Blade Sharpness Research Project

[Goblin]

Fascinating to see the Kismets come up as a fairly mild blade. To me they feel quite keen, but perhaps that is partly due the qualities of the Weck itself and the shallow angles that can be used.

I will say one thing of them. They ain't cheap!

 

[helicopter]

Wow! Sharpness-wise, the Solimo appears a country mile away from the substantially sharper Muhle Stainless (also a private label from Edgewell, yes?) and Wilkinson Sword.

Few weeks back, I ran a Wilkie (2024) as the control blade against the Muhle, this Solimo and one from British Supermarket Sainsbury which I believe is the same blade. On my face, I could tell the difference - the Wilkie was absolutely standout and the Muhle VERY close indeed. The one from Sainsbury actually felt so close to the Personna Platinum Chrome that I brought one of those in (from a 2022 pillar) to compare and across three full back-to-backs with this collection of blades, certainly I thought the Sainsbury to be more related to the Personna Platinum Chrome ... the Solimo was VERY close, but to my mind again more related to the Personna Platinum Chrome (I note that you also think the edge is platinum) than the Wilkinson Sword. The Muhle Stainless is, I think, clearly the Wilkinson Sword specification. Maybe the Wilkinson Sword and the Personna Platinum Chrome are closer to each other than we first thought?

Thank you for the test on this Solimo @helicopter ... I bought in a 100 pack for under £5 delivered, but since I have a 200 pillar and more of the Personna Platinum Chrome (and a good stash of the older Israeli in both Euro plastic tucks and USA red sleeves) I think I'm good. For the considerably lower price, I'd say the Solimo is a bargain and you're getting a blade that in real terms on the face performs close to the German Personna. Across three blades, the Sainsbury performed MUCH closer ... so perhaps there is some room to say there are different specifications within these private label blades.

Here's the Muhle, Solimom & Sainsbury all together - note the four wax dots.

Here's the Sainsbury retail pack (different carddboard sleeve to the blank razor seen on Solimo):

... also available at another supermarket Tesco:

... and Boots:

... and just because, some Euro packed Personna:

Do they all have date codes on the end of the tuck? The date code printer should be a tell for Edgewell Solingen.

 

[helicopter]

I think I had been thinking of Muehle as a G&F blade previously, but a closer look at performance and packaging makes me conclude both Muehles (plastic and new paper) are Wilkinson Sword Classic grind specification Solingen Edgewell blades.

All of the current German blades I have tested are G&F or Edgewell Solingen Wilkinson Sword plant blades. The Edgewell plastic tucks all have the same molds, and most or all, the date codes. It took me a while to make the observations to sort it put because there are several specifications, 3-5, probably 4. I think eventually we will be able to say which spec most of them are.

G&F was sort of a mystery to me until I learned they are open about manufacturing their own Timor brand. I had previously only known they must come from the same Solingen plant.

I also wasn't originally sure if Edgewell DE blades came from one or two plants, but eventually learned the German Personnas are made in the Solingen Wilkinson Sword plant.

 

[pjgh]

Do they all have date codes on the end of the tuck? The date code printer should be a tell for Edgewell Solingen.

Out of those retail hangers that I posted, I only have the one from Sainsbury ...

Top - Sainsbury [PROD 22/02/24 DA]
Bottom - Solimo [29/08/2024 PR A]

Looks like the same printer. Thoughts?

Damn it! ... and I've just been to Tesco.

 

[helicopter]

Out of those retail hangers that I posted, I only have the one from Sainsbury ...

View attachment 1983386

Top - Sainsbury [PROD 22/02/24 DA]
Bottom - Solimo [29/08/2024 PR A]

Looks like the same printer. Thoughts?

Damn it! ... and I've just been to Tesco.

Both are Edgewell Solingen Wilkinson Sword plant tucks.

 

[helicopter]

These are the Gentleman Jon Platinum Coated Swedish Stainless Steel Double Edge Razor Blades. They are made in China by either Cloud or Xirui; I am about 75% confident that it is Cloud. Performance and grind are very similar to the red Cloud SS. It comes in natural brown cardboard and the tuck is cut with a special die. The graphic design is quite attractive. The blades are 100 microns thick, quite mild in sharpness, with good balance and excellent durability, consistency, grind, and performance of coatings and steel.

It is a fine and smooth three stage grind of good design done with even abrasives of good quality. After the test, in the second photo, we see that the failure mode of the steel was a tiny bit of small chipping, indicative of high-quality alloy with proper heat treatment.

It has a U-Shaped cutting force wear curve indicating excellent platinum driven coating performance and durable steel. It is mild in sharpness, even for a Chinese blade, but overall quality is there.

The only sticking point is that these cost $12.50/50 and they are basically the same thing as blades that are available for ~$7/100 in more original, transparent, and authentic packaging. Gentleman Jon blades are fine, but it is foolish to buy them. Just get the red Cloud SS or Matgicol Swedish if you want blades like this.

Date	25-Jan-2025			Blade Thickness, mm	0.100
Blade	Shanghai Cloud	Gentleman Jon	Platinum Swedish	China	1-Jan-2024
Wear on Edge	0	3	6	9	12
Edges Measured	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top
Measurement Medium	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21
Dulling Substrate	New	Paper	Paper	Paper	Paper
Measurements	20	20	20	20	20
Adj. Std. Dev.	8	7	7	7	6
Median F (g)	61.5	58	59.5	59	61
Mean F (g) Top	59	59	59	60	65
Mean F (g) Bottom	63	58	59	59	58
Mean F (g)	61	59	59	59	61
BESS Adj. Factor	1.39	1.39	1.39	1.39	1.39
Avg. Adj. F (g) Top	82	82	82	83	90
Avg. Adj. F (g) Bottom	87	81	82	82	80
Median Adj. F (g)	86	81	83	82	85
Mean Adj. F (g)	85	81	82	83	85

Blade Sharpness Test Index

 

[helicopter]

This is the Zomchi Superior Platinum pine blade. It is marketed on Amazon by eVatmaster Consulting of Frankfurt, Germany, and EVATOST Consulting of London, England, yet another lazy marketing company, a duo this time, importing private label goods and capitalizing on the confusion of Amazon. The packaging indicates their blade is manufactured in China by Shenzhen Zhongzhiyun Technology Co., Ltd., but some quick research suggests this is most likely a trading company, as they also sell watches and other things. I can't determine the actual manufacturer.

The blade itself is 95 microns thick, quite mild in sharpness, with fair balance, durability, and consistency.

The grind is a bit crude, with some uneven scratches, and different secondary bevel angles on opposite sides of the the same (bottom) edge. You can see the coating on the distal tertiary bevel. In the second photo, taken after the test, the coating is worn, and you can see the failure mode of the steel was some small chipping, typical of high-quality razor steel.

Even though I can't point to an OEM blade equivalent yet, there are much better Chinese blades at much better prices than the $14/100 these cost. Milder offerings from Cloud, Xirui, and Shanghai Gillette offer better performance and quality at lower prices. I can't recommend a blade with poor balance at this price.

Date	26-Jan-2025			Blade Thickness, mm	0.095
Blade	Zhongzhiyun	Zomchi	Superior Platinum	China	1-Jan-2024
Wear on Edge	0	3	6	9	12
Edges Measured	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top
Measurement Medium	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21
Dulling Substrate	New	Paper	Paper	Paper	Paper
Measurements	20	20	20	20	20
Adj. Std. Dev.	12	10	8	18	11
Median F (g)	64.5	60	60.5	71	67
Mean F (g) Top	58	51	57	73	68
Mean F (g) Bottom	70	64	62	70	70
Mean F (g)	64	58	60	71	69
BESS Adj. Factor	1.39	1.39	1.39	1.39	1.39
Avg. Adj. F (g) Top	81	71	80	101	94
Avg. Adj. F (g) Bottom	97	90	86	97	98
Median Adj. F (g)	90	83	84	99	93
Mean Adj. F (g)	89	80	83	99	96

Blade Sharpness Test Index

 

[helicopter]

This is the Zomchi's other blade, the Close Shave Superior Swedish Stainless Platinum sage blade. It is marketed on Amazon by eVatmaster Consulting of Frankfurt, Germany, and EVATOST Consulting of London, England, yet another lazy marketing company, a duo this time, importing private label goods and capitalizing on the confusion of Amazon. The packaging indicates their blade is manufactured in China by Shenzhen Zhongzhiyun Technology Co., Ltd., but some quick research suggests this is most likely a trading company, as they also sell watches and other things. I can't determine the actual manufacturer.

This blade is 100 microns, quite mild in sharpness, with good balance, and poor durability, and consistency.

It has a crude grind with coarse and uneven abrasives. The coating looks unusual, like it might be contaminated or corroded. After the test, in the second photo, we see that the failure mode of the steel was lots of large chipping.

It is definitely a different specification than the other one. They are both $14/100, but you shouldn't get either of them. If they actually used Sandvik steel for this blade, they sure didn't use a suitable design and heat treatment to get the available performance out of the alloy.

Performance of the better bottom edge suggests a metallic coating is present, and I lean toward that edge being a better representation of the specification. Along with the printing on the blade and package indicating a platinum driven metallic coating, I think such a coating is present.

Date	26-Jan-2025			Blade Thickness, mm	0.100
Blade	Zhongzhiyun	Zomchi	Superior Swedish	China	1-Jan-2024
Wear on Edge	0	3	6	9	12
Edges Measured	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top
Measurement Medium	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21	Stren 4 .21
Dulling Substrate	New	Paper	Paper	Paper	Paper
Measurements	20	20	20	20	20
Adj. Std. Dev.	10	15	15	22	31
Median F (g)	56.5	59	68	66	66.5
Mean F (g) Top	59	66	75	82	90
Mean F (g) Bottom	58	56	65	62	62
Mean F (g)	58	61	70	72	76
BESS Adj. Factor	1.39	1.39	1.39	1.39	1.39
Avg. Adj. F (g) Top	82	92	104	113	125
Avg. Adj. F (g) Bottom	80	78	90	86	87
Median Adj. F (g)	79	81	95	92	93
Mean Adj. F (g)	81	85	97	100	106

Blade Sharpness Test Index

 

[helicopter]

Anyone seen an OEM branded Chinese blade in boxes like this with the 5 blade tucks stacked 2-high?

 

[Barberbite]

I measured the 7AM Plus Hi Platinum blade from the pay it forward Lucky 7 today. I switched back to the double edge shavette to avoid any problems.

View attachment 1866179

The new blade has a nice scratch pattern, visible metallic coating and a clean edge.

View attachment 1866180

The post-test blade has some small chipping, but looks smoother across the majority of its edge.

View attachment 1866181

Information Summary:

Date	6/21/14	6/21/14	6/21/14	6/21/14	6/21/14
Blade	7AM Plus HP
Shaves	0	P3	P6	P9	P12
Location	Top Center	Top Center	Top Center	Top Center	Top Center
Medium	Stren 8	Stren 8	Stren 8	Stren 8	Stren 8
Dulling Substrate	New	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push
Measurements	30	30	30	30	30
Std. Dev.	9	10	11	17	19
Median F (g)	62	63.5	66.5	71.5	77
Mean F (g)	61	63	66	73	79

Complete Data:

Date	6/21/14	6/21/14	6/21/14	6/21/14	6/21/14
Blade	7AM Plus Hi Pt
Shaves	0	P3	P6	P9	P12
Location	Top Center	Top Center	Top Center	Top Center	Top Center
Medium	Stren 8	Stren 8	Stren 8	Stren 8	Stren 8
Dulling Substrate	New	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push	Stpl Ppr Rubr Push
Measurements	30	30	30	30	30
Std. Dev.	9	10	11	17	19
Median F (g)	62	63.5	66.5	71.5	77
Mean F (g)	61	63	66	73	79
F (g) 1	74	62	67	65	50
F (g) 2	71	68	71	64	75
F (g) 3	66	59	68	81	109
F (g) 4	63	69	68	82	74
F (g) 5	66	75	60	68	82
F (g) 6	43	65	77	97	77
F (g) 7	65	67	54	102	79
F (g) 8	60	61	61	66	102
F (g) 9	76	64	62	82	65
F (g) 10	56	85	66	92	92
F (g) 11	43	66	76	69	88
F (g) 12	42	84	81	60	83
F (g) 13	59	47	66	71	72
F (g) 14	63	68	73	72	60
F (g) 15	59	66	68	58	62
F (g) 16	62	60	39	72	77
F (g) 17	51	54	70	94	104
F (g) 18	62	69	69	53	116
F (g) 19	55	57	70	59	62
F (g) 20	64	57	60	94	53
F (g) 21	64	63	54	52	49
F (g) 22	65	65	70	77	65
F (g) 23	76	49	104	58	87
F (g) 24	66	64	70	63	54
F (g) 25	56	54	64	99	69
F (g) 26	57	51	50	40	84
F (g) 27	64	47	56	47	86
F (g) 28	55	70	65	95	103
F (g) 29	61	62	53	86	61
F (g) 30	59	48	63	77	117

This blade starts out sharp and holds its edge well. It is a good durable edge. I can't comment on its smoothness as I haven't shaved with it yet, but the numbers look like a blade I could get a 100 pack and shave with a thousand times and be happy. I'd better try the other one on my face first.

I would like to try these blades but they are not found in Italy. The TRC web page classifies them as blades provenance Made in Russia.

 

[ecoshav]

This is a big day for super heroes, so we have another Treet, the Super Power Super Quality Carbon Steel Double Edge Blade. This is another fairly sharp, durable, and consistent 95 micron white carbon steel blade like the New Edge, but this one has a coating, which I suspect is their standard platinum coating.

View attachment 1936349

View attachment 1936350

The grind is the same, and we can see the coating. I have been putting bottom edges at the right of the photograph for consistency, but this convention to put them at the bottom makes more sense and take up less space. We will do this from now on.

View attachment 1936351

This one is in very good condition after the test, which makes sense if it is the same steel with a tough and durable platinum coating.
View attachment 1936354

I am reasonably confident this is the same steel specification as the New Edge, the only difference being a platinum coating on this one.

View attachment 1936357

The variance from top edge to bottom edge on this one is enough to feel for sure, but overall performance isn't too bad.

Date	31-Oct-2024			Blade Thickness, mm	0.096
Blade	Treet	Super Power	Super Quality CS	Kot Lakhpat Lahore	12-Mar-2022
Wear on Edge	0	3	6	9	12
Edges Measured	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top	Bottom / Top
Measurement Medium	Stren 6 .22	Stren 6 .22	Stren 6 .22	Stren 6 .22	Stren 6 .22
Dulling Substrate	New	Paper	Paper	Paper	Paper
Measurements	20	20	20	20	20
Adj. Std. Dev.	9	10	6	10	7
Median F (g)	57	48	50.5	54	53
Mean F (g) Top	48	43	48	49	50
Mean F (g) Bottom	60	55	54	60	57
Mean F (g)	54	49	51	55	54
BESS Adj. Factor	1.22	1.22	1.22	1.22	1.22
Avg. Adj. F (g) Top	58	52	58	60	62
Avg. Adj. F (g) Bottom	73	67	66	73	70
Median Adj. F (g)	70	59	62	66	65
Mean Adj. F (g)	66	59	62	67	66

View attachment 1936359

View attachment 1936362

Treet has given us several examples of properly made carbon steel double edge blades. I can see why a lot of the people who prefer carbon steel blades are fans of Treet. Treet blades aren't the most carefully made, this one has a significant performance variance from the top to bottom edge, but they are not all bad, especially as far a carbon steel goes.

Blade Sharpness Test Index

Do you think these blades (Treet Super Power) have a PTFE coating?

I am trying to avoid PTFE-coated blades.

 

[pjgh]

Do you think these blades (Treet Super Power) have a PTFE coating?

I am trying to avoid PTFE-coated blades.

I think you're in for quite a search - I would say practically all modern double edge blades have a teflon coating. It's standard practice. Without, they'd be (by today's standards) unusably rough.

 

[ecoshav]

@pjgh As far as I understand (but I have no manufacturer verification), Treet Carbon Steel (the blades literally called 'Treet Carbon Steel', specifically - the 'Black Beauty' ones) and Treet New Edge do not have a PTFE coating.

According to the data in this thread, the Treet New Edge are sharper. I am currently using Treet New Edge. I disagree about 'unusably rough'. Maybe that applies to the 'Black Beauties', but I wouldn't say it does to the New Edge*. Rougher than other blades out there? Yes. But then I've tried blades with a PTFE coating that didn't seem very nice. Arguably, isn't the grind just as, or more, important?

Either way, I want to use blades without PTFE, and buying ones without is the only way to change the market, as far as I'm concerned. My technique and razor will have to compensate for any deficiencies of the blade. If these Super Powers (likely) don't have a PTFE coating - in the estimation of the OP, I mean - they could be a winner, as it will avoid the rust that is possible with the Carbon Steels ('Black Beauties') and New Edges, and, according to the testing, they are sharper than the New Edges, which would be perfect for me.

*To be fair, it's difficult for me to make a fair (even in a subjective context) comparison between the Black Beauties and the New Edge as I haven't used the Black Beauties in my current razor, which I've used the New Edges in, and I could be biased by the data I've seen on this thread (psychologically).

 

[lasta]

@pjgh As far as I understand (but I have no manufacturer verification), Treet Carbon Steel (the blades literally called 'Treet Carbon Steel', specifically - the 'Black Beauty' ones) and Treet New Edge do not have a PTFE coating.

According to the data in this thread, the Treet New Edge are sharper. I am currently using Treet New Edge. I disagree about 'unusably rough'. Maybe that applies to the 'Black Beauties', but I wouldn't say it does to the New Edge*. Rougher than other blades out there? Yes. But then I've tried blades with a PTFE coating that didn't seem very nice. Arguably, isn't the grind just as, or more, important?

Either way, I want to use blades without PTFE, and buying ones without is the only way to change the market, as far as I'm concerned. My technique and razor will have to compensate for any deficiencies of the blade. If these Super Powers (likely) don't have a PTFE coating - in the estimation of the OP, I mean - they could be a winner, as it will avoid the rust that is possible with the Carbon Steels ('Black Beauties') and New Edges, and, according to the testing, they are sharper than the New Edges, which would be perfect for me.

*To be fair, it's difficult for me to make a fair (even in a subjective context) comparison between the Black Beauties and the New Edge as I haven't used the Black Beauties in my current razor, which I've used the New Edges in, and I could be biased by the data I've seen on this thread (psychologically).

Hi,

Unfortunately, @pjgh is right on this one. PTFE has been applied to blades even before stainless steel ones were introduced.

If you are set on acquiring, search ebay for blades produced before the 50's. WWII era Gillette Super Thins would be a good start, they seem to pop up quite often. You could also try the hundreds or even thousands of now forgotten brands during the 1930's.

Check every blade, make sure there are no rust.

 

[pjgh]

Absolutely not wanting to argue with you @ecoshav as the point and purpose of this thread is to uncover actual facts about blades and Treet are a bit of a special case with their production of carbon steel blades. Rough was perhaps not the right word for me to have used and perhaps harsh might be better, but as you rightly say there are some harsh blades out there even with the teflon coating.

I am inclined to agree with you on the Black Beauty but I wonder if you're mis-reading @helicopter's words in the New Edge analysis where he says "uncoated". Let's hear from him, but I think he means "not chromium or platinum coated". Regarding the Black Beauty, personally I think them pretty smooth running and certainly enjoy them.

 

[helicopter]

My testing of the Treet Treet Carbon Steel and Treet New Edge does not indicate the presence of any coating, which strongly suggests a metallic coating is not present and is inconclusive regarding a PTFE coating. Sometimes a PTFE coating is visible in images or indicated by testing, but more often, even when a PTFE coating is present, the testing doesn't suggest it is there. Definitive information on the presence or lack of a metallic coating is scarce. Options for uncoated double edge blades are extremely limited.

I don't think the 2 facet Accutec GEM blades have a PTFE coating, but the best way to avoid PTFE is probably a straight razor. Having used both, I would not recommend the 2 facet GEMs for shaving.

If I were concerned about PTFE, I would just switch to straights entirely. Of course, other pre-1960 designs including vintage double edge blades, wedges, and others, will also get you away from them.

 

[LRod]

I don't find Black Beauties rough at all!
I like them (one & done) on aggressive razors.
They work fine for me!!

 

[ecoshav]

@lasta I did not know this about PTFE coatings. Thanks for the suggestion.

@pjgh Rough/harsh, it's much the same. You're not offending me. I don't see this as an argument. At the end of the day there is a subjective element, as well as the objective factors (measurements, razor choice, soap choice). Our faces are all different. Like you, I too want to get to the bottom of this; to the facts. Then we can use the facts to work out the subjective preferences beyond that.

@helicopter Thank you. And what is your opinion on the Treet Super Power? I assume, given what you mention about PTFE coatings sometimes being present even when the testing doesn't suggest it's there, it's safest to assume there is one?

Do you think these blades (Treet Super Power) have a PTFE coating?

I am trying to avoid PTFE-coated blades.

I have actually considered switching to straights in the long-run, but it's the technique that concerns me. Safety razors are like 'training wheels' that I don't want to do away with just yet.

I don't think the 2 facet Accutec GEM blades have a PTFE coating

Ah, but then there's the problem of plastic packaging (although you don't ultimately recommend these blades anyway), which I'm also trying to avoid.

Vintage double-edge blades may be the way for me to go for the time being, if I can get hold of them (which, given a cursory glance on eBay just now, seems doubtful).

Anyway, sorry to divert from the main topic (although maybe I'm falling into the @pjgh problem of excessive courtesy, and shouldn't apologise).

 

[helicopter]

I can see the plastic on Super Power.

Straight razors aren't bad. They take more time and practice, but they are no more dangerous than any other very sharp blade when used with care. The whole process can be rewarding, and I imagine even more so for someone who is especially concerned about plastics.

 

[ecoshav]

Wow. Thanks. Can I ask, how did you gain the experience to spot these things? @helicopter

P.S. Thanks, I'll consider straight razors more seriously. ...And of course, besides the plastic, they have the advantage of not having a disposable element (except of course the strop, eventually).