Bevel setting and a coti

[bmc1979]

Question is. Is it the method or the razors?

Try using the dmt with the king cutter and the coti for the genco and see if the results hold true.

This is a good point. Guess I have my next test.

Again I want to thank everyone for their help and input. Everything is appreciated

 

[dreka]

How experienced are you with honing? Have you honed with synthetics before?

I was using Bart's dilucot method with the half strokes but was only getting decent shaves. I realized that the issue was mainly due to my half stroke technique. Doing the dilucot method using the x stroke improved the end result but it also heightened the "feel" when honing. Using the standard x stroke also helped keep the water on the stone. I guess my half strokes were flicking water off the stone.

Edit:
By the way, now I'm getting some of the most amazing shaves off my coti! Good luck with your journey!

 

[TZee]

Interesting find here. Many people prefer using other methods to set bevels prior to going to the coti.

I agree with dreka above about the x-stroke. I actually made a bit of progress tonight with that rather than the back-and-forth strokes.

Who else sets bevels with a coti, and what methods do you use?

 

[jeness]

Setting a bevel with a coti is like killing someone with a spoon. It can be done, but sometimes it can be very tedious and takes a long time. If you get a slow coti, with a not almost set bevel razor, than you will refresh the slurry a lot of times until you set the bevel. Add beginner skills to this, a small bout, and it becomes even worse. If you only hone new or near new razors, than a coti will do, but otherwise I would get a 1k stone for bevel setting.

 

[jkh]

Interesting find here. Many people prefer using other methods to set bevels prior to going to the coti.

I agree with dreka above about the x-stroke. I actually made a bit of progress tonight with that rather than the back-and-forth strokes.

Who else sets bevels with a coti, and what methods do you use?

Setting a bevel with a coti is like killing someone with a spoon. It can be done, but sometimes it can be very tedious and takes a long time. If you get a slow coti, with a not almost set bevel razor, than you will refresh the slurry a lot of times until you set the bevel. Add beginner skills to this, a small bout, and it becomes even worse. If you only hone new or near new razors, than a coti will do, but otherwise I would get a 1k stone for bevel setting.

There is bevel setting and then there is BEVEL SETTING - the former is also referred to as bevel correcting. If you are looking to take chips and other damage out of an edge (BEVEL SETTING) you'll probably want something faster than a Coticule with slurry. However, I am constantly surprised how much I can accomplish with a Coticule, some slurry, and half strokes with some pressure.

Lots of different roads lead to Rome.

 

[danjared]

Historically, coticules were the stone used for bevel correction. If the work needed was more than a fast coticule could handle, my understanding is that the razor would be sent to the factory for further work (including up to regrinding, which I understand Dovo still offers).

 

[YetiDave]

I cleaned up an eBay special - destroying the existing bevel with a dremel and managed to set and bevel and hone on a coti (my first honing experience) and was successful on the 4th attempt. This was with a hollow grind and unicot... Probably took 3 hours in total for those 4 attempts (getting the edge even along the blade was tricky) so it can be done

 

[jkh]

Historically, coticules were the stone used for bevel correction. If the work needed was more than a fast coticule could handle, my understanding is that the razor would be sent to the factory for further work (including up to regrinding, which I understand Dovo still offers).

That must be hell on the goldwash

 

[danjared]

That must be hell on the goldwash

Yeah, well, in this case we're talking about razors people use for shaving, not for shaving and then ogling at 90% of the time.

 

[clong82]

You can do the same with either, it is basically what you are used to and what you have on hand at the time. My razors stay perfect with just a coti and that that is it, I even set bevels with a thick slurry on a coti and it works really quickly.

 

[danjared]

You can do the same with either, it is basically what you are used to and what you have on hand at the time. My razors stay perfect with just a coti and that that is it, I even set bevels with a thick slurry on a coti and it works really quickly.

Yup. I'll add that I've done bevel setting--not bevel correction--on another Tanifuji (the model that says "Cape Kennedy" on it) without any problems. Now, this could be difficult with a slower coticule, but with most stones it works fine.

 

[TZee]

danjared, did your Tanifuji have a smile, and did you use the Rolling X-stroke?

I'm also wondering why dulling the blade on glass would require hours of bevel correction.

 

[danjared]

danjared, did your Tanifuji have a smile, and did you use the Rolling X-stroke?

I'm also wondering why dulling the blade on glass would require hours of bevel correction.

It has a bit of a smile. To me, the rolling x-stroke and the x-stroke are part of a continuum. In a regular x-stroke, I always do an ever so slight rolling action anyway, as that helps to prevent a frown over time. You'll notice that a lot of old razors that are in good condition often have an ever so slight smile, by the way.

To be honest, when I was starting out, I spent hours on every stone in my progression (used Nortons and DMTs then). I managed to futz up the edge quite easily then despite 3" wide hones supposedly being easier. I recommend using the marker test to help you see what's going wrong. Use a Sharpie to mark the bevel and spine on both sides. And if you notice any variation in the feel of the razor on the hone, try to figure out what the cause is. Often, when starting out, that variation in feel is from the spine or edge being raised or one end of the razor being up and the other end grinding into the edge of the stone. It's a bit like learning to ride a bike. I'm sure that there's hardly anyone who rode smoothly in a straight line on their first bike ride.

 

[jkh]

I'm sure that there's hardly anyone who rode smoothly in a straight line on their first bike ride.

Or their second, third, or fourth rides.

 

[TZee]

I swear you're spying on me. The marker test has already been duly noted thanks to some posts over at coticule.be. There's a guy from Poland who had a problem attacking a smiling edge. My razor has a slight smile.

I agree that it takes time to learn. However, I think there needs to be more mention of the various techniques on the coticule site. Yes, you can find about the different strokes in the Sharpening Academy, but when should one be using a Rolling X-Stroke vs a Swaying, etc. It's also not really that clear as to when you should jump into these various strokes. Take dilucot for example, and all you really see are back-and-forth strokes.

 

[TZee]

The marker test and Rolling X-strokes solved the problem. That, coupled with experience helped a lot. I even used the BBW side, which produces a milky blue slurry.

 

[danjared]

I'm glad you're making progress. Just remember to stick to one stone, and you'll get there faster. And, finishing is usually the part you'll figure out last. Once you get a HHT1 off the stone, the rest is finishing (and having the patience for it) and confidence that you'll get there.