First time at the stone today. Now the real questions come out!

[jrp316]

I'd recommend running the sharpie test anyway to have a full edge assessment and see how severe the warp is. It may well affect more of the edge beyond what is visible. When you hold the razor on the stone, are you applying pressure? On some full or extra hollow straights, pressure can cause the edge to distort slightly and raise up from the hone as a result. It likely is a warp though, which is common on vintage razors. The rolling X is your friend in these cases.

Something else to consider: some hones aren't as flat when they're dry as when they've been soaked for a while. I read about that some time ago and I believe King hones were amongst the ones mentioned. I don't think the difference would be enough to visibly see part of the razor raising up from the hone, but it'd be worth a look. Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge in that area will come along, since I'm nowhere near an expert on that subject.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Your first mistake is in thinking that setting the bevel would be easy.

LOL! +1!

Even a slight warp can be a challenge.

+1 more! + several, actually!

Run the King on the DMT in figure 8 patterns regularly to keep the flatness true.

If you use a DMT, instead of good old dependable sandpaper.

The King is a funny stone, it feels grittier than it really is IMO. It is not 'fast'.

+1 but not exactly a slow stone, either. Well, slow compared to a Chosera or DMT1200. Okay, I guess it is slow, at that.

You need to use pressure, but not so much that you flex the blade.
If you flex the blade - you'll lift the edge up.

+1 or even make a fin edge, carried to extreme. Luckily it is easily honed off in the next stage if you don't use heavy pressure

Try to imagine the amount of pressure you'd use to erase a line with a pencil.
Like - a #2 pencil on standard notebook paper where you're not going to pil the paper up or deform the eraser.

+1 that's about right for bevel setting. Good comparison.

If you use X strokes, you can map the scratch pattern to see if you're hitting along the entire bevel.

Or hone with the heel leading.

If you're honing, and you're hitting the entire bevel, you are removing metal. Believe that.
The trick is to go until it's done.

+ 1,000,000, maybe more! A common mistake, counting laps and figuring "that MUST be good enough!"

Sharpie tests can help if you can't see the scratch pattern clearly.

+1. One of the most valuable tests.

Wow... lots of points out of that post.

 

[blackhhawk]

Ok so I managed to get the razor to shave arm hair now. Nowhere near passing an HHT but with my little experience in this, those indicators are the only ones I really know. The thumb pad test too - I have it grabbing. Worked on the coti for a while but it's getting way too late. I will have to get back to this. Thanks for the help everyone, seriously. Everyone here is awesome.

 

[Gamma]

Keep at it, don't let the learning curve get frustrating. Enjoy the process, take breaks when needed.
Youre doing great - soon enough you'll be telling newcomers how to set bevels.

 

[oakeshott]

Keep at it, don't let the learning curve get frustrating. Enjoy the process, take breaks when needed.
Youre doing great - soon enough you'll be telling newcomers how to set bevels.

Second this. Took me 21 hours of honing and 3 or 4 different razors before i set my first bevel. Honing is like walking into a dark room filled with furniture and only portions of the room get lit as you stumble, slowly around.

 

[blackhhawk]

Oh wow okay. It sounds like I'm right on track then. Once I kind of figured out how to roll the blade so I can work with the warp, it sharpened up. Now it's just working with the coti and figuring out how to make it pass the HHT.

 

[jrp316]

Bevel setting is the most difficult part of honing...and the most essential. Once you've got it set, the rest is just refining what you already have. For me, the HHT doesn't work so good with either mine or my wife's hair (both of us have curly hair), so I just go with the arm/leg hair shave test. If it's popping hair very easily and with no effort across the entire edge, I consider the bevel set and move on to the refining stages. YMMV. Good on you for learning the rolling X; that's a pretty advanced honing stroke, especially for your first time out. On a coticule too, no less. You'll be honing them up with the masters before long at that rate.

 

[jpcwon]

Bevel setting is the most difficult part of honing...and the most essential. Once you've got it set, the rest is just refining what you already have. For me, the HHT doesn't work so good with either mine or my wife's hair (both of us have curly hair), so I just go with the arm/leg hair shave test. If it's popping hair very easily and with no effort across the entire edge, I consider the bevel set and move on to the refining stages. YMMV. Good on you for learning the rolling X; that's a pretty advanced honing stroke, especially for your first time out. On a coticule too, no less. You'll be honing them up with the masters before long at that rate.

+1!!

 

[blackhhawk]

Thanks guys. Now I just have to get the slurry thing right. I'm having trouble keeping the slurry wet and also keeping it on the stone. I feel like once I build it as soon as I do some strokes the slurry has collected on the blade and possibly dried or I pushed it off the stone.

Also, I did an HHT on my newest razor that just came in from TSS and its not passing the HHT every time. With good stropping I have it popping hairs but I feel like it should be sharper. Can I run the razor on just water and get it back to popping hairs easily? Should I hit the balsa strop?

 

[Kentos]

Don't get too hung up on the HHT for now. I would attempt the test, note how the hair reacted, then take a shave. Eventually you will be able to correlate HHT behavior with shave quality. Or not the HHT is a very YMMV thing.

 

[jrp316]

If the TSS razor hasn't been used yet, I'd recommend giving it a test shave before you consider a touch up on it. The HHT, TPT, TNT and the arm hair test are good tests to gauge your progress through honing, but the real acid test for a shave ready razor is the shave test.

As for the slurry, it probably isn't drying up so much as you may be losing it off the side or end of the hone. You might try letting the blade's slurry accumulation run back onto the stone when you get to the end of your stroke; stopping short of the end of the hone might help too. A spray bottle of water is useful for keeping the hone wet.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thanks guys. Now I just have to get the slurry thing right. I'm having trouble keeping the slurry wet and also keeping it on the stone. I feel like once I build it as soon as I do some strokes the slurry has collected on the blade and possibly dried or I pushed it off the stone.

Also, I did an HHT on my newest razor that just came in from TSS and its not passing the HHT every time. With good stropping I have it popping hairs but I feel like it should be sharper. Can I run the razor on just water and get it back to popping hairs easily? Should I hit the balsa strop?

Get a small spray bottle and keep some water in it. When you need to dilute the slurry, just spray a little water. Some guys keep a bowl of water, and just drip a few drops on as needed, with their fingers. You can spray your razor with water and let it wash the slurry back onto the stone. Whatevah. This is kinda like tying your shoes. Soon you will do it without a whole lot of thinking about it. But you will be doing it your way.

A coticule under running water is pretty good for touchup honing. Or a coticule with lather on it is better, actually.

ANY time is a good time for the pasted balsa. Depending on what you pasted it with, of course. I like .1u diamond and I strop on it after every shave.

 

[blackhhawk]

Thanks slash. My problem with that was how the slurry kept getting pushed off the stone, or collected on the razor, or dried out. I had to keep raising a new slurry, so it was kind of hard to keep doing that while still diluting. Not sure if my stone is too small for this, or its just my lack of experience. I was thinking of ordering a bigger stone soon anyway and keeping this little one for warped razors and such.

As far as the touch ups go, I found an answer here: http://coticule.be/edge-maintenance.html

I then proceeded to do what it says, and I managed to get my edge sharper. I'm popping hairs a lot better now. I ran the stone under water and then rubbed my slurry stone on it back and forth once... just to barely get a mist going. Did two sets of 30 half strokes like it said, then rinsed everything and did a set of 30 on just water, then proceeded to x strokes. This wasn't enough at first, so I went back and did it again and then again once more after that (I did a HHT between each) but I sort of did it my own way because one part of the edge wasn't as sharp as another.

 

[blackhhawk]

If the TSS razor hasn't been used yet, I'd recommend giving it a test shave before you consider a touch up on it. The HHT, TPT, TNT and the arm hair test are good tests to gauge your progress through honing, but the real acid test for a shave ready razor is the shave test.

As for the slurry, it probably isn't drying up so much as you may be losing it off the side or end of the hone. You might try letting the blade's slurry accumulation run back onto the stone when you get to the end of your stroke; stopping short of the end of the hone might help too. A spray bottle of water is useful for keeping the hone wet.

I've been using it for about a week now. You're right, most of it was getting pushed off the stone. Eventually, I started to stop and tap the spine on the hone and try and get the slurry off the blade. I guess with some more practice I will be able to handle it more efficiently.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thanks slash. My problem with that was how the slurry kept getting pushed off the stone, or collected on the razor, or dried out. I had to keep raising a new slurry, so it was kind of hard to keep doing that while still diluting. Not sure if my stone is too small for this, or its just my lack of experience. I was thinking of ordering a bigger stone soon anyway and keeping this little one for warped razors and such.

As far as the touch ups go, I found an answer here: http://coticule.be/edge-maintenance.html

I then proceeded to do what it says, and I managed to get my edge sharper. I'm popping hairs a lot better now. I ran the stone under water and then rubbed my slurry stone on it back and forth once... just to barely get a mist going. Did two sets of 30 half strokes like it said, then rinsed everything and did a set of 30 on just water, then proceeded to x strokes. This wasn't enough at first, so I went back and did it again and then again once more after that (I did a HHT between each) but I sort of did it my own way because one part of the edge wasn't as sharp as another.

Aw I should have thought of that. You have a small stone! Yeah a small stone can be awkward to learn on. And a big one is expensive. But a lot of guys turn out very nice edges with small or meadium size coticules. So if you keep at it you will get it together. But there is nothing like a nice 70mm wide x 200mm long "big yella" for pure honing enjoyment. Money no object? Get a big monster one. Money tight? try to get something at least 60mm wide or a really big bout. It will be much easier. Your small one will still come in handy at times.

Me, I use film now.

 

[blackhhawk]

A 40x200 is in my price range. I almost bought one last night but decided to hold off. Is it not worth the length if I'm not getting something wider? My current stone is 40 mm wide and about 5 inches long.

 

[Slash McCoy]

A 40x200 is in my price range. I almost bought one last night but decided to hold off. Is it not worth the length if I'm not getting something wider? My current stone is 40 mm wide and about 5 inches long.

For me, that is way too small. For you? YMMV. I like to have the entire edge on the stone at once. That is not a necessity but I find it makes it easier for ME to get the best possible edge. My old one was a nearly rectangular bout, just one corner lopped off. The biggest rectangular area was 2-3/4" wide (about 70mm I think) x 6-3/4" long and the overall length of the stone was a hair over 8" with the end width being a little over 2". I found it quite adequate and it probably spoiled me against narrower coticules in particular. 40mm is only about an inch and a half or a little more. wide enough for many coticule-ists but frustrating for others including me.

You already have a 40mm stone, so my recommendation, and you will get others saying just the opposite, is to save up and get a nice 70mm x 8" natural or glued combo. Your small stone will make a dandy slurry stone. A really big bout would be worth considering, too. There is a premium on rectangular stones so you get more real estate with bouts, generally.

A used stone from a seller who actually honed razors on it could be a good deal, especially since every coti is different to some degree and the seller can tell you a lot about the stone if he actually honed on it a lot and knows what he is talking about. Buying one brand new, sure, you know what vein it is from, but that just doesn't tell the whole story.

If you just want something to hone on right now, and don't have a lot of cash to play with, there is always film. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it?highlight=lapping+film+try+it. And you should be able to get a pretty good edge your first try, and absolutely wonderful edges after just a few blades.

 

[blackhhawk]

I'm wondering if a bigger stone is even necessary or it's just me wanting more stuff. I mean really, the stone is on the smaller end of the spectrum but its not THAT small. Bigger would be nice I guess, but if I'm not honing razors for others and just doing my own stuff it might not be a big deal.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I'm wondering if a bigger stone is even necessary or it's just me wanting more stuff. I mean really, the stone is on the smaller end of the spectrum but its not THAT small. Bigger would be nice I guess, but if I'm not honing razors for others and just doing my own stuff it might not be a big deal.

You are not alone. Lots of guys are okay with small coticules. YMMV. Just know that the big ones are out there. And they are sweeeeet to hone on.

If it's the money, there is always lapping film. Super cheap and as big as you want. Well, up to 13" anyway.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it?highlight=lapping+film+try+it

 

[blackhhawk]

So I ended up setting the bevel on my other razor with the Coti and a real thick slurry. Trying on a different one now with just the king. It wont get sharp. I don't understand. Is the stone just THAT slow?? So slow I need to sit there for an hour or more doing x strokes or half strokes? I feel like I'm going to hone off the spine. Is there some trick or touch you need to give the razor so it takes an edge sharp enough to take off arm hairs? This razor is flat, no smile, perfect for a beginner to hone. No curveballs. I tried circles than x strokes, little pressure. Circles and x strokes with pressure. Half strokes on each side followed by x stokes both with and without pressure. just X strokes with and without pressure... attemped all of these for about 2 hours. I don't know what it is that I'm not doing right but this just isn't working.