Help with honing a warped blade

[Frank Shaves]

^
Who cares? How would you know that the blade is warped until you try to hone it. IMHO, this is a you (the maker and seller) problem, not a me (the buyer) problem.

 

[marv]

As I mentioned, there is a problem with the Bismarck blanks used by Dovo. After seeing this issue yesterday, I asked a few friends who have recently purchased Bismarcks for more pictures. They also have the same problem. I’m still not sure whether they bought from Herkenrath, but wherever they are getting them from, all the new Bismarcks I have honed recently have had the same issue. Therefore, I don’t think it’s due to heat treatment. In my opinion, the problem lies in the blanks they obtain. The idea of correcting the geometry for these razors seems to me like a waste of time and a lot of steel waste. Using narrow stones, applying torque to the edge to ensure contact along the entire edge, or using convex stones are also options. Honing piece by piece with rolling strokes and then bringing the edge together is effective as well. If you know what you are doing, all these methods will reach Rome. However, I do not agree with the idea of correcting the geometry and achieving equal symmetry on the edge.

I would also like to point out that manufacturers sell products that do not pass quality control. (Those that didn’t pass heat treatment tests, have faulty geometry, were damaged during honing, have visual cosmetic problems, etc.) These razors, obtained at very low prices through suppliers from Solingen, are also sold by vendors. It’s important to keep this in mind.

Once again, it would be wise to refrain from purchasing Dovo Bismarcks for a while."

 

[JPO]

IMHO, this is a you (the maker and seller) problem, not a me (the buyer) problem

Unfortunately honing skills are not included in the price.
You don't become a knife sharpener just because you baught a knife and a stone.

You don't need to hone a razor to identify geometry 'issues '

I recently baught a Drew Dick razor from a guy who had 20 years of knife honing experience. He argued that the razor had bad steel, and needed to be sent back to the maker.
He went on a rant on yt bashing the maker.
I offered to hone it, and found nothing wrong with the steel. I made an offer for it he accepted.
He was shaving with a micro burr.
He has also made the same claims about several other razors.
Off course it's not him it's all the razor makers that doesn't know how to make razors!
CV heljestrand is as we all know not able to make good razors and the steel is horrible. That's probably why they are in so high demand.

There is probably quality control improvement that can be made by the manufacturers, but usually the guy in the mirror play in big(er) part here.

 

[Stapelfeld]

Unfortunately honing skills are not included in the price.
You don't become a knife sharpener just because you baught a knife and a stone.

You don't need to hone a razor to identify geometry 'issues '

I recently baught a Drew Dick razor from a guy who had 20 years of knife honing experience. He argued that the razor had bad steel, and needed to be sent back to the maker.
He went on a rant on yt bashing the maker.
I offered to hone it, and found nothing wrong with the steel. I made an offer for it he accepted.
He was shaving with a micro burr.
He has also made the same claims about several other razors.
Off course it's not him it's all the razor makers that doesn't know how to make razors!
CV heljestrand is as we all know not able to make good razors and the steel is horrible. That's probably why they are in so high demand.

There is probably quality control improvement that can be made by the manufacturers, but usually the guy in the mirror play in big(er) part here.

You mean it wasn't the steel and it was just a micro burr?!?! I saw those videos and sold all my razors and ordered myself a seven day set of Parker razors! Are you telling me it was all for nothing?!?! hahaha

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

It is part of honing razors, very few are dead flat, most have some slight warp or other defect, and you just have to learn to deal with it.

I have honed many, many new Dovo’s and TI’s, very few are flat.

I recently honed a new Bismark exactly like the OP’s and it was very close to flat, took a nice edge with even bevels and shaved very well.

Those blades are very thin, without a stabilizer and will flex very easily with the slightest pressure and lift the edge off the stone.

I did some experiments with colored ink on the bevels and was surprised at how little pressure it took to lift the edge off the stone.

I expect a simple rolling X stroke will get the razor finished properly.

 

[LJS]

is this better than grounding the spine or learning how to x roll? Not saying any of that, i'm saying this is just another route to the same end result.

Grinding the spine won’t help when the edge is warped and bowed. One side, the one that bows outward is not so bad to reach the edge. But the other side that bows inward toward the center, that is harder to reach the edge until you remove some metal from the heel and toe bevel areas so you can get stone contact in the middle. That or use the skinny hones or other tricks to reach the edge.

Can it be done. Clearly many of us have dealt with it. And you generally end up with a razor with uneven bevels but works fine and honing is fine after the initial work. But they should not be like this.

It’s called a straight razor. Not a warped razor or bowed razor or curved razor. Really sad that decent companies like TI and Dovo are letting these out of the shop. Even crappy gold dollars are straight generally.

 

[Steve56]

In my not so recent experience, I got two of them, one is fine, the other is not. The bent ones can be honed and I agree that it probably best to not try and correct the geometry, just hone as is.

The elephant in the room is the question, ‘why would you buy razors like this knowing that there’s a high probability of getting one with such issues’? I understand that many folks want new razors rather than vintage, but I’d have to consider the price of a new German razor as a discount on a Riga Razor, Koraat, etc.

They really need to do something about this, and I wish them the best of luck.

 

[Eshebert]

I do not buy new razors, most of mine are vintage, and a few customs. Like most of us, I have ran across razors with heavy English. With my style of honing, its usually not a problem. If I cant deal with it the way I normally hone a warp, I move on. I am not a spine grinder, and life is too short to stress in a hobby I use to destress with .

I am with you @Steve56. If they every solve their issues, newly produced German razors may become more attractive.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

In the past couple of years I began collecting vintage Dovo razors, primarily post-war Fritz Brach 3 pin razors.

I was buying them with almost no spine wear and near NOS for $10-20, and recently price on line have jumped but still well under $100 and usually $40-80.

Every one of those razors are dead flat, super evenly, expertly and thinly ground blades, easily take a screaming edge, and are great shavers, probably very close to Filarmonica shaving quality.

To boot most are with fancy scales, bolsters and other blade ornamentation.

The bottom line is that Dovo knows how to make great high-quality razors, they did it for years. And they did it under other marks as well, most commonly the Double Duck line.

So, it is a choice. I get it, it is a manufacturing and also likely an employee pride decision. Gone are the days of master grinder for whom it was a profession, not a 9-5 job.

I recently bough my bride a new Honda, the quality is nothing like the 10 years old Honda it replaced, it actually is in the shop right now for a major factory recall for the all-wheel drive transmission. With our old Honda, all we ever did was change the oil and replace tires.

So, it is not just razors…

 

[Koop]

In my not so recent experience, I got two of them, one is fine, the other is not. The bent ones can be honed and I agree that it probably best to not try and correct the geometry, just hone as is.

The elephant in the room is the question, ‘why would you buy razors like this knowing that there’s a high probability of getting one with such issues’? I understand that many folks want new razors rather than vintage, but I’d have to consider the price of a new German razor as a discount on a Riga Razor, Koraat, etc.

They really need to do something about this, and I wish them the best of luck.

This is one of the reasons for my recent RAD for contemporary custom makers. One man, beginning to end, showcasibnbg his skill. No outside QC required.

 

[Stapelfeld]

Grinding the spine won’t help when the edge is warped and bowed. One side, the one that bows outward is not so bad to reach the edge. But the other side that bows inward toward the center, that is harder to reach the edge until you remove some metal from the heel and toe bevel areas so you can get stone contact in the middle. That or use the skinny hones or other tricks to reach the edge.

Can it be done. Clearly many of us have dealt with it. And you generally end up with a razor with uneven bevels but works fine and honing is fine after the initial work. But they should not be like this.

It’s called a straight razor. Not a warped razor or bowed razor or curved razor. Really sad that decent companies like TI and Dovo are letting these out of the shop. Even crappy gold dollars are straight generally.

Yeah I agree the bow outward is easy you can just roll the x stroke but the bow inward is the real problem. That’s why in the video I use those small naguras… The nagura is just an example and what I really wanted to point across that video was the usefulness of using narrower stones

 

[BMFtoolco]

It is disappointing that their quality control is lacking. I can say for sure I won’t be buying another Dovo unless I hear there has been a drastic change. I have a few vintage razors and a few have a slight warp but nothing like the Bismarck. People had pride and craftsmanship in the past. Now they are few and far between it seems.

 

[helicopter]

As someone who started with several Dovos, I simply didn't know better. They are beautifully designed Solingen straights starting around $90, and up into nice hardwood, gold leaf, and engraving for $150.

Dovo is a strong brand, and they have some of the best ad copy and aesthetic designs in the industry. No company competes with them on price with the same level of heritage and aesthetics.

The only European brands at this price point, like Timor some private labels (that are all basically Timors and Dovos anyway) are just as wonky and no where near as beautiful.

The other current big factory brands with similar heritage and aesthetics, notably Böker and Thiers Issard, are not at this entry level price. If you don't understand how much easier they are to hone and maintain, then there isn't much case for selecting them over a less expensive Dovo.

Workshop and artesan razors like Ertan Sūer, Ralf Aust, Koraat, and Riga, do not have the same level of broad messaging and wide distribution. Some of them aren't available in stores. You have to wait for them. You have to know about them from somewhere other than their own marketing reach. And they are significantly more expensive than Dovo.

And don't get me started on vintage razors. There are some great bargains. There are some masterpieces. There are real collectibles that are likely to appreciate in value. There is also quite a bit of knowledge necessary to get into the game without wasting money.

Pits cleaned with evaporust, cell rot, cracks, hone wear, frowns from barber hones, misrepresented shave readiness; there are a dozen things someone buying their first razor probably doesn't know how to watch out for.

Just because I recently got a nice deal on an old Wade and Butcher that I was able to clean up and repair doesn't mean I could have done the same thing six months ago. I think we often take for granted how much knowledge we are applying when we select vintage razors. I definitely did better with Dovos than vintage on the first five purchases or so.

 

[Stapelfeld]

As someone who started with several Dovos, I simply didn't know better. They are beautifully designed Solingen straights starting around $90, and up into nice hardwood, gold leaf, and engraving for $150.

Dovo is a strong brand, and they have some of the best ad copy and aesthetic designs in the industry. No company competes with them on price with the same level of heritage and aesthetics.

The only European brands at this price point, like Timor some private labels (that are all basically Timors and Dovos anyway) are just as wonky and no where near as beautiful.

The other current big factory brands with similar heritage and aesthetics, notably Böker and Thiers Issard, are not at this entry level price. If you don't understand how much easier they are to hone and maintain, then there isn't much case for selecting them over a less expensive Dovo.

Workshop and artesan razors like Ertan Sūer, Ralf Aust, Koraat, and Riga, do not have the same level of broad messaging and wide distribution. Some of them aren't available in stores. You have to wait for them. You have to know about them from somewhere other than their own marketing reach. And they are significantly more expensive than Dovo.

And don't get me started on vintage razors. There are some great bargains. There are some masterpieces. There are real collectibles that are likely to appreciate in value. There is also quite a bit of knowledge necessary to get into the game without wasting money.

Pits cleaned with evaporust, cell rot, cracks, hone wear, frowns from barber hones, misrepresented shave readiness; there are a dozen things someone buying their first razor probably doesn't know how to watch out for.

Just because I recently got a nice deal on an old Wade and Butcher that I was able to clean up and repair doesn't mean I could have done the same thing six months ago. I think we often take for granted how much knowledge we are applying when we select vintage razors. I definitely did better with Dovos than vintage on the first five purchases or so.

Would definitely have to agree that Dovo is a strong brand. They make some very thin grinds and compared to other brands their prices seem to be more cost-effective. No matter if you buy a dovo or whatever razor you're taking a gamble that they will not be perfectly straight, I've even seen threads in this forum where some of the custom makers straight razors have warps in them, it's less pronounced than with dovo but it happens so at some point it can go a long way to learn how to hone these types of razors, what is the saying? "Get good?" no but in all seriousness there are many ways to skin a cat, if you don't like the idea of narrower stones maybe give those humped stones a shot

 

[JPO]

We just need one more James bond movie with a scene featuring Moneypenny swinging a straight razor.
All the hipsters will want one and sell it practically unused a few months later for a bargin
I call these razors Moneypenny razors I have quite a few. These usually sell for 50-60 Euros.
For that price i don't mind a tiny amount of geometry challenge.

 

[helicopter]

We just need one more James bond movie with a scene featuring Moneypenny swinging a straight razor.
All the hipsters will want one and sell it practically unused a few months later for a bargin
I call these razors Moneypenny razors I have quite a few. These usually sell for 50-60 Euros.
For that price i don't mind a tiny amount of geometry challenge.

Maybe she can use a 7/8 Böker of Thiers Issard in the next one.

 

[JPO]

Maybe she can use a 7/8 Böker of Thiers Issard in the next one.

 

[KristapsD]

There is also quite a bit of knowledge necessary to get into the game without wasting money.

Pits cleaned with evaporust, cell rot, cracks, hone wear, frowns from barber hones, misrepresented shave readiness; there are a dozen things someone buying their first razor probably doesn't know how to watch out for.

Agreed that it is necessary to have some knowledge and experience to do competent vintage purchase.
What is the issue with evaporust or other chemically removed rust?

 

[helicopter]

Agreed that it is necessary to have some knowledge and experience to do competent vintage purchase.
What is the issue with evaporust or other chemically removed rust?

Oh just that it can hide damage and bad steel in pictures. If you dont know about it then you can overestimate condition, as I did with my "shave ready" Filarmonica 14 that had perforations all the way through the bevel and needed a lot of time in stones to be usable.

 

[Steve56]

The prime directive in vintage razor buying is don’t buy razors with rust on or near the edge.

I also don’t buy worn razors (with rare exceptions), there’s too many unworn ones around. I also try to avoid restored razors, because you don’t know who did what to the temper. Most Japanese razors restored in Japan are fine, they know what they’re doing.

My ideal candidate would be a vintage razor with light to no wear that’s at or very near full width, no rust at or near the edge. and unrestored. When I get it, I’ll clean and inspect it, and hone and shave with it. Once I’m convinced that it’s a good razor, then I will consider further investments in time/money as appropriate for the razor.

Look at the images VERY carefully.

I’ll buy dud razors for the scales if they’re desirable and the price is right.

So there’s really not that much to it, but everyone has to go through the learning experience. Have fun and enjoy the ride, and the above guidelines will help you avoid the duds.

There are some more advanced things that you can do if the razor is desirable/expensive and the images are bad, but maybe that’s another topic.