Livi New Grinds

[huntmol]

I'm a little worried about the unpolished grooved file work scratching up my strop also. Just seems uneven.
Anyone run in to that?

Yeah, someone scratched up his Kanayama strop with a Livi. He was none too happy.

Yeah, that was me (Livi New Grind & Strop Damage), and I've got a few things to say.

Here is the razor in question:

and here is the infamous spine work:

and here is the "damage" that was caused:
(I know it's not a lot, but this was the result of a single stropping session.
I was kind of freaking out because I was thinking of what months of daily stropping would do to the leather surface if this was accomplished in just a few laps.)

So I went and posted the above thread, and someone suggested a way to fix it:

And you know what? It worked! Just a bit of elbow grease, and the razor no longer made any markings on my strop.

However, to this day I still think that it's bull**** that this entire issue could have been solved before the razor was ever shipped out by spending two minutes on a polishing/buffing wheel. I know that these aren't full Livi customs, but for $300 I would think that someone could give the razors at least a cursory inspection for rough spine work or other small defects.

 

[huntmol]

And now, the replies:

Even if the razor was half the price, I'd rather have no file work on the spine than sloppy spine work. It is simply inexcusable.

+1

Educate yourself guys (or whoever "wrecked" their strop should have before purchasing). A filed spine is always going to scratch up your strop a bit - a "worked" spine is generally more "finished" and smoothed out. Thats how it was explained to me anyway. I simply use one of my older strops with razors that have filed spines. Scratches dont actually damage the strop, other than altering its look in a way that some might be unhappy with.

First off, I never claimed that the strop was wrecked. I was simply worried about future damage to my strop. A bit of palm stropping and it was back to normal in a week or so.
Second, I would actually agree with you about the difference between normal razors and those with worked spines. I understand that worked spines are naturally "tougher" on strops than normal spines, but in what's your explanation in this case? The whole issue was solved with a bit of metal polish! That, to me, indicates that this is not a typical example of a worked spine, and was something that Mastro Livi (or even one of the assistants in his shop) should have taken care of before declaring it a finished product.

When you pay for something to be done right by a master razor maker then it should look like it was done by one.

+1

Scratches may not affect the strop performance but it sure as hell makes a cordovan strop look like crap that some may be able to live with but not most.

Yes, exactly. I knew that it wasn't ruining the strop, but I sure a hell wasn't going to put up with that every time I stropped the razor.

The point is that many of us expect better fit and finish on a $300+ razor. If you don't mind paying top dollar for sloppy work, that is your prerogative. But don't imply that those who have higher standards are ignorant.

+1

By educate yourself, I was also saying that you should do proper research before making your purchase, as the original poster did. Know what to expect, and your expectations will be met.

Are you seriously suggesting that after being a straight shaver for two years and owning many different straight razors, that it was my fault for purchasing this razor and assuming that it was a completed product? To me, this razor was not a case of a "normal" worked spine, as indicated by how simple it was to take care of.

By educate yourself, I am saying that the fix for the filed back putting scratches on your strop (such fix is unnecessary IMHO, but you can do it if you like), is documented in other posts in this forum and takes about 2 minutes to do (according to Bill Ellis who commented in that thread).

So simply because it was an easy fix, that makes it excusable? In my opinion it makes it all the more inexcusable because of how easy it would have been to take care of while the razor was still in the shop!

In my opinion, something that does not affect the functionality of a razor (i.e. the thing still shaves brilliantly), is not sloppy workmanship - it is an indication of the individuality of the product you purchased.

I would not consider rushed or incomplete work an "indication of individuality", but rather an indication of subpar craftsmanship.

If you want to further customise it after purchase, then you can do that if you wish.

"Customize it" after purchase? Seriously?
More like fixing a defect that should have been taken care of before I ever received it.

I guess I understand that theyre a hand made razor, so file work might not be exactly Xmm apart, and at exactly X angle etc, but thats very different to whats being discussed here.
I think the real question is - on a $300 razor, by a maestro - should you have to test it on a strop first, and should you have to tidy up sharp edges?
(methinks not for $300)

+1

Incidentally, if you strop a japanese razor on a western strop (which is generally viewed as standard practice), you will get scratch marks on your strop. I dare you to try a kanayama with a japanese razor that doesnt have the point blunted - there will be much tears.

Really? Because I've stropped my Iwasaki Kamisori on my Kanayama #60,000 hundreds of times without as much as a single scratch to the leather.

Would you purchase a new leather jacket with a ripped sleeve and chalk it off to "individuality?"
Would you accept a bespoke suit with one pant leg clearly shorter than the other? It isn't mass produced so it must be okay.
How about a $60 steak you ordered rare? What would you do if the waiter brought you a well done steak? It was cooked by hand, so what the hell, just eat it.
A new car with scratches?
How you spend your money is entirely up to you. Me? The leather jacket doesn't get purchased, the suit gets returned, I like my steaks rare and the dealership deals with the scratches.

EXACTLY! This isn't about a personal handmade touch, but rather a product that was either improperly made or not 100% completed. Slight imperfections are acceptable, but the craftsman should deal with the defects of a product before selling them to a customer.

 

[Chimensch]

does anyone know who made the blanks in the first place?

The man's name was Pinin.

 

[petr]

After being a little disappointed with my Livi, I very very carefully honed it on the weekend. I shaved with it this morning and it's like a completely different razors. It is scarily sharp. It gave a very impressive shave this morning. I'm even going to do something I haven't done in a long time, and shave with the same razor for a week so see how is goes after a bit of use and stropping.

I'm curious about how this is going for you. And anyone else can jump in here.

I'm having a hard time getting the edge on the Livi just right and forced a couple of rough shaves because of it. So I am stuck between the question ... is it the blade capable of the smoothness I am after or is it my honing skills that are the problem?

 

[Thebigspendur]

I'm curious about how this is going for you. And anyone else can jump in here.

I'm having a hard time getting the edge on the Livi just right and forced a couple of rough shaves because of it. So I am stuck between the question ... is it the blade capable of the smoothness I am after or is it my honing skills that are the problem?

Sorry but it's your honing skills. I have several Livi's and they are among the best shavers I have.

 

[professorchaos]

I'm curious about how this is going for you. And anyone else can jump in here.

I'm having a hard time getting the edge on the Livi just right and forced a couple of rough shaves because of it. So I am stuck between the question ... is it the blade capable of the smoothness I am after or is it my honing skills that are the problem?

The new grinds are pretty easy to hone, the customs somewhat more difficult. Both groups are capable of taking sharp, smooth edges. FWIIW, I think the Takeda Damascus the smoothest of the three I have, followed by the new grind then the Inox Damascus.

 

[PhatMan]

Hi,

A case of YMMV ?

I must be lucky; my Livi NewGrind is one of my favourite razors, is easy to hone, takes and keeps a superb edge and shaves beautifully.

For me, a very fine razor

Have fun !

regards

Russ

 

[johnmrson]

I'm curious about how this is going for you. And anyone else can jump in here.

I'm having a hard time getting the edge on the Livi just right and forced a couple of rough shaves because of it. So I am stuck between the question ... is it the blade capable of the smoothness I am after or is it my honing skills that are the problem?

It's been going great. I've used the razor every day this week and it's been very impressive. To hone it, I gave it 30 or so laps on the 8000 grit, 50 laps on the 12000 with slurry, 50 laps on the 12000 without slurry, 60 laps on a balsa strop and 60 laps each on linen and leather. I used one layer of electrical tape on the spine for all the stone honing and took it off for the rest. It really transformed the razor from being so-so to being able to easily give a BBS shave. I couldn't be happier with it.

 

[petr]

It's been going great. I've used the razor every day this week and it's been very impressive. To hone it, I gave it 30 or so laps on the 8000 grit, 50 laps on the 12000 with slurry, 50 laps on the 12000 without slurry, 60 laps on a balsa strop and 60 laps each on linen and leather. I used one layer of electrical tape on the spine for all the stone honing and took it off for the rest. It really transformed the razor from being so-so to being able to easily give a BBS shave. I couldn't be happier with it.

That's great news, especially since I am still experiencing some roughness. Great perspective.

 

[petr]

I'm gaining some insight now about what these razor are and are not. I have a lot to say. They have their own style without a doubt, and like anything else that has its benefits and burdens. Rustic, hand ground, tooled by eye and feel.

 

[joshmpdx]

Curiosity got the best of me.

I'm gaining some insight now about what these razor are and are not. I have a lot to say. They have their own style without a doubt, and like anything else that has its benefits and burdens. Rustic, hand ground, tooled by eye and feel.

Petr, did you order 2??

 

[petr]

Petr, did you order 2??

Yeah, after the first I ordered the second a week later.