Getting into knife sharpening

How do you learn to keep the bevel angle consistent? For honing straight razors it's simple because you lay the razor flat and keep both the spine and cutting edge on the hone.
When I try to freehand hone a kitchen knive I feel like I have a hard time keeping the bevel angle consistent between passes and along the cutting edge, especially near the tip.

superbleu said:

How do you learn to keep the bevel angle consistent? For honing straight razors it's simple because you lay the razor flat and keep both the spine and cutting edge on the hone.
When I try to freehand hone a kitchen knive I feel like I have a hard time keeping the bevel angle consistent between passes and along the cutting edge, especially near the tip.

Click to expand...

Practice, practice, practice...

superbleu said:

How do you learn to keep the bevel angle consistent? For honing straight razors it's simple because you lay the razor flat and keep both the spine and cutting edge on the hone.
When I try to freehand hone a kitchen knive I feel like I have a hard time keeping the bevel angle consistent between passes and along the cutting edge, especially near the tip.

Click to expand...

Haha As Chris said practice!

If your knife has been honed on a stone before,you can often get a feel for the bevel "clicking up"on the stone, a little water squeegees out when you are locked in. Some factory bevels are not easy to duplicate, so having it done once first by a pro can make it much easier later when you do it yourself.

Jim said:

Haha As Chris said practice!

If your knife has been honed on a stone before,you can often get a feel for the bevel "clicking up"on the stone, a little water squeegees out when you are locked in. Some factory bevels are not easy to duplicate, so having it done once first by a pro can make it much easier later when you do it yourself.

Click to expand...

practice is right... holding a knife steady can be difficult. I've found through teaching other people that clip on knife guides can be useful as a learning instrument (though i think they are horrible to use for real sharpening). If you spend 1 sharpening session using a clip on guide and really focusing on your muscle memory and holding the angle consistently, i think you will see a great improvement in your ability to hold a consistent angle (or at least thats what i've noticed with people i've been teaching).

I also want to say this about angles... picking a specific angle or matching an existing angle is not that important (though i is good to be able to do). Really, all you need to do is pick any angle that you can hold consistently and use that... dont change the angle. If you find you want a sharper edge, make the angle more acute... if the edge is too fragile, make the angle more obtuse. Its really that simple.

JBroida said:

Actually, i think he sold out already... sorry. I normally offer those, but i am currently sold out as well.

Click to expand...

Darn, I had hoped this wasn't the case. I'm gonna need some stones to go with my new knives when I make my order.

let me know if what you're interested in and i'll see if i can find you what you want

Here's a world renowned knife expert, and a guy sharpening for him.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOuXq2nlLik[/YOUTUBE]

Memories!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bkwvnxt57s[/YOUTUBE]

I am a sculptor and i am always using japanese wet stones.

I have a number of different stones that i use. I have a shapton 1000,2000,5000, and 8000. Plus a flattening plate to keep them level.

I think the shaptons are a little over prices but a great stone. They do not require soaking the stones before hand. You just pour on some water and off you go.

I also have the norton range of wet stone 1000, 4000, and 8000. I think those are a great inexpensive stone to start with.

I think that there are endless amounts of stones out there to pick from. I would recommend some way to flatten the wet stones because eventually they will dish out and need reflattening. There are a bunch of ways to do this. You can flatten the stones on Silicon Carbide and i piece of granite or thick glass. There a variety of ceramic flattening stones, diamond plates, and steel flattening plates also.

I started out with cheap chisels and gouges to get the hang of things before i started getting into my expensive cutting tools.

After awhile i experienced sharpen as a kind of meditative process, the same motion over and over.

I think maintaining the angle of the blade is key to the sharpen process. I found that i would lock my elbows and use my arms to maintain the proper blade angle.

I hope some of that is helpful.

James

That is some truly great videos. Ouch some great stuff. Thanks to all contributing information. I am saving for some stones.

Surprised no one has mentioned a leather strop (unless I missed it). I'm also a member of bladeforums and have some experience with knife sharpening.

The 1,4,8k set should be fine. Norton is a respectable brand and a good starting point. If you REALLY get into it, check out the Japanese stones (and their prices!).

A leather strop + compound could be added if you wanted too. You actually don't need to buy a strop, an old leather belt (thrift store?) could be used too. Ideally you'd like it wider then 1.5 inches tho. You could always buy a piece of leather and make your own strop too. Most people use the green compound for general stropping. Search out this site (the st8 razor guys) and utube for more stropping advice.

I wouldn't spend too much $ buying knives to practice on. Hit the local thrift, pawn, flea markets, etc and find a selection of knives. Ideally, you'd want a variety of steels. Although the form of sharpening knives is the same, different steels take an edge differently. 420j vs AUS8 vs 154cm vs 01 tool steel can take different slightly different learning curves to achieve hair shaving perfection!

ps Most of my experience is pocket knives, not kitchen stuff.

Recently I had the misfortune of dropping my kitchen sharpening stone (a rather expensive Naniwa water stone) into the sink. This reduced it to a handful of gravel in short order. However, having a pressing need to deal with 10" chef's knife (which my significant other had recently used to slice bread... on a ceramic platter), I tried my shop stone. This is a DMT diamond duo-stone (medium and course), which I have used to sharpen chisels and plane irons for quite a few years. I found that the ease and speed with which it put an edge on the chef's knife was nothing short of amazing. It required less than half the time and the results were every bit as good. The only issue I would have with the DMT stone is the price. I paid a bit over $50 several years ago. Thinking that I would get another for the kitchen, I found that the price is now over $100! The word about a good thing does get around I suppose.

superbleu said:

How do you learn to keep the bevel angle consistent? For honing straight razors it's simple because you lay the razor flat and keep both the spine and cutting edge on the hone.
When I try to freehand hone a kitchen knive I feel like I have a hard time keeping the bevel angle consistent between passes and along the cutting edge, especially near the tip.

Click to expand...

This is difficult at first, but this is what I did when I first began knife sharpening:

Using a sharpie, draw over the entire bevel, and past a little bit.
Place a stack of pennies (3 or 4 to start) at the end of your stone (preferably a higher grit stone so you don't accidentally change the bevel), place the knife on the stone, and rest the spine of the knife on the pennies. It doesn't matter where on the spine you start, as long as you hit the same spot each time.
Pull the knife towards you, away from the pennies, and push it back, so the spine touches the pennies in the same spot.

Check the mark you made with the sharpie. If only the top of the bevel is erased, your angle is too shallow, and repeat the process with an extra penny, repeat as necessary. If only the bottom of the bevel is erased, your angle is too deep, and you need to remove a penny.

Once you have the correct height, the sharpie becomes unnecessary, and just hit the stack in the same spot each time. After weeks of practice, you won't need the pennies, until you want to sharpen a different knife

Some tips:

If you're like me, you're probably using too much pressure. Let the stone do the work.
Keep your wrist relaxed, and don't push down.
*listen*. It may be difficult to feel the correct angle, but a lot of the time it just sounds different if you're off.

All I use is a belt sander. Depending on how bad the blade is dinged up I'll start out with anywhere from a 120grit down to a 80grit belt for the bad ones then hit them with a 320grit to give the cutting edge a nice shine and get rid of some of the burr then take it to a buffing wheel and they look like new. All it takes is a light touch and a little technique, done in less than 5min.

duderdo said:

This is difficult at first, but this is what I did when I first began knife sharpening:

Using a sharpie, draw over the entire bevel, and past a little bit.
Place a stack of pennies (3 or 4 to start) at the end of your stone (preferably a higher grit stone so you don't accidentally change the bevel), place the knife on the stone, and rest the spine of the knife on the pennies. It doesn't matter where on the spine you start, as long as you hit the same spot each time.
Pull the knife towards you, away from the pennies, and push it back, so the spine touches the pennies in the same spot.

Check the mark you made with the sharpie. If only the top of the bevel is erased, your angle is too shallow, and repeat the process with an extra penny, repeat as necessary. If only the bottom of the bevel is erased, your angle is too deep, and you need to remove a penny.

Once you have the correct height, the sharpie becomes unnecessary, and just hit the stack in the same spot each time. After weeks of practice, you won't need the pennies, until you want to sharpen a different knife

Some tips:

If you're like me, you're probably using too much pressure. Let the stone do the work.
Keep your wrist relaxed, and don't push down.
*listen*. It may be difficult to feel the correct angle, but a lot of the time it just sounds different if you're off.

Click to expand...

I'm in agreement with using as many means possible to ensure you have a consistent angle. Use coins to give yourself a guide while drawing the blade over the stone. Use the sharpie mark to ensure you're removing enough material to get a clean edge.

ENSURE you're sharpening stone is FLAT! Everyone who get's great results swear by this! You can either use a flattening stone, or a more coarse stone to flatten your sharpening stone. Simply use a pencil to draw lines accross the stone, then flatten it until the lines disapear.

A strop may also help your final results as with the compound it will mimick an incredibly fine stone. This will not "sharpen" your blade, but will clean it off after using a stone and can provide amazing results. If you're hard up or can't find one. Simply use some newspaper (as you would a strop).

Lastly, ensure you're paying attention to the pressure exerted throughout the process.

Good Luck!

Many custom knife makers go this route..........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLjFjT4vYsM

If you want more precision you can go this route:





This is the KME kit. It works like a Lansky but is made 10 times better. I get terrific results with all the stones, and you can polish down scalpel sharp.
I like convex-ground blades though, and that is superior in my opinion to just about any other edge. Might be time to pny up for a slack-belt machine.
Brent.

many knife makers rave about this setup

You will want something coarser than 1K for initial honing on some new knives, or removing chips and dings from others or bringing back very dull knives. The 4-way diamond hone I got for $12 from Harbor Freight makes short work of removing a lot of steel. It has 200, 300, 400, and 600 grit plates and is about 2-1/2" x 8" on a side. For many knives, such a setup would be sufficient. Usually there is no reason to go beyond 4K when sharpening knives. Keeping a consistent bevel becomes a greater issue than the grit of the stone when you get to the 4K level, and as has been pointed out, a silky smooth edge is often not desired on a knife blade. I think you would do well to have at least one diamond plate around 300 or 400 grit and one 1k waterstone.

In a way, razor honing is simpler than knife honing. The spine of a razor serves as a built in foolproof bevel guide. With knives, you will need a different system. I eyeball mine but I know with a perfect (haven't really found one yet) bevel guide system mine would come out better, quicker. If you are learning, you can make a wedge of the desired angle and use that to check your angle. There are systems like that from Spyderco that are nice especially for straight edged knives like the tanto or sheepfoot type. However you approach it, keeping a good bevel angle is much more important than the stone itself. With a compound bevel, it is even more exacting.

wow, I now regret getting the electric sharpener from target a year ago.

-Gianni-