Linux questions

[SobBill2]

Hands down, the best way to screw around with Linux or any new OS without harming anything else is to download VMWare Player and an image of the distro you want to try. You can also still be messing around and looking up commands in Windows at the same time this way. The LiveCD is also a good option, but then you can't minimize Linux.

I tested out Asterisk and some experimental Windows setups using VMWare.

Regarding the PVR thing, I'd recommend looking into either KnoppMyth or LinuxMCE, KnoppMyth is a Debian-based distro, originally based on Knoppix, but it's pretty straight-forward. As for LinuxMCE, it's basically an extended version of Mythbuntu that's supposed to be stupidly simple to get up and running since it's still Ubuntu-based.

As for Windows, well.. if you're not a PC gamer you can live without it. Good luck with making the switch. The only other advice I can offer is that you should never, ever make the default runlevel 6.

Thanks!
I downloaded the VMPlayer, perhaps I'll get to play with it tomorrow.
I need a new video card to take advantage of my new 22" LCD, I think I'll get one with a TV tuner to try Myth TV.
I'm running Mepis (mainly) I can also boot Kububtu and 64 bit XP professional.
At one time my computer ran 5 operating systems and Window$.

 

[apex.predator]

Thanks. I downloaded imgburn and it seemed to install just fine. I went to the linuxmint site and tried to download the "main" version. It was a "Torrent" or some such. When I clicked on the "torrent" button, it took me to an iso download link. I downloaded to my desktop but all it gave me was an icon of some sort saying it was 50 odd kb in size. I tried right clicking the icon and the link itself at the download site but nothing came up in the menu for imgburn. I am sure I am just doing something wrong. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?

Regards, Todd

PA, try this link. Look for "Download." It's in red and flashing. FTP and HTTP are the download links. FTP started fine when I clicked on it, and it doesn't look like a torrent. That should be simpler. Clicking on the HTTP link would probably work fine but it said it was logging me in as a user, and that's when I stopped it.

Depending on your connection speed, the download could take quite a while - hours. If you're on dial-up, you will want to click on the Linux CD banner ad on the same page. Then you won't be downloading at all, just paying a few dollars to have the CD shipped to you. If you're have a DSL or faster connection, no worries.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Phog Allen]

Thanks for the link. I downloaded the files to my desktop, right clicked and selected "burn with imgburn", and proceeded to wait. The software indicated it was doing all kinds of stuff and went through two or three progress bars. Finally it said it was stopping because of some error. I don't know what it was but it stopped at 80%. I kept hitting "continue" but it was no good. I could then see what was on the disk but could do nothing with it. I think that the disc simply filled up before entire image was burned. The file was 688Mb but aren't cd-r's 700Mb? Anyway, it was showing over 700,000 bites so I figured something bad happened. Should I try again? Is there some silly little thing I am doing wrong here? Thanks again for the great help.

Regards, Todd

 

[apex.predator]

Todd,

Sometimes ISO files read as a little more than 700MB. Not sure of the technical explanation, but it will fit on one CD.

Sounds like another software burning package might be in order. This search turns up a few, but I have no experience with any of them, so you may have to go fishing with a couple to get one that works.

Once that's done, though, it should be a matter of just rebooting with the CD in the drive. Before you install anything you should do a backup of your critical files, of course.

 

[rabidpotatochip]

I have to add something to this thread since I finally finished my MythTV box about half an hour ago.

Mythbuntu rocks. Seriously.

The chipset on the motherboard I bought was too new for Knoppmyth to support, so having heard about Ubuntu's legendary support for almost anything that exists I thought I'd try it instead. It really works right away, the chipset, the tuner, the cordless mouse, etc. I had to fiddle with the mic gain in alsamixer when watching live TV but that was the worst problem during setup and testing. And don't get me started on installing extra packages... whew, great stuff.

 

[Phog Allen]

Rabid and Apex. Thought I would let you know that I did in fact burn the ISO image correctly. I just needed to get to the boot menu(F12 on my Dell)and tell it to boot from CD. Worked like a champ. LInuxmint is eye catching when it opens. In fact, I am posting this from Linuxmint. At least I guess I am. I am booted from the CD currently. I will have to really explore this distro. One thing I am unsure about. When i am booted up in LM, am I accessing the net from the same or am I just being "ported" over to my Windows internet connection? I ask because I just clicked the Firefox icon and away I went. No setup at all. I will try chucking a music CD in an seeing it if plays. Does LInuxmint usually play CD's right out of the box? I seem to be finding a recurring theme that many Linux distros do not play CDs or DVDs out of the box so to speak because of licensing issues. What is that all about? Does it just mean that the software player needs some sort of agreement with the recording industries? Just a thought. It seems to be some sort of easily overcome problem if you could even call it that. Thanks again for pointing me to this distro. I may grab Mythbunut as well. BTW, does anyone know if these distros will work off a USB thumbdrive? My boot menu supporst this and I thought it may be a neat way to store a couple of distros on one drive. Do you have to "burn" these like a CD? Thanks.

Regards, Todd

 

[apex.predator]

Todd, glad to hear it!

You are running Mint from the CD and that's why there's no setup when using Firefox. It's all intalled in the ISO image which is loaded into the working memory when you boot. Mint then uses your existing internet connection. No need to install other software as with MS Windows; the ISO recognizes your network and uses it.

Since you're running from CD, though, it probably won't play a CD - as you've likely already discovered. Unless you have an additional drive installed, that is.

I do play audio files, but not CDs or DVDs on my PC, so I can't answer about them. However, I know some distros avoid any software which is proprietary (more accurately, which is not free in all senses - such as Fedora and Debian). Mint is not like that; it includes proprietary software such as Flash, IIRC.

 

[Phog Allen]

Sorry Apex. I do indeed have two optical drives. A DVD ROM and a DVD RW. Dell threw the extra drive in for $20 when I ordered it. So I guess I can try it. I am also thinking of downloading Mythbuntu just to have an image to mess with. Just in case I do build that PVR.

Regards, Todd

 

[biomesh]

Generally the codecs to decode the information stored on DVDs are not included since the licenses do not comply with the overall license scheme that the respective distributions adhere to. Some codecs cost money to reditribute, so that is another limitation. You should really be able to play any normal music CD as the format of the audio is CDA, but playing a MP3 file or a region encoded DVD is another matter. You will need a linux distribution that provides these codecs or you need to install a player and the codecs yourself.

 

[ScottS]

Generally the codecs to decode the information stored on DVDs are not included since the licenses do not comply with the overall license scheme that the respective distributions adhere to. Some codecs cost money to reditribute, so that is another limitation. You should really be able to play any normal music CD as the format of the audio is CDA, but playing a MP3 file or a region encoded DVD is another matter. You will need a linux distribution that provides these codecs or you need to install a player and the codecs yourself.

Bingo. This is the problem inherent with running Linux. Installing new stuff can involve days of tweaking, even if you know what you're doing. If you like rolling up your sleeves and getting real involved with your OS, Linux is great, and if you don't, Linux is less great.

My last experience w/ Linux was 4-5 years ago. As I recall, the OS was super-stable, but the apps crashed with regularity.

 

[biomesh]

Bingo. This is the problem inherent with running Linux. Installing new stuff can involve days of tweaking, even if you know what you're doing. If you like rolling up your sleeves and getting real involved with your OS, Linux is great, and if you don't, Linux is less great.

My last experience w/ Linux was 4-5 years ago. As I recall, the OS was super-stable, but the apps crashed with regularity.

Well, I use Linux on my desktop and laptop (and have been for the last few years). Generally if you use a production release version of Linux, the stability is much improved since many of the interim releases are focused on adding new features then making them stable afterwards.

As for installing codecs, etc just search (google, etc) for your respective distribution and codecs and you should get plenty of hits.

 

[ScottS]

I'm not saying its bad, but it is a tinkerer's OS despite how far the distributions have come in the last five years, and if you don't like tinkering, that should be a strong consideration.

For what most people want an OS for, which is a bit of web browsing, a bit of word processing, and a bit of spreadsheets, something barely better than WebTV is really necessary. Any good OS with a really good up to date firewall and antivirus is really all one needs.

 

[apex.predator]

Any good OS with a really good up to date firewall and antivirus is really all one needs.

I agree, but it's also safe to run Linux with no antivirus, as I do. In fact, it doesn't make sense to run an anti-virus with Linux as there are currently no Linux viruses. I run only a Netgear firewall and iptables.

For some, though, running Windows involves quite a bit of tinkering. When my nephew was showing me his laptop yesterday, he showed me all of the security software he runs. I lost count after about a half dozen applications. Antivirus, anti adware, and I don't know what all. I could relate because I used to do the same 3 years ago before I started using Linux, but I don't envy him at all. That's tinkering, and if it isn't the norm I still think it's not at all unusual for Windows users.

 

[rabidpotatochip]

I'm not saying its bad, but it is a tinkerer's OS despite how far the distributions have come in the last five years, and if you don't like tinkering, that should be a strong consideration.

For what most people want an OS for, which is a bit of web browsing, a bit of word processing, and a bit of spreadsheets, something barely better than WebTV is really necessary. Any good OS with a really good up to date firewall and antivirus is really all one needs.

"Linux is only free if your time is worthless." Or something like that.

ScottS, I swear I agree with you 001_smile) and this paragraph isn't directed at you or anyone on this board, just the "Linux snobs" out there. I tried Linux out for the first time about ten years ago and you really had to spend a lot of time trying to get it even remotely functional; sadly, most distros still follow that paradigm. This OS is more than two decades old with contributors easily numbering in the tens of thousands, so why should we have to spend two hours finding and compiling drivers for a USB mouse? After more than two decades it should just work and screwing around with shell scripts and config files should be an optional activity.

Anyway, there are finally distros out there that are truly plug and play or "set it and forget it" as I like to say. My only affiliation with any distro is that I've used it. Ubuntu is really great for the new user; it has a Windows look and feel (which may hurt in the long run) and it has a package manager that automagically (yes, I used that word) checks for updates and alerts you. Everything gets detected and you have a functional system within an hour. If you want to mess around in the shell (and you will some day, believe me) it's still an option. If you want to build an OS that's designed just for your computer check out Gentoo, but after hour 12 you'll probably want to cry. Once it's up and running it's good too, though.

Just screw around with whatever catches your fancy and have fun; that's the way to learn Linux.

 

[apex.predator]

This OS is more than two decades old with contributors easily numbering in the tens of thousands, so why should we have to spend two hours finding and compiling drivers for a USB mouse?

Agreed. I've successfully used Linux for over 2 years and I didn't compile anything until the last couple of months.

That's only because I prefer to use a more hands-on distro like Slackware. I could easily use Debian or Mint or a dozen other distros where compiling is a thing of the past.

As far as installing Linux, well, most users have never installed Windows.

 

[ScottS]

" After more than two decades it should just work and screwing around with shell scripts and config files should be an optional activity.

I think this has something to say about the open source model, but I'm not sure what. Perhaps the model works better for apps, which I've been fairly happy with, but not the OS. Then again, many of the apps are little more than copies of well developed apps.

I'd venture a guess that tens of thousands of development hours have been sunk into the commercial OS's, and more for the open source stuff, but without careful top-level direction, many of those hours are wasted.

 

[rabidpotatochip]

I agree, but it's also safe to run Linux with no antivirus, as I do. In fact, it doesn't make sense to run an anti-virus with Linux as there are currently no Linux viruses. I run only a Netgear firewall and iptables.

*cough cough*
Granted, their ability to propagate sucks, but they do exist. Fun trivia for the next time someone says that.

(snip) As far as installing Linux, well, most users have never installed Windows.

Touché.

 

[biomesh]

I'm not saying its bad, but it is a tinkerer's OS despite how far the distributions have come in the last five years, and if you don't like tinkering, that should be a strong consideration.

For what most people want an OS for, which is a bit of web browsing, a bit of word processing, and a bit of spreadsheets, something barely better than WebTV is really necessary. Any good OS with a really good up to date firewall and antivirus is really all one needs.

Your statements, to me are conflicting, or at least need more clarification. Linux can be a tinkerer's OS, it is not inherently so. If it were, it would not be installed on the PCs of my relatives who use it on a day to day basis. My brother and I receive less calls for help once we installed linux on their PCs. Many of the issues with Windows stem from spyware, viruses, etc, but these really aren't an issue any more.

If someone is looking for a stable OS that can be used for web browsing, word processing, spreadsheets, and email these are all available with Linux right now with no tinkering. If you want to add in printing and digital camera support, this is usually not a problem unless you buy cheap hardware that supports windows only APIs.

 

[ScottS]

My brother and I receive less calls for help once we installed linux on their PCs.

Sure, having already handed them a working version with all the appropriate drivers/codecs/etc. How do you think it would work out for them if you just handed them a CD?

 

[biomesh]

Well, I wouldn't hand them a Windows CD either. (with or without drivers)