Bus stop locations for public schools

[AACJ]

We had almost the same problem you do with bus stops in our neighborhood. My daughters had to walk to the end of our street (only 12 homes on it total, six per side) and make a left turn on the main road of our neighborhood. At the next intersection, about 600 feet from our house, was the bus stop. One of the things we were complaining about is there is only one child being picked up who lives right in front of the bus stop. All the other kids come from my street, there are 8 kids on my street who have to walk the whole distance. When we originally contacted the school system they said that bus stops where it does because of the first kid and the other kids are just going to have to walk.

However, the school system has a maximum walking distance to the bus stop which is 300 feet, unless the house is on a cul-de-sac. We live on a cul-de-sac but the distance to the corner is still over the 300 foot max. But, the bus actually makes a U turn at our street. So everyone on our street sent emails and letters to the school system stating that they could still have one stop, even if they moved it to our street intersection since the bus stops there anyway to turn around. The single kid who lives at the original stop would STILL be under the 300 foot maximum AND the kid’s parents could still see him from their front porch.

Additionally, when it was at the other stop, no one on our street could see the bus stop since there are houses in the way. We all brought up to the school system that there are safety issues. First, we couldn't see our kids getting on or off of the bus. Second, the kids would have to walk along the main road in our neighborhood to get to/from the bus stop. Third (and most importantly), since the school system is technically responsible for the kids until they get home, if we can't physically see the bus stop, this puts the school system at risk for a lawsuit.

Since they apparently talked to their lawyers, they ended up moving the bus stop to the end of our street. Now, everyone is within the 300 foot maximum and everyone can see their kids get on and off the bus. The key was the safety aspect, if you send your complaint to the right "risk management" person, you can get it moved.

SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY!!!

(sorry for the book)

 

[bakerbarber]

everyone can see their kids get on and off the bus

Even the first kid where the bus used to stop?

 

[Rockminer]

bakerbarber;

The single kid who lives at the original stop would STILL be under the 300 foot maximum AND the kid’s parents could still see him from their front porch.

I'm going to guess yes.

 

[AACJ]

Yes, the new bus stop has line of sight from EVERYONEs front porch. Although the kids mother isn't happy about it as now it's her kid that has to walk (still under 300 feet I might add), I think it's a good compromise.

 

[Wendy]

I sure would like that type of compromise : ) It is hard for me to accept the bus passing our street and refusing to pick up the kids here.

I have a problem with the heavy traffic on this road. Besides being a main throughway we have an additional entrance that is using this throughway trying to avoid the scrapers, dirt diggers, front loaders, etc.

Up until late October last year, I was cycling everyday including weekends. My children were 3,5 & 9, they along with my husband joined me on my second 30 mile route every Sat & Sun. The 9 yr old rode his own bike, the girls were on tandems, so this makes the 2/10 mile nothing, I have no problems with them walking any distance as long as it is safe, this is not. Yet. If it were up to the kids, they would walk or ride their bike to school the full three miles.

 

[sychodelix]

I'm lucky that I have two special needs kids, so the bus basically has to stop especially for them very close. I would definitely press the safety issue if it all possible and make their lawyers sweat. I've had to fight with my older child's school to get him what he needs for school, so believe me, I understand. When they realize something they are doing could get them into serious legal trouble, especially when there are several other people that also know the situation, it helps a whole lot. Good luck to you!

 

[Rockminer]

The big question is, is it worth the hassle to try and change the stop? Not sure if i asked you or not, but do your neighbors feel as you do? Maybe you could all split any costs associated with what it would take to make a change. If there is any legal reason for the change, I think you would get something done eventually. Even if there is no legal ground to stand on, if you make it clear that you, and neighbors, are not going to let up, then you may get them to make a change just to shut you( and neighbors) up.

 

[DonN]

It's not up to the school system to please and accomodate each parent - the location of the bus stop is set by the school system - now it's up to each parent to do the responsible thing on behalf of their child or children .

when I started kindergarten in 1949 my mother walked with me the first week or so from what I recall to acquaint me with the route - about a half mile - I walked alone from then on as did all my classmates - at that time my parents felt it was a responsible decision to allow me to walk alone - would they feel that way today ? who knows , my point is that parents today need to make judgement calls every day and getting their children to school is just another on a long list.

 

[Wendy]

I'm lucky that I have two special needs kids, so the bus basically has to stop especially for them very close. I would definitely press the safety issue if it all possible and make their lawyers sweat. I've had to fight with my older child's school to get him what he needs for school, so believe me, I understand. When they realize something they are doing could get them into serious legal trouble, especially when there are several other people that also know the situation, it helps a whole lot. Good luck to you!

So you are fully aware of what specialized transportation is. Someone earlier had questioned what type of school would bus a 4 yr old pre-k student anyway. The answer is, every single public school in the US.

I have that luxury with Sadie, the bus comes down into our culdesac now. Obviously when she is in Kindergarten next year the full size bus will not make it down our culdesac, but I assume at her review with the school board next Spring, they will continue specialized transportation for her. If so, my problem may be solved, siblings can ride along if there is room on the bus, Sadie currently only has 4 kids on her bus.

 

[Wendy]

The big question is, is it worth the hassle to try and change the stop? Not sure if i asked you or not, but do your neighbors feel as you do? Maybe you could all split any costs associated with what it would take to make a change. If there is any legal reason for the change, I think you would get something done eventually. Even if there is no legal ground to stand on, if you make it clear that you, and neighbors, are not going to let up, then you may get them to make a change just to shut you( and neighbors) up.

All but one of the neighbors on my street have lodged complaints and appeals. They have their child attending before and after care so they drop their child off at daycare at 6am and pick her up at 5. Also an additional family across the main road have complained looking to utilize the requested stop at the one safe spot, the stop sign the bus stops at anyway.

 

[Wendy]

It's not up to the school system to please and accomodate each parent - the location of the bus stop is set by the school system - now it's up to each parent to do the responsible thing on behalf of their child or children .

when I started kindergarten in 1949 my mother walked with me the first day - about a half mile - I walked alone from then on as did all my classmates - at that time my parents felt it was a responsible decision to allow me to walk alone - would they feel that way today ? who knows , my point is that parents today need to make judgement calls every day and getting their children to school is just another on a long list.

I totally agree with you. I know it is a standard measure used within the entire school district. I walked much further to a bus as a child. Times were a bit different, some will argue they are not different, we just hear about more now. Either way, parents now have the knowledge my parents did not have. It is whether you choose to accept the new reality and let your child be a statistic.

The two police officers on my street told me about a particular house on the back side of my house where a sex offender lives. Well if you look online they are everywhere. I do not pay too much attention to that because I believe too many people are labeled sex offenders, when in fact, it was a willing 16yr old girl and an 18yr old boy. In this case his was not so innocent. It was absolutely disgusting the thing he did to little girls, he has only been home from prison a short time. You would never think anything looking at the family, I assumed it was a college age son visiting often, not a son who is on parole. I think I live in a very safe neighborhood, I am judging based on stereo typing though. Obviously.

 

[DonN]

here's an unrelated story that illustrates the same point in a way - our daughter got married recently out of state - she & her fiance at the time created a website that provided information and links on places to stay for the invited guests - some people were going to drive up the morning of the wedding & asked the happy couple about places where they could "freshen up" before the ceremony since check-in time at their Inn was later - my son-in-law remarked to us that it wasn't up to he & our daughter to figure that out for them - they are adults, accepted the invitation, & it's up to them to solve their dilemma - he was right !!!!

 

[Wendy]

here's an unrelated story that illustrates the same point in a way - our daughter got married recently out of state - she & her fiance at the time created a website that provided information and links on places to stay for the invited guests - some people were going to drive up the morning of the wedding & asked the happy couple about places where they could "freshen up" before the ceremony since check-in time at their Inn was later - my son-in-law remarked to us that it wasn't up to he & our daughter to figure that out for them - they are adults, accepted the invitation, & it's up to them to solve their dilemma - he was right !!!!

Did the people assume your daughter and future son in law had a better knowledge of the area maybe? It would not surprise me if they were asking just because they were looking for knowledge from someone who knows the area better than they do.

Or were they wanting to make a subtle hint that they needed a place and wanted them to fix their dilemma? Maybe offer a place like their home to freshen up? I guess that could be interpreted in many ways. When I was married we also included a informational pamphlet on places to stay that were close to both venues for all of our guests, not just out of town guests. I did not list many locations, only a handful, enough that all budgets could find a place suitable.

 

[Big_John]

FWIW, the local schools pick up at the end of the driveway for every kid and for special needs kids, they have a smaller bus that pulls into the driveway and does whatever is needed.

A couple things to keep in mind, we get a lot of snow here (average about 125" annually) and it gets pretty cold with wind chills of -10 to -20° F not uncommon. A foot of snow overnight might make for an hour delay, but school doesn't cancel as long as the buses can run. With snowbanks and no sidewalks, it really doesn't make sense for them to not pick the kids up from their house. In fact some have little shacks at the end of their driveways for the kids to wait in.

I didn't get to grow up in the country and this beats my experience of walking to school when I was small or taking the city bus when I was in high school and having to pay the fare myself!

 

[Rockminer]

It's not up to the school system to please and accomodate each parent - the location of the bus stop is set by the school system - now it's up to each parent to do the responsible thing on behalf of their child or children .

when I started kindergarten in 1949 my mother walked with me the first day - about a half mile - I walked alone from then on as did all my classmates - at that time my parents felt it was a responsible decision to allow me to walk alone - would they feel that way today ? who knows , my point is that parents today need to make judgement calls every day and getting their children to school is just another on a long list.

I agree with what you are saying to a certaing point. However in the case of AACJ above The stop was changed for the better of the majority. I see nothing wrong with this. sometimes things change and need to be corrected. Should this happen in Wendy's case? Don't know. If everyone that uses that stop feels it should be moved, then it should be looked at with an open mind IMO.

 

[AACJ]

Actually, it IS the schools responsibility to accomodate each parent. Especially if there is a safety issue involved. Sometimes when there are new students entering the school and ones graduating, the system is not always aware of this. This affects where the bus stops each morning and afternoon. It is up to the parents to help refine the best locations for the stops so they are optimally fair to everyone involved.

Can you imagine someone who just moved to a neighborhood, going outside and waiting for a bus that will never show up? Or a bus visiting a known bus stop in a new school year for a graduated student who will never show up? What I am saying is with attrition, growing families and people moving, the stops are always going to be dynamic. Plus, the school system is not as intimately familiar with the particulars of each neighborhood and rely on parents to help optimize the routes.

It's not up to the school system to please and accomodate each parent - the location of the bus stop is set by the school system - now it's up to each parent to do the responsible thing on behalf of their child or children .

when I started kindergarten in 1949 my mother walked with me the first day - about a half mile - I walked alone from then on as did all my classmates - at that time my parents felt it was a responsible decision to allow me to walk alone - would they feel that way today ? who knows , my point is that parents today need to make judgement calls every day and getting their children to school is just another on a long list.

 

[DonN]

what I take away from Wendy's OP is that she is a responsible mother & most of the time the bus stop location isn't a problem - the dilemma comes about when one or more children are homebound due to illness & hopefully this isn't a majority of the time .

i do have a few questions mainly pertaining to Wendy's personal situation : is the children's father available to help out ?, are there parents or inlaws close by ? are there friends or neighbors available ? is it possible that the children could be driven to the stop with the sick child in the car ? could all the children stay home on a day when one is sick ?

and finally , Wendy's situation isn't unique , maybe talk to other parents and find out what they do when a child is sick - also there will be times when a curve ball comes at you - we brought our children to a private and small daycare ( one lady) when they were little - what happens when our lady is sick & calls the night b4 to say she can't handle it tomorrow - either my wife or I called out sick or took a personal day from our job.

but staying with my original point, IMO parents need to put in the time and legwork themselves to solve their problem b4 putting it all on the "bad bus stop location"

 

[Wendy]

what I take away from Wendy's OP is that she is a responsible mother & most of the time the bus stop location isn't a problem - the dilemma comes about when one or more children are homebound due to illness & hopefully this isn't a majority of the time .

i do have a few questions mainly pertaining to Wendy's personal situation : is the children's father available to help out ?,

are there friends or neighbors available ?

is it possible that the children could be driven to the stop with the sick child in the car ? could all the children stay home on a day when one is sick ?
and finally , Wendy's situation isn't unique , maybe talk to other parents and find out what they do when a child is sick - also there will be times when a curve ball comes at you - we brought our children to a private and small daycare ( one lady) when they were little - what happens when our lady is sick & calls the night b4 to say she can't handle it tomorrow - either my wife or I called out sick or took a personal day from our job.

but staying with my original point, IMO parents need to put in the time and legwork themselves to solve their problem b4 putting it all on the "bad bus stop location"

The father ----His commute to work is 87mi each way. He is gone before the bus leaves and gone when it returns. He is off the remainder of the year though so that will help. This year we are dealing with two bus routes/times, next year it could be three. My oldest, Jack is 11. He will ride the high school bus next year, which that is another issue all of its own. His bus will come at 6:20. It is dark at 6:20, he will have to be walked. Unfortunately, Jack is 56 pounds and the same height as my daughter Sara who is only 6, to a stranger he looks much younger. He is already a target of older kids because of his size so I will have to escort Jack. Not to mention, he is very immature, maybe just a typical boy of that age. We have one neighbor girl who will be moving up next year that Jack could walk with. BUT, yesterday when I met my kids at the bus stop this young girl almost got hit by a car. Twice. That just added to my fear watching that. The young girl who is 11 walked out to cross the street Im guessing, obviously not watching, I only looked up to see a car slam its brakes, she ran out of the way in front of another car coming from the opposite direction. I kicked myself in the butt for that one, had I been watching her I could have yelled at her to stop before she even entered the street, her parents almost always drive her both ways to the bus stop so she apparently should not be walking. My son had just tripped over his untied shoe laces and smashed into the concrete, I was helping him pick himself up and too busy chewing his butt for not fixing his laces AGAIN.



are there parents or inlaws close by ?

No inlaws available, my parents are both deceased, his parents, that is just a flat out NO. I do have a brother who just moved about 5 miles away from me, but he is an inflight manager for an Airline and it gone on the road usually over 20days a month bringing our troops back.

Are there friends or neighbors available ?

Not as of yet, with the move we have not met many people, mostly because I am a workhorse, I cannot stop beginning new projects, therefor I have not really met many people, the ones I have met are the ones in my culdesac who have the same issues. Most of them have careers with varying hours. Sheriff, detective, fireman, police dispatch, GM, traveling casket salesman and a top exec form Express Scripts, so I do not have many options. Of the ones that have kids, they are having family help them.
is it possible that the children could be driven to the stop with the sick child in the car ? could all the children stay home on a day when one is sick ? Absolutely, but I have only had the real issue with the arrival home. Sadie had been extremely sick, vomiting constantly with 104 fever. That morning I actually left her sleeping on the couch and ran up to the bus stop just hoping she would not wake. She was fine, when the kids returned home on the bus that afternoon, she was vomiting, she was so weak barely making it the toilet so I was holding her up. That is the situation I was referring to, do you leave a sick kid or let the kids walk. I realize this is an unusual situation, but I also think as a mother I should not have to worry that my kids can arrive home safely. All the other stops in the neighborhood are sensible. We are the only stop on a main road, actually a few roads over on the opposite side of the busy road, with empty lots and construction going on.


The sad part of this, there are so many kids that could benefit from changing the stop, only one child would have to walk further, again, she is in a culdesac that the bus drives down to pick her up. All of the other children could stay on a road with sidewalks, it is such a no brainer to me, especially considering the bus stops at the top of the street anyway, just refuses to open the door because the subdivision is mapped out. I guess that mapping cannot be changed.

 

[DonN]

so Wendy in a nutshell how would changing the bus stop make sure that every negative contingency is taken care of for you ?

 

[Rockminer]

We live in a culdesac. The bus enters our subdivision on the backside, when they enter they come to the top of our culdesac, but it is on the opposite side of the road. They will not pick up our kids here though. Even though there is a stop sign they stop at anyway. The bus circles the neighborhood and comes back through, once again passing our culdesac on the way out. There are 6 children on our culdessac that could utilize the stop across the street, or the bus could even stop at the top of our street. Instead our children walk to the end or our street, hang a right, walk down the main throughway of the neighborhood, a very busy street, sidewalks are not available for most of the walk because the neighborhood is not completely developed. This give two options, walk in the street at 7:30 am, when the sun is so bad in the drivers eyes, or walk in mud, rock and overgrown empty lots. After they get about 5 house lengths down the busy road they cross to the other side of the road to stand at the top of another culdesac. One thing I did fail to mention, the bus goes down a road to pick up one child in front of her house. They say this is a centralized location in case someone moves in at the furthest parcel. So our bus picks up one child who could walk 1/10th of a mile, out of a culdesac that has sidewalks but our children can walk 2/10th without sidewalks on a very busy road. I think the rules should be in place for all students in the district.

Thre is no such thing as taking care of every negative contingency, but changing the stop would benefit 6 of the 7 children from Wendy's above post.