Disheartened with Cotis, wanna try DMT's & lapping film

[Slash McCoy]

Can anyone point me to a lapping film guide? I'm not ready to give up on what I'm doing yet, but I want to read through it.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it?highlight=lapping+film+try+it

It is 24 pages long and growing. Save it to your puter or print it all out, for reference. Also here is a video

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...emo-on-youtube?highlight=youtube+lapping+film

 

[AjaxLepinski]

Keep in mind that honing (film or rock) is a craft and it takes time to learn. It took me about 3 months before I was happy with my edges so, keep at it. Your skills will improve with time!

Here are a few more suggestions if you don't mind my 2 cents:
Film has a shorter learning curve and you'll be able to keep your razors sharp while you're learning to finish on a coti. +1 to Kentos' suggestion to keep your coti - rocks are cool.
I been setting my bevels on a 1K Norton, followed by 4K Norton, than (8K Norton or, Coti, or 3um film) and I finish with about 5-10 very light laps on 1um film. Film is efficient.
I'm still learning to do the final finish on rock but, a lack of spare time is slowing my progress.
Paco recommends using oil on coticules when finishing. Oil makes rock act as though it were a higher grit and I've had success using Paco's suggestion.
Don't use mineral oil, it's too thick and feels lumpy when honing. Thinner oils like, sewing machine oil work best. Some of the guys use soapy water.

 

[drmatt357]

How about shaving the fuzz off a peach instead?

Isn't that how nectarines are made?

And then BBs:

This one cracked me up!
can someone esplain the Roma Tomatoe test to me as I just can't seem to figure out that HHT thing.

Nevermind, just saw Doc s video.

 

[JGKC9AYC]

What type of a coti do you have? What are the dimensions? You can ship your coti to me with a razor or two and I will hone them for free and send them back as long as you cover all the shipping costs. That way you'll know if it is you or the coti.

It's 7" x 1 5/8"

 

[jpcwon]

Looks like a La Grise....La Grises can be a tricky vein to get consistent results with, so don't give up! I have owned 3 La grises since I started honing with coticules, and I found that all 3 required a good amount of pressure during the beginning stages of honing (as they tend to be soft stones). Then, as you get down towards the end, you'll want to go very light with the pressure. You may even want to try honing under running water as La Grises can sometimes auto-slurry, which can dull your otherwise sharp edge....

 

[JGKC9AYC]

The seller didn't specify if it was a La Grise or not...just that it was a combo BBW/Coti.
I assume a La Grise is an "educated" coti or just another type of coti...no better, no worse?

 

[rockviper]

A combo, eh? Based on the glue line, I'd say it was slate backed, but I've been known to be wrong more than once. Most likely other s can help confirm this or not.

 

[noahpictures]

The seller didn't specify if it was a La Grise or not...just that it was a combo BBW/Coti.
I assume a La Grise is an "educated" coti or just another type of coti...no better, no worse?

La Grise cotis are very good. Do you have a slurry stone?

 

[Doc226]

A combo, eh? Based on the glue line, I'd say it was slate backed, but I've been known to be wrong more than once. Most likely other s can help confirm this or not.

Not a coti expert but they used to line them with BBW in the past, don't know when the change to slate happened

 

[JGKC9AYC]

La Grise cotis are very good. Do you have a slurry stone?

Yeah, I have a slurry stone with it. If you'd imagine a scalene triangle, mine would be 2 1/4" along the base & 1 1/8" up one side.

 

[SliceOfLife]

This thread hurts my head.

So you're saying that you did a few passes on an eBay razor with coti/bbw (very few) and degraded the edge? If so, then either your slurry was monstrously thick, or you are using some serious uneven pressure when honing.

You're saying that your coti is causing too much spine wear? Well first of all, a DMT will make you cry then. Nothing in this world cuts faster than a diamond plate, short of power tools. Also, spine wear (assuming it's not cause by uneven pressure while honing) is an expected and (without tape) unavoidable part of honing razors. It's what keeps the razor's grind angle in spec.


It sounds like you got a razor you are overly concerned about damaging and aren't willing to put in the work on it (and risk damaging it) learning to hone it. The coticule isn't to blame for that. Buy a cheap razor or three and learn on them, then switch to your eBay special. "A few light passes" on bbw and coti won't do much of anything unless one of the mistakes I mentioned above is in play, so you should really reconsider dumping the coticule for plates and films that cut much, much faster.


That said, there's nothing wrong with using a DMT 320 with razors. I used a 220 to remove chips plenty. I do feel that the 600 is a better choice for a beveler. You'll have a LOT of work to do cleaning up the edge if you bevel on a 320. The 1200 works, but a 600/1200 combo benchstone costs the same as a 1200 (less actually when I bought mine), and is obviously a bit faster, so I'd pick it up if you want a DMT beveling setup.


One thing to please keep in mind beveling on a <3" wide stone, I've come across so many razors thrown out of whack by one simple error that it seems almost every honer makes. DO NOT TAKE THE TOE OF THE RAZOR TO THE FAR CORNER. Once the toe is on the stone, you should not be moving much more perpendicular to the lie of the stone. Doing so causes the body of the razor to hang off the stone, GREATLY increased pressure and honing at the toe of the stone, and gives you those razors that require lifting at the end of a stroke to get any stone contact with the toe of the razor because it is so much more worn than the rest of the razor. It seems every razor I pick up anymore, has the toe honed back to oblivion by people who don't understand a proper X stroke. So that's one thing to consider about going with films, you can always have a honing surface that doesn't require an X stroke and completely avoids this mistake.


And to the gent who said that DMT1200 require heavy breakin. That wasn't at all the case for either of mine (have had 2 now, replaced a Duo+ with a standard Duo (didn't like the uninterrrupted patch on the +)), both worked fine shiny and new. True they will break in and become much finer stones (See Seraphims 1200 that if memory serves cuts similar to 3k+ film per his scope pics), but they are perfectly good 1200 stones out of the box. Improving with use and not being good to begin with don't necessarily go together. In fact the ONLY DMT I remember seeing more than one or two reports suggesting break-ins with are the EE (8k) stones. And DMT now breaks those in at the factory according to them. If you don't trust them, a few seconds running a chisel or some other wide piece of steel over it is all you'd need. It's not "wearing down" any diamonds. It's knocking the potential loose ones out so they don't create a "slurry" of diamonds on a DMT, which would be a bad thing.

 

[JGKC9AYC]

I also said I wasn't a honemeister.
So sorry if I've caused you a headache. It wasn't my intention.

 

[smalltank]

Lap your coti til its smooth..black is slate backed...purple is BBW backed...lap the yellow side..put 2 drops of mineral oil..tape the spine and glide the edge lightly on the hone..listen for the "zinging" sound of the blade..this for me tells me the edge is working perfectly...if the side other than yellow is purple..lap it..if its grey or black..leave it...

 

[Seraphim]

Lap your coti til its smooth..black is slate backed...purple is BBW backed...lap the yellow side..put 2 drops of mineral oil..tape the spine and glide the edge lightly on the hone..listen for the "zinging" sound of the blade..this for me tells me the edge is working perfectly...if the side other than yellow is purple..lap it..if its grey or black..leave it...

As Kenny Rogers would say:

You got to know when to lap 'em, know when to leave 'em,
Know when you've got a combo and know when it's slate.
You never let SWMBO see you when you're honin' at the dining room table.
You'll be in for some big trouble as soon as she gets home.

 

[pmaster]

As Kenny Rogers would say:

Thanks a lot, now I can't get the song out of my head!!! lol

 

[Brooksie967]

I'll give a +1 to this thread causing a headache. I've never seen so much gobbly-gook about abrasive paper on a forum before. I'm cool with someone making the choice to do that but to discourage others from using a stone, natural or synthetic is just garbage. There are plenty of reputable vendors that test and sell their stones with a return policy if you're not happy with it. You don't have to know which mine the stone came from, the strata, the color, the descriptors to be able to use it. In all honestly I think it's pretty neat that the Chinese came up with sand paper that snobs here like to call 'film' that can be used to give people great shaving edges.

 

[Seraphim]

Hey, the OP is the guy who brought up lapping film.

 

[Wid]

Hey, the OP is the guy who brought up lapping film.

Film snob LOL

 

[Brooksie967]

You mean he brought up sand paper. I agree. He did.

 

[Seraphim]

Film snob LOL

I prefer to think of myself as more of a lapping film evangelist. Or perhaps a Paul Revere type riding through the dark, sounding the alarm, etc, etc...