Celluloid Rot

[mparker762]

CA does not cure the rot problem. 5 coats anad sstill rust!!!

Have you tried plain old polyurethane?

 

[JBHoren]

Have any of you heard of those opaque yellow/green mottled scales with the gas problem? They are the ones referred to as the-end-of-the-day scales. From what I know, the name came from when colors left over at the end of the working day in a plant were mixed together and used up so as not to waste any material. Although these scales were purposely mixed yellow/green, they were just referred to as "end-of-the-day".

Like these? Fortunately, nary a sign of the dreaded "celluloid rot"!

 

[Steerpike]

Wow! A camoflaged razor! Is that for when you are a sniper, getting a shave while still wearing a Ghillie suit under a scrimnet cover?

 

[The Invisible Edge]

Hell, beans give me gas too - wups, wrong forum..............

 

[Incroyable]

This is a problem that is somewhat common in older fountain pens as well. Some people suggest that the darkening of the celluloid in say, Sheaffer pens is due to the gas emissions of a rubber filling sac:

 

[SavantStrike]

I think I found a way to trigger cell rot.

I have found that soaking in barbicide is a sure fire way to make celluloid scales smell strange for a while. The stink dies down after a while, but depending on the color of the scales, it can be quite acrid at first. I also found that a coat of ballistol can help stop the stink for a few days, but it needs to be re applied frequently. Eventually the scales stop stinking ballistol or not, but it has me wondering...

If any of you guys have a blade with cell rot, can you try giving the scales a shot of ballistol and seeing if it slows the rusting?

 

[LessLemming]

I just saw this thread, and maybe I have an explanaition for the rusting effect.

Celluloid is a remake of natural polymers. Any type of plastic/polymer will eventually "crack down" in time. That means its molecular structure will start to desintigrate. Polymer bonds will get broken and the material will lose its stability. If these Polymers will start to break down often times hydrogen chloride will be formed. HCl is a very stable compound that "likes to be formed" and it is a very strong acid and what most people don´t know at room temperature it is not a liquid. It is a gas.
So your celluloid will with time emitt sour gases that will make your razor rust.
Eventually even the stainless ones.

The formation of HCl is to blame that fire in a house does so much damage.
Not everything inside will get burnt, but the gasous HCl will settle down in every electrical device, and will stay in the air and eventually will settle down in your lungs.

Maybe you could verify this by putting a wet tape of chemical indicator between the scales. The gases will get trapped in the water and the indicator will tell wether it is a sour or an alkaline gas.
Because celluloid being made of Nitrocellulose and Camphor I can not make out a source of chloride. Mybe the Nitro-groups will break down into NH3 wich would be a alkaline gas...

However there is no solution to this. There is no way of stopping these Polymers from crumbling down.
And alkaline and sour gases are extremely hard to keep away from your razor.
I think changing the scales is the only solution to that.

Ah and btw. I could not make out a reason why this should be contagious,
other than the formation of HCl could induce the formation of radicals in other scales. But I am not sure of course.

 

[PhatMan]

LessLemming,

The corroding element generated when celluloid goes bad is nitric acid.

best regards

Russ

 

[LessLemming]

LessLemming,

The corroding element generated when celluloid goes bad is nitric acid.

best regards

Russ

That makes sence! Thank you =)

 

[humber burns]

It seems to me that in order for rust to form it requires oxygen. So if you were only a collector and just had the razors to look at, wouldn't a vacuum seal do the trick? (alternatively you could store them in one.) You guys might want to try that, I'm not 100% on the science but I figure it's worth a try. This wouldn't be a permanent fix but it would greatly increase the life of the razor.

 

[Tony1951]

It seems to me that in order for rust to form it requires oxygen. So if you were only a collector and just had the razors to look at, wouldn't a vacuum seal do the trick? (alternatively you could store them in one.) You guys might want to try that, I'm not 100% on the science but I figure it's worth a try. This wouldn't be a permanent fix but it would greatly increase the life of the razor.

I'm not a chemist, but I think Nitric acid (used in making celluloid) has its own oxygen (HNO3 - three oxygen atoms in every molecule). If this was caused by nitric acid being released, an airtight bag would probably make it worse.

 

[Puerco]

Found THIS ARTICLE on how to stop/slow it down, as I don't have any rotting celluloid scales I'm not able to test it but worth a shot.
Quoted from this article:

Yes, cellulosic plastics are very sensitive to many solvents. But the solvents DO NOT start the degradation reactions. The degradation begins the day the cellulosic plastic is made. There are residual acids present including sulfuric, nitric for cellulose nitrate, acetic for cellulose acetate, etc. These acids are supposed to be washed out of the plastic during its precipitation and neutralized. But a little always remains. Over time, this acid hydrolyses the cellulose "backbone" breaking the polymer chain. When this happens, the esterification acid is also released which further promotes the degradation. In a fairly short time, the plastic can turn into a gooey mess. Once the process gets started, there is little you can do. On the earliest sign of this, usually a slight acid smell (acrid, like vinegar with the cellulose acetate), take the plastic and wash it in warm water. Then soak it overnight in a solution of baking soda. Wash again and dry thoroughly. This will neutralize any surface acids and may prolong the life of the item. To minimize the future decomposition of cellulosics, keep them dry but with air flow around them. Museums have learned the hard way that celluloid and other old plastics, kept under glass still decompose. The moving air tends to remove acid vapors that are formed, and thus slows the reaction.