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Gillette Single Rings with British Patent Numbers

"According to the Patent Act of Lloyd-George any patent for a patented good produced outside the UK could be revoked one year after the patent act passed, this was 28th August 1907. So after the 28th August 1908. any patented good produced excluseively outside the UK could potentially lose the British patent protection."
A sales and distribution company with no manufacturing capabilities of its own could clearly be sold as "a going concern" but the company that was being sold was also to include manufacturing so that part also had to be "going" to satisfy the government patent requirement.

The Working Clause coming into effect is a much stronger argument for Gillette starting some amount of production in the later part of 1908 than the whole "going concern" line. Still, even that only suggests the start of the period that Gillette's patents would have been at risk. However, I do think it's reasonable to guess that they probably had some amount of production happening in England during the year. Just what that was and how extensive it was is certainly unclear at this point.

From other instances, we know that Gillette was perfectly happy referring to relatively small operations as "factories." Certainly any operation actually in London proper that they'd have been calling a "factory" in 1908, as in that Christmas ad posted previously, wouldn't have been anything more serious than their first Paris "factory" -- a few blade sharpening machines working imported blanks and some packaging staff in a room or two of their offices at either the Minories or Holborn Viaduct. Alternatively, it could be that they just figured no one would know where Leicester was and just used London as the location with more cachet.

Then I brainstorm possiblities - did Boston supply Europe with machinery for the protocol that Boston was about to adopt (red) or did Boston supply the red series razors to Europe and supply them with machinery for the black series? If the former, then what prompted them to retool from red to black? Were Boston producing the "N" suffix razors and replacing the "A" with an "F" in the serial numbers as they did with the early "G" series?

The fundamental problem I have with the idea that Boston was providing any of the razors that you're suggesting is that they are all marked differently from any of Boston's other work, including sets we've seen that were imported into these same markets during this same time. The "black" series markings are wildly unlike anything out of Boston. Even the "red" series, which are the closest to anything like Boston's markings, bear more of a resemblance to Canada's. Boston's serial stamping on the guard plate was done on the lower part of the plate when looking at it upright. Even their repair numbers, which were stamped on the opposite side of the plate, were stamped "upside down" as the plate was rotated in their stamping machine. So moving the serial to the upper part of the plate was presumably not just a simple thing they would have done for some of their production.

But even if we remove any technical concerns, what reason would they have had for marking some razors they were exporting like their own and others completely differently? If the use of the US patent date is the only real thing that has you linking these with Boston, I would still hold back there. The UK requirements seem to always have needed both the number and date -- even in abbreviated form -- but that seems not to have been the case everywhere. If marking the local patent information wasn't required in a given market they may have preferred marking the later US date than the earlier local ones to give the impression of a longer protection period where it might not have been strictly in violation of any laws. And we still don't have even a guess as to the significance of the "N" at the end of the inscription.

In the interests of presenting a balanced view, I should say that there are also inconsistencies in the H series. Our current theories are that the H series was either made in Leicester for the German market (Porter) or the red examples were made in Berlin and the black examples made in Leicester for the German market (me).

That actually wasn't my suggestion. What I'd thrown out originally was "G" for Germany and "H" maybe for Austria-Hungary, which was a large (mostly) unified country at the time. I think it's pretty clear now that the "G" series was used for Pocket Editions and that any collision with earlier Boston-made "G" series gold razors is completely unrelated. Shifting the "H" series to Germany was other folks after the fact, and I've never really been comfortable with it.

Frankly, I don't know quite what to make of the "H" series. As you said, if any number of them were made in Berlin why have we seen none of them turn up in Germany at all? In fairness, we've seen relatively few other examples turn up in Germany either, so we may just be dealing with an insufficient sample.

A third inconsistency exists with Porter's theory in that H003530 has the GinD and was found in France. Why would Leicester be marking an H series razor for the German market with the GinD typically associated with the French market F series? It would be more consistent to attribute it to having been made in Berlin for the French market.

Making razors in Germany to meet local working requirements and then exporting them would seem to be pretty bizarre in and of itself. Not impossible, but the basis of both the German and British laws seems to have been meeting some minimum amount of domestic demand with domestic supply. If H003530 was really one of the first few thousand razors made in Berlin, does it not seem strange to you for it to have been exported?

Separately, we haven't really considered it, but what if the "G-in-D" mark was being applied to unmarked sets arriving in France rather at the point of manufacture? I know we've always talked about it as an import requirement, but our info there is fuzzy at best. It's possible that the mark was required at the point of sale of plated goods in France instead. Having the marks applied locally could explain it showing up on razors that may not have been specifically intended for import into France, and might also explain some of the inconsistency we see in those marks, too. It's nearly always on the head of the razor, but it's sometimes on the bottom of the case and very occasionally on the pommel of the handle, too.

Leave us not forget that Britain was sending convicts to America between 1718 and 1775 and only switched to sending them to Australia because of the War of Independence. So what we have here is perhaps a little pot/kettling??:laugh::laugh:

Who knew we could just save ourselves the bloodshed and just wait for them to vote themselves out of the colonies? :001_rolle

Besides, with Ned Kelly wearing both the pot and the kettle there's not much left to work with. :laugh:

A slight stretch, Kellys Directory of Leicester and Rutland lists Gillette Safety Razor Co. in Leicester. The preface of the book is dated August 1908.

As a parallel, first Canadian factory, mentioned in the first Gillette Blade magazine, was set up during 3-4 months.

Not a stretch at all. We've hit on that entry in Kelly's before (here's a current online source for the scans), and we've got other corroborating evidence on the Timeline that they were physically in the site at least by the middle of August that year.

One thing to keep in mind when considering a parallel to Canada, though, is that that first factory was exceedingly small. Not "Paris 1905" small, perhaps, but only 2000 square feet and trying to produce 35 razors a day, in their own words. Still, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they wouldn't have needed much more than a few months to have some amount of production capability in place by the end of 1908.
 
and the "N" suffix shipper that we both picked up on eBay with the remnants of what appeared to be "Made in the United States of America".

I wanted to address this one separately, since I've pulled down all of the original auction photos to post here, too. This 460B set was just recently sold and includes a double-diamond marked razor. The seller was in France and the razor's serial appears to be either an "F" or an "E" followed by "311???." The label on the top of the carton is the British version of the packaging, but bottom of the carton had an ink-stamped inscription that appeared to show "...ed States of America" underneath a large "GILLETTE."

My own take on this set is that I lean more towards the serial number looking like "F311???" and I wonder if the inscription on the bottom wouldn't have originally read "Case made in United States of America," as an early example of something we have precedence for later. There's certainly enough room there in the layout of what's left of the stamping for that to be correct.

The case having the later style of inscription with the patent numbers instead of dates would suggest that the set was from sometime later in the ABC sets' timeline, assuming that the inscriptions on both these cases and the Pocket Editions changed in relative sync which I think is a pretty safe one.

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R

romsitsa

Hello,

nice 460 set with an interesting patch, has an arrow logo instead of the line (maybe missmatched patch was glued on)

This US/Canadian pocket edition of Sled Dog has a line logo with MiUSA (maybe the machine skipped the feathers and arrowhead)
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/330284-Interesting-Pocket-Edition?p=4825037#post4825037

This is a Brit. Pat. Single ring with date code A 500308 on it's inner barrel, making it an early US manufacture for England. The box has the line logo (and the British licence on the bottom), almost a year earlier then the British trademarking took place. Or maybe the box is a missmatch.

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Also there is a very interesting Single ring on Ebay. It's a metal cased 460 (line patch, patent numbers in the back) with metal blade banks. The razor has Brit. Pat on the lower outer handle and no other stamps. It should be stamped on the comb, but nothing is visible, contacted the seller and he reassured me there is nothing on the cap or inner tube.

Browsed through the Wiki looking for stamp types.
The letters E, F, H come in serif and sans serif versions, I made a new coulumn for them, also for logos used on the cases.
The last column is for the width of the diamond sramps, as my two double stamped Sr-s have differently sized Diamonds.
The nd stands for no data, used this where I was unsure, or the pictures are gone from original posts.

Last but not least, collected some British pocket editions, not too many, there is only one with a case listing patent numbers instead of dates.

Full Serial NumberPatent Stamp TypeLocation of Patent StampLocation of Serial StampDiamond LogoGD StampLocation FoundCase logotypefaceDiamond logo size
E111857BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoNoCanadandsans serif
E115098BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoStarHungaryndsans serif
E116149BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopStarndnd
F018558BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoNoUKscript, brit patserif
F021233BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoYesndnd
H000882BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoNoUKndsans serif
H003530BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoYesFrancearrow, metalsans serif
H005459BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoNoUKmetalnd
H014236BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoNoUKline, metalnd
H014279BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopNoNoUKline, metalnd
H028400BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate TopDoubleStarline, metalsans serif
TC436331BR.PAT.No.28763.02Outer BarrelGuard Plate Topndserif
E 92026PAT.NOV.15.04.NOuter BarrelGuard Plate TopSquareSpainarrowsans serif
E110056PAT.NOV.15.04.NOuter BarrelGuard Plate TopSquarearrowsans serif
E111461PAT.NOV.15.04.NOuter BarrelGuard Plate TopYes/Square?Franceline, brit patnd
E116205PAT.NOV.15.04.NOuter BarrelGuard Plate TopOne under CapSquareFrancescriptsans serif
F 59205PAT.NOV.15.04.NOuter BarrelGuard Plate TopNoSquarescriptsans serif
F165374PAT.NOV.15.04.NOuter BarrelGuard Plate TopNoSquareline, brit patsans serif
E156644BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoUKlinend
E187037BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoAustraliandnd
E202419BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoublelineserif
E202482BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoublendserif
E203238BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoublend, brit patnd
E244863BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNond, brit patnd
E216343BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoUKline, brit patserif
E239300BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoUKndserif
E266131BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelUKline, brit pat mixed casemaybe serif
E291160BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoFrancendserifTop cap:15 mm, Comb: 18 mm
E295135BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleUKlinend
F206586NoneNoneOuter BarrelDoubleSquareFranceline, brit patserif
H060192BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoEnglandnd
H072604BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoEnglandndnd
H084520BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleNoEnglandndnd
H094???BR.PAT.No.28763.02Inner BarrelOuter BarrelDoublendserif
F223827PAT.NOV.15.04 ?Inner BarrelOuter BarrelSquarendnd
F251016PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquarebrit patnd
F259841PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareGermanyndsans serif
F265342PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareGermanyndnd
F305355PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareline, metalnd
F312365PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareline, brit patserif
F322086PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareItalynd
F326528PAT.NOV.15.04 ?Inner BarrelOuter BarrelYes ?nd
F330687PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareItalyline, brit patserif
F359687PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquareline, brit patsans serifTop cap:18 mm, Comb: 18 mm
F363109PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquarend
F380113PAT.NOV.15.04.NInner BarrelOuter BarrelDoubleSquarescriptnd
G008133nonenonenonendYesndserif
G012999nonenonenoneDoubleYesline, Pocket edition with patent dates, Brit. Pat.serif
G024867nonenonenoneDoublenoline, Pocket edition with patent dates, Brit. Pat.serif
G051727nonenonenoneDoublenoline, Pocket edition with patent dates, Brit. Pat.nd
G064257nonenonenoneDoublenoline, Pocket edition with patent dates, Brit. Pat.serif
G072457nonenonenoneDoubleYesFranceline, Pocket edition with patent nrs.serifTop cap:15 mm, Comb: 15 mm



Adam
 
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R

romsitsa

Only the last one is mine, the others are from the internet, just had to crop the link column as there are links to other razor related sites. Sorry ;)

Adam
 
The Working Clause coming into effect is a much stronger argument for Gillette starting some amount of production in the later part of 1908 than the whole "going concern" line. Still, even that only suggests the start of the period that Gillette's patents would have been at risk. However, I do think it's reasonable to guess that they probably had some amount of production happening in England during the year. Just what that was and how extensive it was is certainly unclear at this point.
From the IRC:
"On the 29th Sept. 1908 a company named the Gillette Safety Razor Co. of England, Ld. (hereinafter called the English company), of 17, Holborn Viaduct, was registered in London under the Companies Acts, and by an agreement dated September 30, 1908, it purchased from the Boston company as from June 30, 1908, as a going concern, (1) the goodwill of the business; (2) the leasehold premises at 17, Holborn Viaduct, and Leicester, (3.) all plant, machinery, stock-in-trade, etc., (4.) the benefit of all pending contracts, (5.) all other property except the British Letters Patent of the English branch of the Boston company."

I find it significant that the agreement backdated the purchase by 3 months and nominated that the plant and machinery were a "going concern" at that date. I think this was for the benefit of the government's patent requirements. JMO.

From other instances, we know that Gillette was perfectly happy referring to relatively small operations as "factories." Certainly any operation actually in London proper that they'd have been calling a "factory" in 1908, as in that Christmas ad posted previously, wouldn't have been anything more serious than their first Paris "factory" -- a few blade sharpening machines working imported blanks and some packaging staff in a room or two of their offices at either the Minories or Holborn Viaduct. Alternatively, it could be that they just figured no one would know where Leicester was and just used London as the location with more cachet.
The latter would be my opinion.

If the use of the US patent date is the only real thing that has you linking these with Boston, I would still hold back there.

Leicester was established to fill European backorders and needed to satisfy the British patent deadline. Are you suggesting that instead of useing the British patent for local manufacture someone decided to also produce some razors locally with a modified US patent and even use the US leading blank protocol for them? For what purpose? I would think it more likely that Boston was helping out with the order backlog but wanting to distinguish production for Europe from production for the US. I was under the impression that the red protocol in Europe actually preceded the protocol change in Boston, but I may be incorrect in that assumption?
Sometime earlier in this thread Mike came up with the suggestion that the "N" suffixed razor may have been made at Boston or in Canada. We both disagreed with that conjecture at the time but I have reconsidered and now am in favour of Mike's speculation.

Shifting the "H" series to Germany was other folks after the fact, and I've never really been comfortable with it.

Frankly, I don't know quite what to make of the "H" series. As you said, if any number of them were made in Berlin why have we seen none of them turn up in Germany at all? In fairness, we've seen relatively few other examples turn up in Germany either, so we may just be dealing with an insufficient sample.

I'm not altogether comfortable with it either but our wiki seems to point to 3 series running in parallel, and if we deduce that the F series, with the predominance of G in Square markings, appears to be a likely candidate for made in France or for the French market, then we have 2 series to allocate. While 10 razors in the H series is a small sample the odds would seem to be on the side of at least one being found in the country of manufacture. The only other possibility that I can think of is that the Inspection Team that Marshall says was put in place for German manufacture were located in Britain and the razors were not returned to Germany, but that doesn't make any sense on any level.

Making razors in Germany to meet local working requirements and then exporting them would seem to be pretty bizarre in and of itself. Not impossible, but the basis of both the German and British laws seems to have been meeting some minimum amount of domestic demand with domestic supply. If H003530 was really one of the first few thousand razors made in Berlin, does it not seem strange to you for it to have been exported?

No, it doesn't seem strange that Germany would be assisting in filling orders for France as it is in Europe. I would see it as more strange than Leicester would use and H instead of an F if F did in fact mean made for the French market.


I wanted to address this one separately, since I've pulled down all of the original auction photos to post here, too. This 460B set was just recently sold and includes a double-diamond marked razor. The seller was in France and the razor's serial appears to be either an "F" or an "E" followed by "311???." The label on the top of the carton is the British version of the packaging, but bottom of the carton had an ink-stamped inscription that appeared to show "...ed States of America" underneath a large "GILLETTE."

My own take on this set is that I lean more towards the serial number looking like "F311???" and I wonder if the inscription on the bottom wouldn't have originally read "Case made in United States of America," as an early example of something we have precedence for later. There's certainly enough room there in the layout of what's left of the stamping for that to be correct.

This is the reply that I had from that vendor:

Hello,
postal rate for Australia € 25.
For me the letter F followed by 311 76
cordially

Just the case made in the US?......Really?......Hmmm....What is your expression?..."slicing this one exceedingly finely" ??:huh::biggrin1:

Cheers, George
 
R

romsitsa

Porters idea to compare pocket edition case patents with 460s led to the following:
Four rivets instead of a latch cases appeared first in ads from 1910 (maybe even 1909), vesta type blade banks dissapeared in 1914 ads.
ABC Pocket cases came with patent dates, patent dates with British patent number added in a rectangle or patent numbers.
The first ABC case having the Brit. Pat. rectangle came from 1911 (owner said it, I didn't see the serial number).
Porters case with patent numbers instead of dates comes from 1912.
But there are cases with date codes form 1911 and 1912.
I suspect the sets with British patents added and with patent numbers instead of patent dates were produced for Europe or England and were produced parallel with the date coded ones.
Question is wether these cases were of British or US manufacture. Earlier I thought the whole sets were British production, but thinking over it again I think at least the cases and banks came from the US.

And here is a US advert from 1911 found on Achims site, I think a British 460 was mixed in by accident (upper left corner)
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It looks like British companies used the line logo till the New line was introduced. Pic from GilletteUK facebook site.
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Adam
 
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R

romsitsa

You may be right Adam but to me it looks like an illustrated and descriptive booklet as described in to Hoffnung ad. The perculiar thing about the ad is its nomination of the razors as "British made". I don't quite understand your two suggested possiblities.

As far as we can ascertain Leicester was closed by 1915, possibly earlier. I suppose it could be considered that E110056 could be old stock, but the serial number places it in the early Leicester production rather than the later. It has the same box markings E111461 and the lack of Logo marking on the razor, as did the other examples from this time. The Boston E series from 1917 had the diamond logo with the arrow and " Made in the USA" stamped on them. See this one for instance:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old%20Type/1917%20Old%20Type%20460-B.JPG

The other thing I have noticed is the difference in the shape of the "1" on the PAT.NOV.15.04.N to the BR.PAT.No.28763.02.

These two are PAT.NOV.15.04.N

These have the
BR.PAT.No.28763.02.


Here is a shipper from a PAT.NOV.15.04.N E-series razor with the double logo/line that recently sold on eBay.

That printing looks suspiciously like the remnants of "Made in the United States of America".

I think we have reached the stage where we need to serious consideration as to whether the
PAT.NOV.15.04.N were actually all made in Boston to supplement Leicester's production and to supply the French market?

Cheers, George


Hello George,

1917 US E serials having the MiUSA stamps is a hard fact, but the thing I was was thinking about, how did a Single ring intended for the British or European market look like after 1915? Do we have any example that can be more or less precisely dated?

The British company advertised sets as British made (maybe they had to do it to keep their British patent) up to 1919 but finding Made in USA on the case and razor would have been quite contradictionary imho.

Further, to protect their British patent and business of the trade office, they had to prove somehow that they were manufacturing on the British isles even after the closure of Leicester. At least I think the regulation of 1907 was still in full force after 1915 as I couldn't find any change in the British patent law.
Now it becomes very strechy, but in my opinion producing razors with British markings in the US would have been a better solution than losing their British patent?


Adam
 
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Hello George,

1917 US E serials having the MiUSA stamps is a hard fact, but the thing I was was thinking about, how did a Single ring intended for the British or European market look like after 1915? Do we have any example that can be more or less precisely dated?

The British company advertised sets as British made (maybe they had to do it to keep their British patent) up to 1919 but finding Made in USA on the case and razor would have been quite contradictionary imho.

Further, to protect their British patent and business of the trade office, they had to prove somehow that they were manufacturing on the British isles even after the closure of Leicester. At least I think the regulation of 1907 was still in full force after 1915 as I couldn't find any change in the British patent law.
Now it becomes very strechy, but in my opinion producing razors with British markings in the US would have been a better solution than losing their British patent?
Adam

Adam, my short answer is that I don't really know, but Porter will probably be able to answer your questions. I agree with Porter's suggestion that there may have been a stockpile of British patented razors at Leicester that may have been distributed and sold 1915-17 but I would think that after Leicester ceased production the British E, F and H series would have finished and production would have been picked up by Boston and been marked with the US patent until production resumed at Slough around 1921.

Cheers, George
 
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Just the case made in the US?......Really?......Hmmm....What is your expression?..."slicing this one exceedingly finely" ??:huh::biggrin1:

Not at all. During the New Improved and NEW eras it was officially marked on sets assembled that way -- see just a couple of examples here and here -- and it's not at all a stretch that they would have started with something like an ink stamp for the same purpose during exactly the same sort of time frame that marking manufacture origins was becoming necessary elsewhere.

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Porters case with patent numbers instead of dates comes from 1912.

Which set are you talking about here, Adam?

Question is wether these cases were of British or US manufacture. Earlier I thought the whole sets were British production, but thinking over it again I think at least the cases and banks came from the US.

Marshall specifically mentions that Boston provided at least the initial razor and blade cases for Leicester. I'd guess that if they transitioned to a local supply of anything it'd have been the leather cases. The metal cases, like the one above and the Pocket Edition cases, and the blade cases probably kept coming from Boston, from what we're seeing.

It looks like British companies used the line logo till the New line was introduced. Pic from GilletteUK facebook site.

That's what I found too. The New Improved material from Slough, like the Tuckaway packaging above, still didn't carry the arrow. There's also this second UK trademark filing from Jan 10, 1929 of the traditional diamond and arrow mark:

$GB50000000000498892.jpg
 
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Not at all. During the New Improved and NEW eras it was officially marked on sets assembled that way -- see just a couple of examples here and here -- and it's not at all a stretch that they would have started with something like an ink stamp for the same purpose during exactly the same sort of time frame that marking manufacture origins was becoming necessary elsewhere.

:bored::blushing: :blush: I stand corrected.

That's what I found too. The New Improved material from Slough, like the Tuckaway packaging above, still didn't carry the arrow. There's also this second UK trademark filing from Jan 10, 1929 of the traditional diamond and arrow mark:

That facebook photo is a bit of a mixed bag. Line logo on the gable, arrow logo on the door on the left and the truck.

Cheers, George
 
Porters case with patent numbers instead of dates comes from 1912.

Which set are you talking about here, Adam?

Ah, I think I've answered my own question. You're probably talking about this thread. Yes, 1912 seems to be the transitional year where the patent numbers started showing up in place of the patent dates, based on the US series examples.

The British company advertised sets as British made (maybe they had to do it to keep their British patent) up to 1919 but finding Made in USA on the case and razor would have been quite contradictionary imho.

But they didn't have to be selling newly made stock. If they'd taken a large enough shipment up front they could have been selling through razors that were made in Leicester before it's shuttering for years after.

Further, to protect their British patent and business of the trade office, they had to prove somehow that they were manufacturing on the British isles even after the closure of Leicester. At least I think the regulation of 1907 was still in full force after 1915 as I couldn't find any change in the British patent law.

I actually just found this reference yesterday from Greater New York: The Bulletin of the Merchants' Association of New York on Jan 24, 1916 that indicates that the British government did suspend the Working Clause starting sometime close to that date for the remainder of the war and for six months after:

 
R

romsitsa

Thank you guys. Porter, based on you finding Gillette had to "survive" without working on their patent in England from mid 1919 till the New razor was introduced and maybe a few months in 1915-16. This makes sense.

About old stock of Leicester, the Gillette v Inland Revenue papers state:
"When the USA company closed its business in the United Kingdom it had at the factory at Leicester a stock of goods valued at valued at 56,000l. The appellant company by arrangement was allowed to treat this stock as goods supplied under the terms of the last-mentioned agreement."

This sum could cover 40-50 000 razors?, enough for 1915-16, till the working clause was suspended.

Adam
 
R

romsitsa

Hello,

I sense something really interesting unfolding. Achim posted some star stamped pocket sets that were discussed in detail here:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-stamped-star-on-Gillette-Old-Type-base-plate

Imho these G series combs are British combs, not US (typeface and use of zeroes) so are the ball end handles missmatches or what is going on?
It looks like the line logo appeared somewhere between G004349 and G007401?

The third comb with both star and GinD mark is quite troublesome for me. Every GinD and star marking is in the very same spot on all razors (like a jig was used to secure the plate while stamping) this would lean toward a factory application, bit then why both stamps on one comb?
I know there are some other interesting locations for GinD marks like pomels or middle of cases but these are rare.

Another minor observation of mine, the GinD (not D in square) marking changed over time, but I don't have a big enough sample to date it.
Ball ends and Single rings with MinUSA and Gillette diamond (20ies) have the GinD parallel to the Gillette diamond, while earlier examples have it vertical.

Adam
 
Hello, gentlemen.

I have been delivered another Brit Pat SR razor... and you are to blame...:laugh:

As always, you will surely excuse the poor pics and the fact that the razor is not cleaned up yet (no time at all!). Adam, still searching for a caliper...

Serial number E1944038
Located on outer barrel
Patent stamp on top of inner barrel BR. PAT. No. 28763.02
Diamond logo double, one on underside of cap, another on upperside bladeplate
No G in D stamp

Case has Limited License information
Found in UK


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