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how to properly use Coticule.?

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chess1

chess1

i hope this will help people who is struggling to use Coticules.
At first i should mention coticules are natural stones.
Their grit will differ from 4k-8k level sometimes 10k.
I have seen always People advice to use Coticules by making slurry ,then diluting etc.
i Think this is misguiding.
I understand more people will be against me then agree with me .
In fact if anyone could answer this question or show me what i am looking for then i would be gladly change my mind.
Now has anyone ever seen boxed coticule with slurry stone?(old ones)
As many of you seen or owned Escher's which do have boxed stone including slurry stone?
Coticule always been used with water, lather, or Oil.
the finest edge you can get using it with oil.
fastest cutting action you will rich by using lather.
Question is can you use it with slurry and sharpen razor faster?
Yes you can but it is not the proper way to use it and it is not faster.
you are decreasing life span of the stone.
I did test this and results was .
you will get maximum out of the coticule spending less time just by using water then using it with slurry then diluting and getting the final edge from the stone.
Let me explain this a little more.
if you take the coticule
then make slurry and hone the blade.
then diluting slurry slowly until you will end up with water and make strokes curtain amount to get final edge from the stone.(takes 300-500 strokes total .sometimes more)
This process will take more time then just using your coticule with water without making slurry etc.
Go head test yourself and see what happens. good luck

You will spend less time .
hope this helps.
 
Woodash

Woodash

chess1 said:
i hope this will help people who is struggling to use Coticules.
At first i should mention coticules are natural stones.
Their grit will differ from 4k-8k level sometimes 10k.
I have seen always People advice to use Coticules by making slurry ,then diluting etc.
i Think this is misguiding.
I understand more people will be against me then agree with me .In fact if anyone could answer this question or show me what i am looking for then i would be gladly change my mind.
Now has anyone ever seen boxed coticule with slurry stone?(old ones)
As many of you seen or owned Escher's which do have boxed stone including slurry stone?
Coticule always been used with water, lather, or Oil.
the finest edge you can get using it with oil.
fastest cutting action you will rich by using lather.
Question is can you use it with slurry and sharpen razor faster?
Yes you can but it is not the proper way to use it and it is not faster.
you are decreasing life span of the stone.
I did test this and results was .
you will get maximum out of the coticule spending less time just by using water then using it with slurry then diluting and getting the final edge from the stone.
Let me explain this a little more.
if you take the coticule
then make slurry and hone the blade.
then diluting slurry slowly until you will end up with water and make strokes curtain amount to get final edge from the stone.(takes 300-500 strokes total .sometimes more)
This process will take more time then just using your coticule with water without making slurry etc.
Go head test yourself and see what happens. good luck

You will spend less time .
hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Permission requested to use this quote in my signature line. :001_rolle

I think there are plenty of points of discussion, but unfortunatly, it is late (where I am) and I will let someone else take the first crack at it.

Oh, alright - I'll make one coment: I'd guess that you would probably see a gravestone being weathered away in a tropical climate faster than you would in any meaningful way 'decrease the lifespan of [a coticule] of normal thickness by honing. (Damn Paul - you types fast!)
 
Last edited:
SliceOfLife

SliceOfLife

Coticule always been used with water, lather, or Oil.
the finest edge you can get using it with oil.
fastest cutting action you will rich by using lather.
Click to expand...

You do realize that vintage stone docs often refer to slurry as lather right? For example there are many vintage hones (with and without slurry stones) with documentation that said to rub the surface of the stone "until a lather is produced" and then hone.

Edit: Attached a photo of the instructions on the lid of my 100+ yr old Nat'l Hone and Soap Co. Barber boxed Thuringian w/ slurry.
 
Last edited:
K

kehern

SliceOfLife said:
You do realize that vintage stone docs often refer to slurry as lather right? For example there are many vintage hones (with and without slurry stones) with documentation that said to rub the surface of the stone "until a lather is produced" and then hone.

Edit: Attached a photo of the instructions on the lid of my 100+ yr old Nat'l Hone and Soap Co. Barber boxed Thuringian w/ slurry.
Click to expand...

I do not mean to derail this thread, but is that sticker correct when it says that you cannot overhone a razor with that particular hone? And how does that hone stop that from happening. Sorry if my question is a bit off topic...
 
Disburden

Disburden

I just got an S.R. Droescher coticule N.O.S in the mail the other day, mint box, etc. It says right on the box to use lather, water, or oil for fine edge. Has anyone tried using coticules with oil? I would think it would soak into the stone and make it an oil stone and I wouldn't want to have the coticule for just oil, I'd want it for water and slurry purposes too.

I have seen the video on youtube of the old barber using slurry on his coticule...
I will say I definitely like this vintage coticule over my "new" one I bought a few years ago, but it could be I am biased towards old stones. :lol:
 
chess1

chess1

what i said is you can get out of the stone finest edge using oil.
Can you use slurry as i mention -- yes you can but will be a lot easier just use water and get the finest edge out of stone.
this will not confuse user and is not complicated.
End result which we all looking is take out of the stone finest edge simplest way.
 
Joe Edson

Joe Edson

Utilizing the improved dilucot method from Bart's website I can go off my DMT 1200 to coticule finish in around 10 minutes. To me this isn't a long time and the fact that I can do it with just one stone makes it that much easier. Not worried about the lifespan of my stones as I'm certain they will out live me.

Maybe I'll try going off my DMT to just coti with water, but I highly doubt I'll get a shave ready edge after 10 minutes. Not saying it isn't possible, but based on the feedback of my coti's I highly doubt it.

I happen to have 3 coti's and all of them give me a shave worthy edge.
 
SliceOfLife

SliceOfLife

kehern said:
I do not mean to derail this thread, but is that sticker correct when it says that you cannot overhone a razor with that particular hone? And how does that hone stop that from happening. Sorry if my question is a bit off topic...
Click to expand...

I'd assume that's the reason it says to always hone with slurry and not to backhone. Or possibly just marketing assuming that Thuri's are slow enough you won't wire edge on them. I've never tried to prove the claim wrong.


Disburden, Coticules are evidently nonporous. I have never had a oil coated Coti, but the BBW I got that was oil soaked cleaned up very easily in a matter of minutes.


Harvitz, I suspect this is where his 3% figure comes from. I'd be willing to believe that 3% of coticules can actually hone from a freshly beveled stone to something similar to an 8k finish in about ten minutes without slurry. Probably some mid-high of average autoslurriers.
 
Last edited:
Joe Edson

Joe Edson

SliceOfLife said:
I'd assume that's the reason it says to always hone with slurry and not to backhone. Or possibly just marketing assuming that Thuri's are slow enough you won't wire edge on them. I've never tried to prove the claim wrong.


Disburden, Coticules are evidently nonporous. I have never had a oil coated Coti, but the BBW I got that was oil soaked cleaned up very easily in a matter of minutes.


Harvitz, I suspect this is where his 3% figure comes from. I'd be willing to believe that 3% of coticules can actually hone from a freshly beveled stone to something similar to an 8k finish in about ten minutes without slurry. Probably some mid-high of average autoslurriers.
Click to expand...


One of the coti's I bought on eBay in a barber's lot was so coated with oil that I thought from the eBay picture that it was a thurri. It was obviously heavy used and used with oil so I don't doubt that they were used that way. Cleaned up super easy to so I can concur that they seem non-porous.

Maybe someday I'll experiment on it.

Slice, I do have a ridulously fast coti on slurry so maybe I'll give that one a try on just water after the DMT and see how it fairs.
 
A

altshaver

chess1 said:
i hope this will help people who is struggling to use Coticules.
At first i should mention coticules are natural stones.
Their grit will differ from 4k-8k level sometimes 10k.
I have seen always People advice to use Coticules by making slurry ,then diluting etc.
i Think this is misguiding.
I understand more people will be against me then agree with me .
In fact if anyone could answer this question or show me what i am looking for then i would be gladly change my mind.
Now has anyone ever seen boxed coticule with slurry stone?(old ones)
As many of you seen or owned Escher's which do have boxed stone including slurry stone?
Coticule always been used with water, lather, or Oil.
the finest edge you can get using it with oil.
fastest cutting action you will rich by using lather.
Question is can you use it with slurry and sharpen razor faster?
Yes you can but it is not the proper way to use it and it is not faster.
you are decreasing life span of the stone.
I did test this and results was .
you will get maximum out of the coticule spending less time just by using water then using it with slurry then diluting and getting the final edge from the stone.
Let me explain this a little more.
if you take the coticule
then make slurry and hone the blade.
then diluting slurry slowly until you will end up with water and make strokes curtain amount to get final edge from the stone.(takes 300-500 strokes total .sometimes more)
This process will take more time then just using your coticule with water without making slurry etc.
Go head test yourself and see what happens. good luck

You will spend less time .
hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting the proper way to utilize the coticule is as a finisher? From what I read, the utilization of continually diluting coticule slurry replaces the multiple grit stones utilized in a progressive honing regimen. As I take it, if you don't use slurry dilutions, you'll not be able to fully hone a straight razor with a single coticule. Thanks in advance for any comments and clarification.
 
wdwrx

wdwrx

altshaver said:
Are you suggesting the proper way to utilize the coticule is as a finisher? From what I read, the utilization of continually diluting coticule slurry replaces the multiple grit stones utilized in a progressive honing regimen. As I take it, if you don't use slurry dilutions, you'll not be able to fully hone a straight razor with a single coticule. Thanks in advance for any comments and clarification.
Click to expand...

It can be done. Takes hundreds of laps. Maybe even into the thousands. (I've lost track) but then.... I'm not above setting a bevel with a Thüringer either.
I lost the plot on the thread at SRP.... but I did learn that I don't want to set a bevel with a coti without using slurry... it's slower than my Thuri!
 
honed

honed

Disburden said:
What kind of oil do you use on a stone, forgive my ignorance I have never honed with oil before.
Click to expand...
Snake Oil is by far the best.
I have to warn you, it can seem kind of expensive first, but when you see the results, it's worth it!
PM me for details...






Or go ahead & take a chance with any light mineral oil.
Baby oil, sewing machine oil or similar.
 
LessLemming

LessLemming

This is a very controversial thread. But I´m fine with it,
I hope anybody else here is, too.

First everybody please realize neither we, nor the guys who made/sold Coticules or such in the vintage times,
knew exactly the right way. Sharpening a razor is craftsmanship.
Craftsmanship has always had its own dogmae and unbreakable rules in its own time.
Interestingly these unbreakable rules were dismissed by the following generetaion frequently.

So what does this say about domgae? They are useless unless you know where they came from!

If a box of vintage Thuringian (look again blue, it´s a thuringian box, not a coti)
says not to use it with oil, that doesn´t keep me from doing it if I want to.
I know if I use it with oil I may have a hard time getting rid of the oil again.
That´s true for a coticule, as well. But does it ruin the stone? Certainly not if I am an Oil-Guy.
Did you never ignore the "do not" or "not recommended" signs on any product and it worked just fine for you?


Ask 100 specialsts and you get at least 100 opinions about whats a do-bee and what´s a don´t-bee.
They will only agree on a couple of things that are not advised to do.




As for Chess1, I have a question regarding what you wanted to say:
Reading your post I come to the opinion you are saying that using a coticule with slurry is no good.
Do you refer to the uNicot method, or all slurried Coticules?

I never got the Unicot working for me, but I use the coticule frequently for a quick bevel set with nice slurry, prior to my 1k.
Then I use the Coticule after the 8k for finishing.

would you not agree that a slurried coticule can be a nice quick bevel-setter,
as well as a good finisher, if a good sharpening set is present (maybe Norton 4/8k in between slurry and water only coticule):

  • Coticule with slurry for bevel set
  • Norton 4k
  • Norton 8k
  • Coticule with water only
 
Last edited:
thanks

thanks

I've seen people say that single stone honing is no good. Now I see someone saying that a Coticule with slurry is no good? This is an interesting one. While I won't go as far as saying someone is wrong in their opinion, I will say that there are a growing number of us who just happen to think otherwise because we've experienced it. It took me a lot of practice, and it was a long time coming before I took a razor from dull as a butterknife to best edge I'd ever held against my face on one Coticule with the help of only a slurry stone, but I have done it. It doesn't take a magical one in a million Coticule to do so either. I find razors finished on any other hone to be too crispy for my tastes now.
 
chess1

chess1

LessLemming said:
This is a very controversial thread. But I´m fine with it,
I hope anybody else here is, too.

First everybody please realize neither we, nor the guys who made/sold Coticules or such in the vintage times,
knew exactly the right way. Sharpening a razor is craftsmanship.
Craftsmanship has always had its own dogmae and unbreakable rules in its own time.
Interestingly these unbreakable rules were dismissed by the following generetaion frequently.

So what does this say about domgae? They are useless unless you know where they came from!

If a box of vintage Thuringian (look again blue, it´s a thuringian box, not a coti)
says not to use it with oil, that doesn´t keep me from doing it if I want to.
I know if I use it with oil I may have a hard time getting rid of the oil again.
That´s true for a coticule, as well. But does it ruin the stone? Certainly not if I am an Oil-Guy.
Did you never ignore the "do not" or "not recommended" signs on any product and it worked just fine for you?


Ask 100 specialsts and you get at least 100 opinions about whats a do-bee and what´s a don´t-bee.
They will only agree on a couple of things that are not advised to do.




As for Chess1, I have a question regarding what you wanted to say:
Reading your post I come to the opinion you are saying that using a coticule with slurry is no good.
Do you refer to the uNicot method, or all slurried Coticules?

I never got the Unicot working for me, but I use the coticule frequently for a quick bevel set with nice slurry, prior to my 1k.
Then I use the Coticule after the 8k for finishing.

would you not agree that a slurried coticule can be a nice quick bevel-setter,
as well as a good finisher, if a good sharpening set is present (maybe Norton 4/8k in between slurry and water only coticule):

  • Coticule with slurry for bevel set
  • Norton 4k
  • Norton 8k
  • Coticule with water only
Click to expand...

i never said slurry won't cut faster etc.
i said if you use slurry and then start to diluting and then using water ends up spending more time then just using water.
go head try it and see what happens.
In most coticules after 20-30 strokes it will form slurry and you just keep adding drop of water when it dries. You don't have to wash stone while you hone until the end.
 
LessLemming

LessLemming

Ah! So you´re saying the unicot method would work without diluting but simply jumping from slurry to without slurry?

I tried this several times before and ended up with a pretty rough bevel,
for my La petite Blanche, My La Grise and with BBWs.

I used milky slurry to reset a bevel and work directly on my coticule with water only. I ended up with a refined edge, but not even close to shave ready.
There was still heavy stickyness and no HHT whatsoever.
I may try it again, though
 
chess1

chess1

LessLemming said:
Ah! So you´re saying the unicot method would work without diluting but simply jumping from slurry to without slurry?

I tried this several times before and ended up with a pretty rough bevel,
for my La petite Blanche, My La Grise and with BBWs.

I used milky slurry to reset a bevel and work directly on my coticule with water only. I ended up with a refined edge, but not even close to shave ready.
There was still heavy stickyness and no HHT whatsoever.
I may try it again, though
Click to expand...

try this and see what happens.
use just water and start to hone.
you will have some slurry formation on the stone after 20-30 strokes. (DON'T WASH slurry etc leave it alone)when you feel your slurry gets dry add couple more drops of water and keep it going until you get the edge you like.
go head make last 10 strokes with just water.
check time how long you did spend with this method and other method.
gl
 
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