and send to you when I return!

 

[phat]

.. and sigh.. gonna have to do something about that stabilizer area too.... that's a lot of metal..

 

[McVeyMac]

I am glad it arrive. Safe travels.

 

[phat]

So. My GD arrived literally hours before I left for australia for a bit. I took McVeyMac's GD with me and had
some great shaves on it there.

Now I need to spend some time looking at the one that arrived. I sat down today for honing, I had a vintage
razor (Worcester Razor Co. 6/8) that arrived and I had my Taylor Brothers "Golden Beauty" that I had dropped
which needed work.

I looked at the GD and decided I didn't want to tackle it first. I flattened the edge on the Taylor Brothers to take everything down to the "drop mark" where i had hit the tap with it.. I then re-set the bevel working on 15 um diamond film, and once I got it sharp worked it up through a progression of 5 um, 3 um, 1um , and 1 um with paper under it.

While I was at it I did the same progression with the Worcester 6/8. Both turned out well and HHT swmbo's hair with
barely a pop. I then took them upstairs for CROX/FEOX and leather before shaving with the Worcester.

The GD on the other hand.. Man what a tank compared to the older blades.. there is a lot of metal here.

As McVeyMac noted, there's a slight smile on the toe of it, very slight. I don't consider this too much of a problem
as I have several "smiley" razors I enjoy, and I can hone.

However...

The heel of this thing actually has a *frown*. near the huge stiffener, the blade edge actually sticks out. so when
i take a careful look at it, it actually makes a bit of an S shape. The big shoulder got in McVeyMac's way and looking
at it next to his I can see how much metal he removed..

I was going to attempt to do this thing all on film, but I don't think I can do it. I'm gonna give the big norton a soak
overnight and work on that stablizer.. I actually have decided to take a slightly different approach, as this part of the blade at the heel frowns out, and the shoulder is a big troublesome hunk of metal, I may simply work the stabilizer
down a bunch, shortening it and effectively angling it back down and slightly reducing the length of the usable edge - similar to the blade profile of some of the Japanese straights. With that I think I can avoid this troublesome heel area and hone the thing almost normally instead of fighting that monster shoulder.

I'm thinking "man - this would have been easier if we had just bought two vintage razors" - but I better learn how
to deal with this - I have 5 66's coming

 

[McVeyMac]

I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[Steve56]

I'm enjoying this thread, very nice reading!

Cheers, Steve

 

[McVeyMac]

I'm enjoying this thread, very nice reading!

Cheers, Steve

Hey Steve, what did you ever do with your factory GD? Where you ever able to get it honed up?

 

[rockviper]

Your razor was fashioned after this guy's smile:

 

[Steve56]

Hey Steve, what did you ever do with your factory GD? Where you ever able to get it honed up?

Not yet, it's in the "to do" pile. I have two others I've been working on and gotten where I want them to be.

I think the way a razor shaves, regardless of grind, has to do with the skill of the people who made it - and there apparently is some art to that. My heavy grind Japanese razors, the King Pelican 14 and Eiko (1/4 grind) and Manaslu M500 (probably 1/2) all have bevels so thin it almost takes a magnifier to see them. No such problem with the Gold Dollar!

Cheers, Steve

 

[phat]

Ok, having a peek at one of buca's GD 800's on the marketplace shows at lease someone with experience takes
the same kind of approach I am considering. Looking at

http://imagecdn2.panjo.com/images/75kQuPZ4tRyp.jpg

Shows the GD 800 modded with that big horrific stabilizer and problem area pretty much gone.

I was considering something *slightly* less drastic but at least this kind of confirms my thoughts and direction for this.

Nor pondering my *gasp* dremel tool and bench grinder, and considering if such cheating (yes I know it's dangerous) is
worth it...

Hmm.. looking more unless I unpin the scales the bench grinder appears to be out.. too much stuff getting in the way..

 

[phat]

Athough I appear to have my work cut out for me..

A bit more examination of the two razors, shows that McVeyMac's is *relatively* symmetricly ground. i.e. looking at the grind from the
front shows symmetrical hollows on both sides of the razor - the fat parts of the spine are across from each other.

Mine appears to have gone through the grinding wheels "differently". the wide part of the spine on one side is noticably *not* across from each other and the concave faces are completely different from each other.. I'm wondering if I might have got a "lemon".

So as a result of this it appears that the blade angle is not completely perpendicular to the spine. it's "curved" to one side a bit, the side
where the grind into the spine is more.. This may be a blessing in disguise however as it might actually make the bevel on the edge a little more symmetrical..

Ok yes I know all hollow ground razors are not perfectly symmetrical. but this one appears... well, unique.

I'm actually very curious how this will turn out shave-wise.. While it's easy to take a critical eye to this thing, once I actually get
it honed - I'm wondering if any of this will really make much of a difference on it's ability to shave comfortably. Am I just picking on this thing?

 

[McVeyMac]

If the symmetry (or lack there of) does not get in the way of the stone hitting the apex of the bevel, you should be able to put a bevel on it. Hopefully you don't end up with a wide bevel on one side, and no bevel on the other.

 

[phat]

So. The first step was (gasp) the grinding wheel on the Dremel.. I didn't want to unpin it, so I went for the angle heel
Japanese straight look.. anything to get rid of the frowny area and get me out away from that shoulder.


So I did the dastardly deed to it, then proceeded to start with my 1000K Norton.. I *should* have started on the 250..
I thought that was horrible to do to a razor, but now my shoulders don't think so....

The result was a lot of *very aggressive* bevel setting.. first on the 1000K Norton, and then on 15UM film.. I'm pretty sure the film cuts a bit quicker, but never have I had to grind away at anything so much to get it to start shaving arm hair Endlesss.. grinding.. grinding.. bevel setting circular strokes.. my fingers and shoulders are sore.... I think I'm
gonna go buy a 325 DMT to start this process if I have to do it again!

What then followed was a long slow progression through 5 um, 3um, 1um and 1 um on paper.

I then gave it 25 passes on CROX balsa, 25 passes on FEOX balsa, and stropped it. 20 passes on suede, and 60 on cordovan on the Kamayana..

It HHT's SWMBO's hair the length of the blade with barely a pop.

under a glass however, the edge looks strange - the assymetric spine (You'll see when you get it, esp. compared to the
one you got) makes the bevel not the same angle on both sides of the face. short of *COMPLETELY* regrinding this particular razor. I don't think there will be much I can do about that.




As you can see - there's probably not much danger in mixing the two up - due to the approach I took on the stabilizer.

For reference here's mcveymac's:



Now, what I don't really yet know is if It shaves good. I know McVeyMac's honing of that beast is very decent. and while
the bevel on this *looks* strange because it's not symmetric it *does* cut - and seems to cut allright.. I don't yet know
how this will translate to a shave.

What I did with it so far is treetop arm hair, and I quickly slapped a little MWF on my cheek and took a few XTG strokes
against later day growth - it did seem to cut comfortably. So I'd say it's probably ok, and will probably shave allright.

One thing I can say for sure, honing up one of these is a *LOT* more work than getting a vintage razor back into shaving
shape, which is all I've done so far.. Even setting the bevel on my W&B wedge did not take as much time, and as much grinding as this thing did. So while (having shaved with McVeyMac's at least) I can recommend them as good shavers when properly honed, I think for sure I would *NOT* recommend someone try to learn to hone on one of these. go buy
a nice little 10 to 20 dollar vintage Torrey or Geneva or any reasonable cheap on the 'bay brand - you'll have a lot nicer time of it.

Not sure If I should send it like this, or If I should have a shave off between the two of them and then send them...

 

[phat]

I wonder if I should find somthing to take that awful blue paint off it

 

[McVeyMac]

Wow, you got after it. As far as whether to shave with them both, or send them, whatever trips your trigger brother. Regarding the ugly blue paint, it looks like it will chip off reasonably well after a year or two of use, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

It looks like the bevel is fairly even across the show side of the blade (sans the toe smile). Is this the side with the wide bevel, or the thin bevel? And you are correct, no need to mark the razor as to which one is which. It has your permanent mark on it.