Well, if it's a violation of the terms of use, then it's certainly foul. Is it a violation to end an auction early with an BIN offer that wasn't published?
Do you school hapless eBay sellers when they have something valuable and don't know?
- Thread starter _MementoMori_
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- #22
I don't know... it's probably a gray area. I mean, a seller can state any line of crap for ending an auction early. I'm willing to bet that "To accept a lowball offer" isn't on the drop-down list. And, you know, even if such a transaction doesn't violate ebay rules, it violates the greater rule of common courtesy/gentlemanly behavior. I've always been a big fan of doing unto others as I would have them do unto me.
As was mentioned, someone offers me a very high price for an item I have listed if I will BIN, I am going to do some research very quickly to find out what I am really selling. Who knows, maybe it is worth a lot more, but mayb it is an item what is valuable only to the bidder.
I'll have to answer your question with a question. We would all like to see expected decency and gentlemanly behavior across the board. But if a seller has an auction that starts at $20 for a widget that we recognize is probably worth $300 and several days in, the auction disappears because "his dog accidentally ate the widget", it would seem the seller himself wasn't playing by gentlemen's rules. If he took a questionably unethical or even broke ebay rules by accepting a back door price of $50, is it not fitting and proper that he lost out on a $250 profit as a result of his quick act to profit and not letting the market set the price?
He clearly had no respect for those who may have been following the auction in the first place. That was the initial intent--a 5 day auction that ends at an exact pre-stated time. Everyone played by those expected rules EXCEPT the back door solicitor and the seller himself.
I am trying to understand what your true issue is here. That the item sold for so little that it unfairly impacted the seller or that someone got the razor for a price that you would be willing to pay more for if you had the opportunity. This doesn't sound entirely altruistic as it is clear that you would be willing to underpay for an item at an antique store. While I also dislike the idea of circumventing the rules with an underhanded BIN offer, I have little sympathy for the seller who takes that offer rather than playing by the rules as well. There is an old adage that you can't con an honest man.
In regards to the first part of your original post, I do often inform people when they have things mislabelled. I've given up as of late because I get more rude answers than people who are happy to know it.
Usually I get something like "What makes YOU an expert?" or "I've listed it as what it is, you are free to bid or not".
So now I don't bother. I'd like to think that if I was at a yard sale and an old widow came up and had a mint Toggle in a case that I'd give her a fair price for it. Now there could be a whole new discussion on what a fair price would be, but I'm not going to hijack this thread. However the internet is a shady place and the old widow could be you or I.
As for the changing the auctions to BIN, well those people don't deserve my business. I wouldn't accept it face to face and I won't accept it over the internet. Another auction will come along eventually. Cool heads prevail.
It is a shame that people won't take good advice. But then, I suppose from their point of view, how would they know that you are giving good advice?
If I was running an auction for a widgit for $50 and someone emailed me saying that it was worth $500, I would take that into consideration.
But if the email was "Your widgit is worth more that $50 so I'll offer you $100", I wouldn't know if the person was trying to help me or themselves.
Face to face it would be a different story. The anonymity of the Internet changes my position. (ie. the widow with the Toggle).
In town here, there is an antique store that has a few razors and associated items. I've spoken to the fellow who owns the store and offered some good advice, particularily on the straights. He was very appreciative and I continue to purchase items from him. Recently I bought a vintage Simpson butterscotch handle to restore. It is in wonderful condtion with a nice even butterscotch finish. He's in the business to sell and i'm an interested buyer. He set the price that suited him and I agreed ($8).
Was it worth more? Not to him. He set the price after all. Is it actually worth more on the open market? Well at an auction I would say that it would have gone for more. So, here we are right back at the beginning (I can't sleep the baby's crying). I want the brush. Do I tell him "oh don't sell this to me, put it on Ebay and let me work 3 times as hard to get it with the possibility that I might not win it". Why would I do that?
OK, the wife is up and shooing me away from the computer and back to bed.
I don't know if I helped or not. Food for thought anyway.
Usually I get something like "What makes YOU an expert?" or "I've listed it as what it is, you are free to bid or not".
So now I don't bother. I'd like to think that if I was at a yard sale and an old widow came up and had a mint Toggle in a case that I'd give her a fair price for it. Now there could be a whole new discussion on what a fair price would be, but I'm not going to hijack this thread. However the internet is a shady place and the old widow could be you or I.
As for the changing the auctions to BIN, well those people don't deserve my business. I wouldn't accept it face to face and I won't accept it over the internet. Another auction will come along eventually. Cool heads prevail.
It is a shame that people won't take good advice. But then, I suppose from their point of view, how would they know that you are giving good advice?
If I was running an auction for a widgit for $50 and someone emailed me saying that it was worth $500, I would take that into consideration.
But if the email was "Your widgit is worth more that $50 so I'll offer you $100", I wouldn't know if the person was trying to help me or themselves.
Face to face it would be a different story. The anonymity of the Internet changes my position. (ie. the widow with the Toggle).
In town here, there is an antique store that has a few razors and associated items. I've spoken to the fellow who owns the store and offered some good advice, particularily on the straights. He was very appreciative and I continue to purchase items from him. Recently I bought a vintage Simpson butterscotch handle to restore. It is in wonderful condtion with a nice even butterscotch finish. He's in the business to sell and i'm an interested buyer. He set the price that suited him and I agreed ($8).
Was it worth more? Not to him. He set the price after all. Is it actually worth more on the open market? Well at an auction I would say that it would have gone for more. So, here we are right back at the beginning (I can't sleep the baby's crying). I want the brush. Do I tell him "oh don't sell this to me, put it on Ebay and let me work 3 times as hard to get it with the possibility that I might not win it". Why would I do that?
OK, the wife is up and shooing me away from the computer and back to bed.
I don't know if I helped or not. Food for thought anyway.
A few ex B&B members were expert in this field and proceeded to sell their wares on the BST.
I haven't read all the posts in detail. I'll chime in anyway.
I believe both sellers and buyers should be reasonably well-informed. I've posted several times to sellers to correct errors in their descriptions and basic information about what they were selling. I did that because I figured it was fairer all around.
However, I will and have taken advantage of erroneous postings where (a) it was an item I wanted, (b) the seller wasn't going to receive far less than the item's worth, and (c) the seller wasn't going to have serious regrets.
As an example, one of the finest hats I have was described as "Cavanagh wool fedora". Now I knew Cavanagh didn't make wool hats, only top of the line fur felts, and this one clearly had the "Cavanagh edge" on the brim - an expensive detail. It was a first rate hat and I got it for $140. Maybe worth over $300. The seller was a tack dealer; from the pictures, he wore it while riding but wanted to unload it. I felt that my knowledge of hats was a fair advantage, and he wasn't being taken advantage of unduly. Selling the hat wasn't a major cash stream for him.
I would never end an auction prematurely regardless of eBay's rules, but won't judge others. I can't know their financial situation in most cases and choose to assume they had good reasons.
- Bill
I believe both sellers and buyers should be reasonably well-informed. I've posted several times to sellers to correct errors in their descriptions and basic information about what they were selling. I did that because I figured it was fairer all around.
However, I will and have taken advantage of erroneous postings where (a) it was an item I wanted, (b) the seller wasn't going to receive far less than the item's worth, and (c) the seller wasn't going to have serious regrets.
As an example, one of the finest hats I have was described as "Cavanagh wool fedora". Now I knew Cavanagh didn't make wool hats, only top of the line fur felts, and this one clearly had the "Cavanagh edge" on the brim - an expensive detail. It was a first rate hat and I got it for $140. Maybe worth over $300. The seller was a tack dealer; from the pictures, he wore it while riding but wanted to unload it. I felt that my knowledge of hats was a fair advantage, and he wasn't being taken advantage of unduly. Selling the hat wasn't a major cash stream for him.
I would never end an auction prematurely regardless of eBay's rules, but won't judge others. I can't know their financial situation in most cases and choose to assume they had good reasons.
- Bill
I think it's up to the seller to research and know what they have. If they don't, and they list it under value, that's all on them, not me. I'm the buyer who is looking for a deal, the best price I can find and get. On the other hand, to "protect" newbies, I have contacted sellers who are selling a "Rare Gillette Aristocrat!" when it's actually a flare tip Super Speed in an Aristocrat case. Just my 3 cents.
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- #30
Well, in all honesty, I do suppose it's a bit of both. And you're right, I'm not being entirely altruistic... but partial altruism is better than no altruism at all, I guess. I reason that if a seller has set a price on an item, he/she will be happy to receive it. Even if that price is set low due to ignorance. If a seller post an auction, though, he/she is relying on the honesty and integrity of the market.
And I agree with you about the unscrupulous nature of sellers who agree to these under-the-table offers as well. It's an aspect of this whole thing that I wasn't previously considering for some reason. I appreciated whoever posted "You can't con an honest man."
What you are saying is probably the right way to go about it, but then again we are talking about Ebay and the general population. I feel that if they didnt take time to research what they are trying to sell then why should I, the consumer, educate them? Im not saying I rip people off but if I can get a deal then I am not going to pass it up.
It is what it is.
That might be a little harsh, dont take offense to it.
It is what it is.
That might be a little harsh, dont take offense to it.
Well as a Rule I don't make offers of $ amounts, I have on occasion asked IF they wanted to sell it early because they need a quick sale etc but I let them decide AND set the amount they desire (I've only done this a handful of times). One time the seller was an antique dealer so therefore he should know, he offered to sell me a #58 at a very low price so I didn't complain. Just the other day I offered on an item only because it was local, the seller went a bit mental because he had had so many people trying to buy it outside the auction, so I'd say it's becoming more and more common.
I more often advise sellers if they have mis-represented or incorrectly described a razor (but i don't as a rule tell them it's worth $X), usually this is taken well, sometimes not. I really think it's their job as a seller to research what they are selling, if the Auction states " I am selling my deceased husband estate" I might revise that, it's happened.
Also just recently I advised seller that his fatboy was a slim, he decided that even though he had no idea he didn't really believe me, I had a bit of a laugh
"Not discounting what you have said but there is not too much 'slim' about this razor. It is quite fat being 1cm wide across the bottom and I was told it was a fatboy 4. Under the case has FB6 (Fatboy 6??) ...... I shall go in an do a revision pointing out your information but I am afraid I am not totally convinced. Cheers!"
So very well put for being up in the middle of the night with a crying baby!!
I have a razor on my watchlist (BIN for $89) that has been there for months. A NEW in a case, described as a Rare razor worth $189 (they looked it up.) It was first listed for over $100. I wrote the seller, asking the source of their valuation assessment to determine why the price was where it was. I thought I was polite about it, but she came completely unglued in her response. I subsequently offered an apology, which led to a civil discussion of the razor and its actual value. She emailed more pictures to me, showing a well-worn "copper" cap. Her final comment to me was that "her daughter looked it up, and she knows what she is doing."
I just want to see how long it stays listed without selling!!
+1
You can see the range on ebay.
There are those who do the research, know what it is they are selling, post clear pictures, clean what they are selling and set the price accordingly (over priced a bit usually).
Then the other end that posts vague cell phone pics, haven't bothered to even take the rusty blade out of the still soap encrusted razor and make up some name based on something they've seen or heard.
For me, the first group of folks represent a real auction and the second group is the flea market.
And one thing to keep in mind, how do you all think the majority of ebay sellers obtained what it is they are selling? Especially the flea market type of seller?
And then there is this. If I obtain something dirt cheap - like the double ring I found in a jar of other razors - I'm not actually profiting on it. My heirs might, but I'm not.
-jim
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Nope.
Let them do their own research.
Let them do their own research.
Your philosophy runs counter to everything I have ever seen on Antiques Roadshow. 
And then there is this. If I obtain something dirt cheap - like the double ring I found in a jar of other razors - I'm not actually profiting on it. My heirs might, but I'm not.
-jim
I'm with you here. I love my razors and I really love my Zippo lighters. I will gladly sell a friend a new Zippo I buy. If I got a deal, I'll pass it along, with a little profit for my gas/etc..., but still as a deal(I.E. I have a source whom I can get brand new Zippos from for $5 each still in the box. So I will sell one to a friend for $10, because I goto this market every Saturday, and the time and gas I use I feel are worth about $5). My vintage Zippos? I would almost never sell one. I enjoy looking at them and thinking about their history. But therein lies the rub.
I'll grab almost any vintage Zippo I see if the price is right. I'm not collecting them to resell, but to take them out of a case/box/drawer, and put them on display/take pictures of them to put online, so the world can see. So I don't see them as having a "value" other than what I am willing to pay for them. So if I found a 1933 Zippo, and the person wanted $7 for it, that's what I would pay. Sure, it's probably worth more to some collector, but I'm not going to sell it to them, I'm going to bring it home and put it on my shelf. If I found a Zippo 195, and someone wanted $25 for it, I'd pay them that. Sure, its a solid gold lighter, but if the person wants $25 for it, that is what it is worth to them and that is the amount they want for it. Me? I'll bring it home, polish it a little, take some photos, and then put it on display with it's fellow used/vintage Zippos. And it's the same way with razors. To me, the razor/lighter is worth the price in my head, and yes, I can get a "steal" on them, but I'm the final customer. It's up to the seller to be informed on what they have and what it is worth.
I used to let folks know. I don't anymore.
What seemed to happen was that folks that were selling a mislabeled Toggle jacked up their price, but folks that were selling a mislabeled Tech ignored me.
Caveat Emptor.
I also don't tell the Manager at Macy's that Nordstroms is selling the same product for 30 percent more.
What seemed to happen was that folks that were selling a mislabeled Toggle jacked up their price, but folks that were selling a mislabeled Tech ignored me.
Caveat Emptor.
I also don't tell the Manager at Macy's that Nordstroms is selling the same product for 30 percent more.
Strange lately.
For the stuff I'm interested in, it is either hopelessly out of reach, or my offer (or non-offer, since I leave it to the seller to set the price and only ask if they would consider adding a buy it now) is refused, only to win it at opening bid.
I offered on the aristocrat case, refused, but won at opening bid.
I offered on the double ring, refused, but seller accepted a BIN offer lower than I would have offered.
I offered on a red dot which looked like any other fatboy and came to a price higher than most blurry fatboy pic prices, and higher than the last similarly pictured red dot I had won legitimately at auction.
And I have been bidding low, very low, on previously desirable pieces, and winning some of them.
Makes one wonder if we're really getting deals, or trying to catch a falling knife.
For the stuff I'm interested in, it is either hopelessly out of reach, or my offer (or non-offer, since I leave it to the seller to set the price and only ask if they would consider adding a buy it now) is refused, only to win it at opening bid.
I offered on the aristocrat case, refused, but won at opening bid.
I offered on the double ring, refused, but seller accepted a BIN offer lower than I would have offered.
I offered on a red dot which looked like any other fatboy and came to a price higher than most blurry fatboy pic prices, and higher than the last similarly pictured red dot I had won legitimately at auction.
And I have been bidding low, very low, on previously desirable pieces, and winning some of them.
Makes one wonder if we're really getting deals, or trying to catch a falling knife.
