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I think I've become "commercialized"

I'm not saying every restaurant follows the guidelines, nor am I in any way implying a soap maker here or anywhere is using a contaminated kitchen. I am saying the food industry is regulated. Mis-followed and fought against and outright abused--obviously. But there are those guidelines in place, which are strict.

This is probably piling on at this point, but if the fact that the restaurant industry is regulated makes you feel better about using their products, I'd be careful. I've long since moved on to another career, but my undergraduate degree is in Hotel & Restaurant management and I spent many of my younger years working in restaurants. I took the required sanitation course and was, "certified" (that's certified, not certifiable for you wise guys out there). Let me tell you, some of the stuff I saw in the restaurants I worked in would make you never want to eat in a restaurant again, and would probably put you off eating in general.

I've also worked in some other more highly regulated industries and it didn't necessarily stop defective or even dangerous product from reaching the public. I guess that's just a long winded way of saying that regulations or using big companies' products vs. small companies' products doesn't necessarily guarantee a superior product. We're fortunate enough on this forum to hear about great vendors with great products and services every day. I'd much rather rely on someone's experience with a product or vendor than trust my luck to regulations.

By the way, one last thought. Don't ever send your food back to the kitchen if it didn't come out the way you wanted it. Trust me. :w00t:
 
All being said, I do wish I could find a product that worked well and support the small business. I myself have had a small business and understand the importance of this.

In my mind, with the exception of products such as Aqua Velva, most of these products are worth the dollar... Not that AV isn't, what I mean is that shaving soaps and non-tube creams are a niche product and the companies who do good products should get some of my money. AV, on the other hand, is main stream rather than a niche so I am less worried for them (though I do have some AV on my shelf...).

While I know Tabac has a larger company behind it, I still buy it because I like the product and want to support it. Same with others such as Penhaligons. Not a "small company," but worth support.
 
My skin is pretty sensitive and I'm pretty leery of heavily scented products. I'm also not a big fan of glycerin shaving soaps so I generally don't buy shaving soaps from the small business that are frequently talked about on this board. As far as latherability goes, I bought an unscented jar of soap from one homemade soaper and it lathered fine. Most of these makers are using the same or similar glycerin shave soap base that they buy in bulk so efficacy really isn't an issue. If you couldn't get the soap to lather right, there might be something wrong with your water or your technique.

Also, I have had my face burned by a few products from the big name and well known companies. Lab tested or not, they still burned my face. Some of these products were touted by the companies' themselves or by members of this board as being good for sensitive skin. Skin reactions to FOs or EOs or any other ingredients in soap or other shaving products are very much an individual thing. There are products other guys with sensitive skin can't use that I can, and there are products everyone else can use with no problem that burn my face like you wouldn't believe.
 
Heading back home from the dumpsters behind the liposoction place.. I tripped over an alley cat and decided that maybe fat isn't all it is made up to be..


other than that.. I am dissapointed and heart broken to learn that you feel this way.. I have a few points in retrospective that I would love to discuss.. but my pm was not returned.. so here I am.. spanking my own ***...

I have absolutely no issue with anyone going to commercial way.

Thing is.. I have spent 4 years on here trying to have a small time home made product that was better than commercial.. and yes, I know I can do it...

you have a pm.. I want to talk.. there is nothing but oil, lye. liquid and love in my soaps.. the only issue is the fragrance.. and I admit it freely.. I make a fragrant product.. and some may not agree with it..

but the fragrance free soap I sell is better than anything else on the market world wide. Period. Send me an email with your adress and I will send you one.. gratis... and let's see... ok?
 
Heading back home from the dumpsters behind the liposoction place.. I tripped over an alley cat and decided that maybe fat isn't all it is made up to be..


other than that.. I am dissapointed and heart broken to learn that you feel this way.. I have a few points in retrospective that I would love to discuss.. but my pm was not returned.. so here I am.. spanking my own ***...

I have absolutely no issue with anyone going to commercial way.

Thing is.. I have spent 4 years on here trying to have a small time home made product that was better than commercial.. and yes, I know I can do it...

you have a pm.. I want to talk.. there is nothing but oil, lye. liquid and love in my soaps.. the only issue is the fragrance.. and I admit it freely.. I make a fragrant product.. and some may not agree with it..

but the fragrance free soap I sell is better than anything else on the market world wide. Period. Send me an email with your address and I will send you one.. gratis... and let's see... ok?


:a45:
 
Heading back home from the dumpsters behind the liposoction place.. I tripped over an alley cat and decided that maybe fat isn't all it is made up to be..


other than that.. I am dissapointed and heart broken to learn that you feel this way.. I have a few points in retrospective that I would love to discuss.. but my pm was not returned.. so here I am.. spanking my own ***...

I have absolutely no issue with anyone going to commercial way.

Thing is.. I have spent 4 years on here trying to have a small time home made product that was better than commercial.. and yes, I know I can do it...

you have a pm.. I want to talk.. there is nothing but oil, lye. liquid and love in my soaps.. the only issue is the fragrance.. and I admit it freely.. I make a fragrant product.. and some may not agree with it..

but the fragrance free soap I sell is better than anything else on the market world wide. Period. Send me an email with your adress and I will send you one.. gratis... and let's see... ok?

Score one for "home brewed"! Anyone care to place bets to see if any of the "laboratory brands" is going to offer such great customer service? My money's on "no":wink2:
 
You have PM as well.

But, thanks for posting here. First off, you have built for yourself quite an impressive reputation that you truly deserve. My gosh, you attentiveness to this thread says a ton. You know, truthfully, I could take crap on you, your products and you 500 lb dog all day in every post and it wouldn't cause you any ill. There are way too many that love what you do. I myself admire that. Okay, so this isn't a review nor a bashing thread nor a praising, blah blah. I do want to make it clear I'm not attempting to persuade any person in any direction. My own mind is not made up. Alright.

You say you make your products better than commercial. Better than say...Tabac? That one seems to get a ton or praise here.

The question I have is, how are you better?

The ingredients seem simple enough, but what is your testing strategy? Do you have beta-testers out there?

You mention fragrances. Have you considered offering a light fragrance line by chance? Diet-Soap.

I want to truly thank you for saying you are and for your response in advance, as I feel the information here will be enlightening to all.

Thanks again!
 
the unscented is 100% natural...it is actually good for you.. the fragrances change that, which is why I like to stick to essential oils only.. but sigh.. some of the fo's out there just smell so darn good..

500 lb dog? lol.. he's only 200... and he's a lap dog..but ya, he's a moose... blushing...

In all seriousness.. I have agonized over this issue and don't know what to do.. fragrance is a bad thing in so many ways... but we all love it. As a soapmaker it is the fragrance that makes soapmaking wonderful.. it is the fun part of making soap... on the other hand.. it is the bad part too. At one point I remember QED saying they would not make soap again with any fragrance oils.. just essential oils.. but there are people who have issues with eo's too. I have a serious love for fragrance, be it synthetic or natural... I love working with scents... I love the smell of my soap kitchen and my store.. but I hate when the soaps I work so hard to make wonderful for people cause a reaction. Honestly.. it breaks my heart. but it is not just my soaps.. there are big companies out there who have fragrances that do the same thing.

So.. maybe I should sell the unscented and the unscented only... I don't know.. I will say this. my soaps are all made with love, and it is darn good soap.. but what to do about the fragrance.. I think it is time I learned more about this. My heart breaks every time someone has a problem with the soap... and I don't know what to do.
 
My heart breaks every time someone has a problem with the soap... and I don't know what to do.

You make A LOT of people here happy with your soaps. You can't make a soap that is going to work for everyone. I say this as someone who also has a problem with heavier fragranced soaps in general.
 
One thing I've seen before is mention of members melting part of a fragranced glycerin soap with an unscented one at home. You could take 1/2 or even 1/4 of a fragranced soap and melt it with an unscented one. Then you have your "diet" soap.
 
Hmmm...cutting a scent dowm with a non-scented sounds like a good idea.

This didn't begin just about scents. There has also been an issue (NOT with Sue), about products that just didn't perform well.

But, we have shifted towards scents and while Sue is willing to contribute, I say we take full advantage of her prescence as many will learn from reading this and gain more knowledge and wisdom from her insight. I thank people like her, and here on B and B there are many.

I've been interested in the whole fragrance issue a long time. At one point, I was a supplier of FO's. This is just my thought. As much as I like natural things, I don't think EO's is always a good thing. Perhaps I like the scent of lemons. (I do.) EO of lemons...or uh...highly concentrated lemon juice and citric acid...that would be painful.
 
This didn't begin just about scents. There has also been an issue (NOT with Sue), about products that just didn't perform well.

Glycerin soap vs. triple milled is really a matter of personal preference. A decent glycerin soap (regardless of who makes it) will lather just as easily as a milled soap if you know how to use it. The "feel" of the lather will be different, but there shouldn't be anything wrong with it per se. The only soaps I have heard of that didn't work at all were "cold process" soaps that had a fair amount or large amount of olive oil in them. I tried two of these from two different makers and I couldn't get them to lather properly whatsoever. Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall any posts by an experience user (i.e. not technique or water quality related) saying they couldn't get a glycerin melt 'n pour soap from Mama Bear, Honeybee, SCS, TGQ, QED, etc. to lather or shave properly.
 
As much as I like natural things, I don't think EO's is always a good thing. Perhaps I like the scent of lemons. (I do.) EO of lemons...or uh...highly concentrated lemon juice and citric acid...that would be painful.

See your point. As I've said before, many EOs are skin irritants, and if your skin is particularly sensitive, even a small amount of EO can cause irritation problems. For people with really sensitive skin, unscented products with no EOs or FOs will always be the safest route though there will can be other issues at play with respect to ingredients and the Ph level of a soap or cream. For example, Art of Shaving Unscented cream burns my face. Nothing in the ingredients seems bad, so it's probably the Ph or the quantity/type of preservative used n the cream.
 
I've been interested in the whole fragrance issue a long time. At one point, I was a supplier of FO's. .

You probably know more about FO's than I do than... I think this is a good discussion because it frustrates me that something that smells so good can be great with one person and not good with another. Folks always ask me what is it in the fragrance that bothers them, and I honestly don't know.. the suppliers won't tell me what is in them. I know that soapers are trying to buy phthalate free fragrances.. but no one seems to know why that is in a fragrance oil to begin with. So what is in a fragrance oil?

I understand what you are saying about homemade... but I am going to compare it to cooking.. My mom cooked meals from scratch every night when I was growing up.. it was incredible.. I still miss those meals.. I don't think anyone misses my meals.. I just can't cook... Sometimes homemade can be the best and sometimes the worst. If you come to my house.. we will go out to dinner.. trust me on that.. it's safer.. :sneaky2:
 
I have always considered myself to have sensitive skin, but seem to get along with most shaving soaps. Other than canned goo, which for unknown reasons always seems unsatisfying, the only shaving soap I have encountered that actually irritated my skin was from Neal's Yard Remedies. They pride themselves on their natural approach to all their products. I have never seen it reviewed here, however.

This soap was a gift from my girlfriend a few years ago. It lathered quite well and shaved beautifully. The scent was light lavender, which I like. Unfortunately, it made my face burn. The reviews I have seen for this product were almost all positive. If it were not for the burn, I would probably use it regularly because of all the other good qualities.

In case anyone wants to try it, their site is:

http://www.nealsyardremedies.com/close-shave-soap

Like so many things in life, YMMV is all we can say. Trying new things until we find what works for us is part of the journey. Enjoy what is good and move on from what is not. Be kind to yourself.
 
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