The Six Day Challenge

There was a thread on the B&B forum several days ago trying to compare the various techniques for shaving: straight, DE, M3, and Fusion. (I'll get to the Sensor later.) I've had two shaves with a straight: one at the LaFlamme Barber Shop on Harvard Square, the second at Art of Shaving in NY. Neither shave was the closest of my life, though both were decent. Back to the big 3: DE, M3, fusion. I was going to run a test, looking for closeness, (which would obviously encompass time to stubble,) smoothness, freedom from irritation. Keep in mind that we all have different skin, different facial hair, etc., and the YMMV sign should be flashing throughout.

To avoid complications, my prep was the same in each instance: in the shower, beard well washed and hydrated, lathered, (De Vergulde Hand) hot toweled, re-lathered, then shaved using the minimal pressure I could get away with. (i.e., DE Technique. ) After shave technique the same in each instance: one minute ice cold water--I live in New England, so very cold water comes right out of the tap. I put my shower on center spray, and run a light spray of icy-cold water over my face for a timed 60 seconds. Aqua Velva and Nivea a/s balm. I would not try for BBS because I wanted to factor out any possibility of irritation as much as I could.

Herewith my results:

Day 1: My first shave was with the Fusion.
1. downward pass, comfortable enough, but slight feeling of pinching. perhaps the blades are too close together. Shave decent enough, not BBS, but I wasn't trying for that. Rinse, relather, shave again, got in a bit closer, but still felt the pinching, and this was as light as I could go and still reduce the stubble.
2. satisfied with shave, time to stubble: by late afternoon it was definitely perceptible.


Day 2: M3
1. Same technique. However, the discomfort on the passes was significant. I felt that I was really having to bear down in order to get any beard reduced.
2. splashing on Aqua Velva really stung, then the Nivea a/s balm. A few hours later, my face felt comfortable. Time to stubble, about the same as the fusion.


Day 3. DE, Merkur Futur
1. Same technique. No discomfort on passes. No bearing down. rinse and re-lather after each pass, and get a comfortable shave. Not BBS and definitely not as close as the other two, but acceptable, as my beard is no longer as dark as it was in my younger days.
2. Aqua Velva: no discomfort, and face felt good all day.


At this point I phoned The Grooming Lounge and spoke with one of their techs, and mentioned Michael Gilman's interview on B&B. I specifically wanted to talk about his notion that the M3 is the only one they use, why this is, compare and contrast with the others, etc. She asked me if I had used an oil, and I told her I had not. She said that their technique was learned after shaving literally hundreds of faces with different beard and skin types, etc. Sshe also acknowledged that they chat every so often about running the test series on the Fusion, but don't feel any urgency at the moment to do so, since they're getting such great results from the M3. Michael had decided against the straight because he had traveled the world getting shaved by master barbers in some of the world's top shops, and while he found the shaves comfortable enough, they weren't the closest, greatest shaves he had ever had. While I haven't had his range of experience, my own mirrors his. Having decided that he wanted to go into the business, he ran hundreds of tests, and discovered that he could get the best shave with the M3--closest, freest from irritation, in short, all the things a great shave ought to be. My own experience: I treated myself on my 65th birthday to a shave at their emporium, and had what was unquestionably the best, closest shave of my life. I didn't need to shave for another three days afterwards. Part of it was the 6 hot towels, the other part was the beard prep, then the stretch that she was able to get beyond what I could manage on my own. So, in chatting with her, I asked her what the difference was, and she said that not only do they have a lot of confidence in their own products which they've developed themselves for their ability to make the beard stand up straight, treat the skin well, etc., they found that the use of a shaving oil made all the difference in the world. She said that I should put on a small quantity of oil, rub it in very well, --and she stressed Very Well, and then it sit for a full two minutes while I went about the rest of my prep. Then shave, and see what results I got.


back to my experiment: Everything the same as before, except that I added in the oil according to her directions, and I reversed the order in which I used the razors.


Day 4. DE
1. 1. Same technique. No discomfort on passes. No bearing down. rinse and re-lather after each pass, and got a comfortable shave. Not BBS and definitely not as close as the other two, but acceptable.
2. Aqua Velva: no discomfort, and face felt good all day.
3. In short, the results were about what they had been except for this: the same was a bit closer and smoother. time to stubble seemed a bit longer, but this is only subjective. Certainly there were no negatives about the shave.


Day 5. M3
1. Same technique. less discomfort on the passes, but I was aware of having to bear down a bit harder in order to make successive passes, and I think that this is because of the design of the M3--you need to bear down a bit with it. However, I felt that with the oil I was getting a closer, smoother shave. Shave definitely closer than with the DE.
2. splashing on Aqua Velva really stung, though not as much as before. then the Nivea a/s balm.
3. Through the day, smooth, no discomfort. Not BBS, but definitely closer than I would have obtained with the DE.

Day 6, Fusion
1. same experience as before--slight amount of pinching, etc. Again, the oil made for a smoother shave, and the time to stubble was markedly longer than with theother 2 razors, but the irritation (measured subjectively when splashing on Aqua Velva was greater.)


My conclusion: Both the M3 and the Fusion will give a closer shave than the DE, but that is simply because of the design of the razor's head: it's made to be pressed down into the skin. simply running it lightly over the skin, trying to find the right angle doesn't do the job, because the spring-loaded blades are designed to rest against the skin, pushing the skin downward while raising the beard. In my own case, I noted that this translated into pressure which subsequently translated into more stinging. The pinching feeling I feel more with the fusion than the M3 may be due to the fact that the blades are closer together, and my hair diameter may be greater. That requires sensitive measurements far beyond the scope of this extremely subjective evaluation.

Could I get a closer shave with the DE? Answer: yes, but I would have to make one or two more passes, alter the blade angle somewhat, and increse the risk of blade of skin contact. And here's the point; with the DE, blade to skin contact doesn't have to happen, or at least if it does, it can be made to occur with the most minimal pressure. With the M3 and the Fusion, blade to skin contact is a built-in design feature. That's why you'll get a closer shave, but also pay the price for it. The pictures of the skin being pushed down out of the way, and the beard popping up to be neatly sliced off is a cartoon, not reality. I also think we DE shavers have learned a measure of control over our devices that simply isn't possible with the M3 and the Fusion.

Now I used the Merkur Futur. I also have an HD and a slant. I have never butchered or even slightly injured myself with the slant, but that's because I know the technique. And that's the point of all this: You have to learn some technique with the DE, and once you do, you can give yourself really great shaves. The cartridge razors are essentially a no-brainer, they do the work by themselves--all you have to do is apply enough pressure for shaving to happen.

The other conclusion, a small amount of pre-shave oil, rubbed in very well and allowed to sit for a full two minutes does make a difference.
This being the 7th day, I'm resting. Next week I'll factor the Sensor into the equation.

Nice Study! I do keep my fusion around, but have not used it recently. It is for the days when I get up late but really need to shave. I usually "feel" it for the rest of the day.

I look forward to reading how the sensor fits into this equation.

Great post! Very informative. Validates what most of us around here have come to know and appreciate.

I suspect that once I have mastered the art of shaving with the DE I won't need to keep my Mach III. If I don't use it, it won't take up space.

I recall getting a very close shave from a professonal barber with a straight razor and he did it with one pass....I would like to have that kind of proficiency.

Interesting.... I find it very interesting that you found the oil to make such a huge difference. It's enough to make me want to consider trying it, even though I usually dismiss the stuff. Not sure I have ever tried letting it sit that long though. And I've only tried Pacific, which is really intended just as a shave, not a pre-shave. Which oil were you using? Grooming Lounge?

-Mo

moses said:

Interesting.... I find it very interesting that you found the oil to make such a huge difference. It's enough to make me want to consider trying it, even though I usually dismiss the stuff. Not sure I have ever tried letting it sit that long though. And I've only tried Pacific, which is really intended just as a shave, not a pre-shave. Which oil were you using? Grooming Lounge?

-Mo

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In this particular case, I used the AOS lavender pre-shave. I suspect that nay of them would work, althought that might be another six day challenge, experiementing with different oils. I found that the application made all the difference. Using a modest amount on a moist but not wet face, rubbing it in VERY WELL-- and then waiting the two full minutes while I work up my lather, made all the difference in the world. Before last week, I would have said it's a coin toss. Now I'm convinced.

interesting stuff...would like to know how they differed in ingrowns...in my case, I tend to see the ingrowns a day or so later, so it would be interesting to see if, say, the M# was easier but your face looked worse three days later than 3 days after a DE shave.

Unfortunately, now you can only shave every 4 days or so. I'm so sorry.

I enjoyed your experiment but wonder if you are comparing apples to apples here. I would think you should use each razor as it was designed to properly judge, not treat them all as though they were designed the same. The multi-blade cartridge razors are designed for single passes, the DE's are not, right?

david

I was a Sensor user for many years before switching to DE. In fact, till use a Sensor on the place between my moustache and nose. I'm looking forward to you report on the Sensor.

I'm 32 so the Sensor came out right when I started shaving - I just followed the Gillette path every time a new razor came out. Then I started DE shaving about a year ago and junked the Fusion and sold the cartridges on ebay.

Recently, I bought a new Sensor (plain Sensor, not the XL or the one w/ 3 blades) out of curiosity and for quick trips where I didn't want to mess with a DE. I used it for a week or 2 straight (1 pass) and was pretty impressed. I think for me, as long as I do good prep and follow my growth pattern, things usually turn out OK. I think the Sensor is better than the others because it only has 2 blades and acts more like a DE than all of the later cartridge razors.

I'll be interested to see how your trial goes w/ the Sensor. I do agree w/ another poster though in that cartridges are meant to only use 1 pass but a DE is supposed to be used for multiple passes per shave, at least 2. I found that 1 pass w/ the Sensor and then a quick 2nd pass w/ a DE worked very well for me.

It's interesting to fool around with this stuff. I've been using a DE only lately but it's nice to know I can get by w/ the Sensor when I need to.

I used to be a Sensor guy until I switch to DEs. A good friend of mine is still a Sensor guy, but the last time we got together he was considering switching to DEs. He was not getting good shaves out of the Sensors anymore and he thought there was a change in the cartridges. This has been consistent through a couple batches of cartridges for him.

Dennis

Dennis02 said:

I used to be a Sensor guy until I switch to DEs. A good friend of mine is still a Sensor guy, but the last time we got together he was considering switching to DEs. He was not getting good shaves out of the Sensors anymore and he thought there was a change in the cartridges. This has been consistent through a couple batches of cartridges for him.

Dennis

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That's how I found this site! My old Sensor, which I'd used exclusively for more than 20 years, started to irritate me and I was sure they'd changed the blades. I tried both Gillette and some knock-offs but the results were getting worse.

So I bought some disposable three-bladers which sucked bigtime. Googling for info about what would be a good razor brought me to, ta da, Leisureguy's site, and, as they say, the rest is history.

So, interestingly, I never had the severe problems folks had with three blade razors since I skipped that period in Gillette's history.

Great post. Very interesting. I had actually posted a comment about the GL this evening. I've also been and found it to be great.

BTW, what did you think of their products? Did you purchase any. I know you said you used AOL pre shave, but was curious as to why you did not use GL. I think that stuff is their best product. What cream was you using with your shave.

Also, you were talking about the prep experience. What all did they do besides hot towels?

I am also wondering on the days I use their cream how I can make it similar to their hot lather without needing a hot lather machine. Anyone have any thoughts?

DustBow said:

I'll be interested to see how your trial goes w/ the Sensor. I do agree w/ another poster though in that cartridges are meant to only use 1 pass but a DE is supposed to be used for multiple passes per shave, at least 2. I found that 1 pass w/ the Sensor and then a quick 2nd pass w/ a DE worked very well for me.

It's interesting to fool around with this stuff. I've been using a DE only lately but it's nice to know I can get by w/ the Sensor when I need to.

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I was a sensor guy. I know it's not a popular thing to say around here, but I can get every bit as good a shave with my sensor as I can with my fat boy - I've only used it like twice in a year, but the results were fantastic. My two cents is that I get overall better shaves more consistently because of the superior prep, better products and attention to technique. The blade is the smallest part of the equation - they're all just holding the razor. We have preferences of course but all the razors are sharp enough to cut hair. I continue to use a DE because I prefer it and enjoy it, not because it necessarily gives me a better shave.

If we were limited to one pass the sensor would blow my DE out of the water. I just can't take that much off with one pass with the DE method.

dmk005 said:

I enjoyed your experiment but wonder if you are comparing apples to apples here. I would think you should use each razor as it was designed to properly judge, not treat them all as though they were designed the same. The multi-blade cartridge razors are designed for single passes, the DE's are not, right?

david

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I think that's a theoretical construct. In my judgment, a single pass with a multi-blade cartridge razor would not yield a close enough shave unless you were willing to bear down hard enough, and if you do that, then you're increasing the risk of irritation to your skin, razor burn, etc. However, David, your point is well taken: The DE is intended for multiple passes, the M3 and Fusion are supposed to give you that "perfect shave" after a single pass. That's part of their advertising--you don't have to go over your face again and again to get a good shave. Frankly, I think it's a tossup--if you want to make a single pass (or even--1 up and one down, or something like that,) you'd need to bear down. If you don't bear down, you'd need to make multiple passes. (i.e., shave with a multi-blade, but use it as if it were a DE.) It's a trade-off, I suppose, but given that it's my face, I'll go for less pressure, because of my subjective belief that this will minimize the risk of irritation to my skin.

CDG33 said:

Great post. Very interesting. I had actually posted a comment about the GL this evening. I've also been and found it to be great.

BTW, what did you think of their products? Did you purchase any. I know you said you used AOL pre shave, but was curious as to why you did not use GL. I think that stuff is their best product. What cream was you using with your shave.

Also, you were talking about the prep experience. What all did they do besides hot towels?

I am also wondering on the days I use their cream how I can make it similar to their hot lather without needing a hot lather machine. Anyone have any thoughts?

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I think GL products are first-rate. Their Beard Destroyer, however, is a non-lathering rub on, rub in type of thing, and while you can work up a lather with it if you try hard enough, their claim is that you'll get the best shave just rubbing it in over their pre-shave oil. For those of us who enjoy working up a lather with a brush, that's a problem.

The reason I used AOS pre-shave rather than GL is that the day I visited the GL shop to commence my experiment, they were out of the oil. I think any oil, as long as it's a very light one would work. I went back to the GL and spoke with one of their people who said the most important thing about the pre-shave oil is to use a small amount, work it in really agressively and then let it sit for a full two minutes. My experience: they're right. It made a big difference using it their way.

In terms of the GL experience itself, they use 6 hot towels and one ice cold towel. Totally relaxing, softens the beard, makes each hair stand up, and--as I've said many times on this forum, the closest, most comfortable shave I've ever had, with no post-shave irritation whatsoever.

As far as the latherizer goes, I think those found their way into barber shops because they were convenient--you got a hot, wet lather instantly, and for sanitary reasons: you didn't use a brush and cup on one face after the other. I think that working up your own lather still beats the stuff coming out of a machine.

ravkesef said:

I think that's a theoretical construct. In my judgment, a single pass with a multi-blade cartridge razor would not yield a close enough shave unless you were willing to bear down hard enough, and if you do that, then you're increasing the risk of irritation to your skin, razor burn, etc. However, David, your point is well taken: The DE is intended for multiple passes, the M3 and Fusion are supposed to give you that "perfect shave" after a single pass. That's part of their advertising--you don't have to go over your face again and again to get a good shave. Frankly, I think it's a tossup--if you want to make a single pass (or even--1 up and one down, or something like that,) you'd need to bear down. If you don't bear down, you'd need to make multiple passes. (i.e., shave with a multi-blade, but use it as if it were a DE.) It's a trade-off, I suppose, but given that it's my face, I'll go for less pressure, because of my subjective belief that this will minimize the risk of irritation to my skin.

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Yeah, my point was to consider is that the engineering behind the cartridge razor requires bearing down or it is a very painful/un-close shave. The pads in front of the razor must lift the hair so that the hair can be lifted and cut. This makes the multi-blade cartridge razors very hard on the face if you require more than one pass. The quality of a single pass of a DE is more related to your pre-shave method and technique than the razor's engineering. We agree on your conclusion but thought it is difficult to compare with such sources of variation. It is still very fun to read your experiences and thanks for sharing.

david

This is my promised followup on the Six Day Challenge when I said I would add the sensor to the lineup.
To sum up what I learned,
The DE, properly used gave the least irritation, but also the shortest time to stubble.
Both the M3 and the Fusion would give a closer shave, but the nature of the cartridge requires that it be pressed against the face for it to work, thereby increasing the likelihood of irritation. In fact, since these are intended as single pass devices, you really won't get a close shave unless you do press it against the skin, allowing the spring mechanism to adjust as you shave, and the blade and hand pressure to do the work.
Propensity for skin irritation was measured using an AV Testing Device. For the uninitiated, this consists of a bottle of Aqua Velva splashed on the face following the cold water treatment. A quantity of Aqua Velva is poured into a cupped palm, rubbed briskly with the opposite palm and patted quickly on the face. A stop watch is then used to measure the time until the waves of pain subside, and normal breathing returns. The bathroom door is kept closed so those in the rest of the house cannot hear the screams of distress subsiding into quiet, sobbing moans.
The meter on the AV testing device registered zero whenever the DE was used. Not so fortunate with the Fusion or the M3, with the AV Tester registering between 5 and 10 with either razor, depending upon technique that particular day. In short, it appears not to matter if you use the M3 or the Fusion. You will get a close shave, but you will increase the likelihood of facial irritation.

Day 7 of test: The Sensor 3 blade.
1. Same technique. no discomfort on the passes, but I used it as a DE, pressing lightly against the skin, but making multiple passes as if I were using a DE. The oil seemed to make a different, and again the shave was definitely closer than with the DE, with a much longer time to stubble.
2. splashing on Aqua Velva slight transient stinging, over in 30 seconds. Then Nivea a/s balm.
3. Through the day, extremely smooth, no discomfort, very close to BBS.

Day 8: The Sensor 3 blade disposable.
1. Same technique, very light pressure, and this time I felt that I was not making any blade to skin contact at all. After two passes, I felt that my beard had been reduced as far as it would go, and so at this point, I decided to pull out all the stops. I stretched, I tugged, I went over several areas repeatedly from all different directions. When I finished, my shave was definitely BBS.
2. AV Testing Device: meter remained resting on zero. No out of body experience with screams echoing in the distance. Nivea a/s balm.

3. Through the day: remained smooth until late evening.

OK, so that's it. The winner, much to my surprise, the Sensor 3 blade disposable (Green package.) This shocked the living daylights out of me, because there was absolutely no stinging, no discomfort of any sort, no ingrowns, and the shave was by far the closest of any I had previously obtained. Definitely not the result I had expected to obtain when I started this.

More later.

Good experiment, very enjoyable thread.

So it's true, Gillette The Best a Man can get

ravkesef said:

OK, so that's it. The winner, much to my surprise, the Sensor 3 blade disposable (Green package.) This shocked the living daylights out of me, because there was absolutely no stinging, no discomfort of any sort, no ingrowns, and the shave was by far the closest of any I had previously obtained. Definitely not the result I had expected to obtain when I started this.
More later.

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Well, this is interesting. Last summer I plunked down about $75 for a Merkur safety razor (figuring I'd soon save that money back by avoiding the Gilette tax).

At first I nicked myself a lot, but I soon learned how to avoid that. I learned to put no pressure on the blade and the importance of beard reduction over beard elimination. I tried shaving only with the grain, shaving with+across, with+across+against, with+against, etc. I also tried several different brands of blade and different settings on the handle. I eventually found the best combo and became satisfied with my shaves.

However, about a month ago I ran out of DE blades and had to grab one of my wife's Sensor 3 disposable razors (unused, of course). WOW! The Sensor 3 shave was quicker, more comfortable, longer lasting and gave me the proverbial baby butt shave. After two weeks I got less neck irritation too.

So, I have to agree 100% with your results. The Sensor 3 is definitely better.

The downside is that the Sensors cost two to four times as much as the DE blades (depending on where and when you get them), and they look really cheap in the stand next to the bowl and brush.