Pour Over Wars - Hario V60 vs Kalita 102 vs Kalita Wave

I've been using a V60 for-ever. Yes it's finicky if you don't give it your full attention/skills, but when you nail it, it rewards you with some damn good coffee. But yesterday I noticed my favorite bakery using the same coffee I love - Bicycle Coffee in Oakland CA - but getting slightly better results with their pour over. Damn them!

So I did some spying and noticed they were using a ceramic Kalita dripper, the No. 102 which has 3 small holes in a line at the bottom V of the dripper. Hmmm, I thought, They know something I don't. So I researched things further and realize there now seems to be 3 styles of drippers at the top of the pour over chain - the V60 with one large hole at the bottom of the dripper, the Kalitas that have 3 small holes in a row in the bottom V of the dripper, and now the Kalita Wave with a flat bottom, and 3 small holes.

Tomorrow morning I'll be using a Kalita Wave in stainless steel with the Kalita filters to make my Guatemala Medium Roast from Bicycle Coffee - the same coffee I've been drinking for the past year or so - using the same exact grind, measurements and temperatures when I use the V60. I'll post pics and thoughts then. I have the Kalita 102 on order and will share those results and pics Wednesday or Thursday.

I know, not really very scientific as I should do side by side blind tasting blah blah blah, but it's some damn fine coffee fun nevertheless!

mr_eleven said:

there now seems to be 3 styles of drippers at the top of the pour over chain - the V60 with one large hole at the bottom of the dripper, the Kalitas that have 3 small holes in a row in the bottom V of the dripper, and now the Kalita Wave with a flat bottom, and 3 small holes.

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In the interest of creating a Goldilocks complete system, the reasonably well regarded Bee House dripper has 2 holes.

Honestly though, I think minor differences in drippers have only a very modest effect in the quality of the cup of coffee. Nearly every other factor - type of beans, freshness of beans, how the beans were roasted, how they were ground, the quality of the water, one's "pouring the water over the grounds" technique, temperature control, etc. - strikes me as having at least as much of an impact on the finished product, and often much more of an impact.

Don't get me wrong, if you like the idea of buying a Kalita Wave and playing with your new coffee toy, that's fine. I mean, a man's entitled to engage in his hobby for the sheer pleasure of it, right? And the Kalita's a nice-looking little gadget, no argument there.

I'm just not convinced I could reliably distinguish between coffee brewed with a Kalita Wave, a Hario V60, and a $3 plastic Melitta "Ready Set Joe" pour over, assuming all other factors were kept constant. Yes, I totally understand how, in theory, there are differences between them in terms of drip rate, heat loss, drainage pattern, etc. I'm just not sure these theoretical differences are significant in the real world context of actually drinking the resulting coffee.

But the Kalita Wave is very pretty. And it can be nice using aesthetically pleasing tools. And, as the saying goes, even if it's only a placebo effect, that doesn't mean it's not real.

Interesting! Let us know how it goes, although I suspect there might be more to it than JUST different hardware (namely amount, timing) as Michael said. Looking forward to the update.

12345Michael54321 said:

In the interest of creating a Goldilocks complete system, the reasonably well regarded Bee House dripper has 2 holes.

Honestly though, I think minor differences in drippers have only a very modest effect in the quality of the cup of coffee. Nearly every other factor - type of beans, freshness of beans, how the beans were roasted, how they were ground, the quality of the water, one's "pouring the water over the grounds" technique, temperature control, etc. - strikes me as having at least as much of an impact on the finished product, and often much more of an impact.

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Oh I completely agree with you on all counts. I've been "playing" with my pour over technique, grind size, water temp, coffee to water ratio and etc for too long to remember. Each piece is an integral part of the pour over puzzle. Yet for this goofy little experiment I'll be doing exactly what I've been doing for the past year - same beans, grind, amounts, temp, pour over rate etc. - and only changing the dripper.

Just to see what kind of placebo effect we really got going on here ;-)

I made my first cup with the wave. All things being even, I will say it was slightly more full bodied than usual - maybe due to the longer brew time because of the flat bottom/smaller holes? Whatever it was, I was looking for a bit more flavor from these beans and this may have gotten it for me. A few more cups of coffee will tell...

I used the Wave again this morning, but took my time and poured a little slower, about the same rate as the Hario V60. I've got to say while the Wave gives me a slightly more robust cup, it's not really that much more. In fact, If I just change up my V60 methods a bit I could get the same cup. Sigh.

Now I'm waiting for the 102, which will probably be not that much different from the Wave or the V60 but hey, it's still damn good coffee!!

Now go get some Chemex filters and stick one in your V-60......

Shazzam... it will taste completely different once again.

Filter materials and shapes make for a different taste using the same ground coffee.

My personal favorite for taste are the Chemex filters. Since they fit in any 60 degree dripper you can try them and only have the expense of a few paper filters.

If you are using pre-ground coffee you may not be able to get good extraction. Coffee brew time is dependent on the grind of the beans.

Ohh I like your thinking. I just may try this.
My father was a Chemex diehard so maybe it's time I completed the circle.
I do grind my own beans though - have a nice Capresso in my classroom setup.
I've played with the grind size well enough and leave that setting alone these days and just fiddle with everything else.

turtle said:

Now go get some Chemex filters and stick one in your V-60...... Shazzam... it will taste completely different once again. Filter materials and shapes make for a different taste using the same ground coffee. My personal favorite for taste are the Chemex filters. Since they fit in any 60 degree dripper you can try them and only have the expense of a few paper filters. If you are using pre-ground coffee you may not be able to get good extraction. Coffee brew time is dependent on the grind of the beans.

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mr_eleven said:

I've played with the grind size well enough and leave that setting alone these days and just fiddle with everything else.

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Use your grind setting to control your brew time.

The finer the grind the longer the brew time.

The coarser the grind the faster the brew time.

Shoot for a center of around 4 minutes. Each bean will have a "sweet spot" so don't lock a brew time in stone but move around until the taste tells you where to stop

turtle said:

....Each bean will have a "sweet spot" ....

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I've noticed this. It's kinda cool. I've been using this roast/brand for sometime now but I remember at first it took some dialing in.

So today I was able to use a Bonmac 2-hole dripper, courtesy of one of my fav roasters in Sac-Town - Temple Coffee. Now I know I'm splitting hairs here but dammit if this guy didn't get me something different, and better! Same coffee, grind and amount, same water temp and amount, same pour over speed, and I got a more fuller, rounded taste.

Maybe the best cup of coffee I've made in quite awhile.

So what's next you ask...? Well, a few more mornings with the 2-hole, that's for sure. Then (thanks to [MENTION=47553]turtle[/MENTION]) some Chemex filters and maybe even a full Chemex rig just to see what that's all about. And finally, I just realized/found out that Bonmac makes a single hole dripper so yea, I gotta try that.

I slightly prefer the Wave 185 to the V60 mostly due to it being foolproof to pour. I have a Chemex but their filters strip too much for my taste. My favorite is now the Able Kone. I use it in the Chemex when I want to make a lot of coffee and in the v60 when making a single cup.

jazzguy said:

I have a Chemex but their filters strip too much for my taste...

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Strips too much flavor, or body, or..?

jazzguy said:

I slightly prefer the Wave 185 to the V60 mostly due to it being foolproof to pour. I have a Chemex but their filters strip too much for my taste. My favorite is now the Able Kone. I use it in the Chemex when I want to make a lot of coffee and in the v60 when making a single cup.

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I find the Wave 185 to provide a more robust cup of joe than either the V60 or the Chemex CM-6A that I received a week ago using the same grind, grams of beans and water. Now today I just got in the CoffeeSock for the Chemex that two friends of mind have been raving about so we will see how much of a difference the CoffeeSock makes with the Chemex.

I get a more full-bodied cup with the Wave too, although I'm liking the Bonmac 2-hole even more (the black dripper in the pic a few posts previous). I find the V60 a great, but finicky dripper. With the Wave and the Bonmac I get a better cup, more consistently. I think this is why I never see any coffee houses around here using the V60. They always seem to be using a Kalita or a Bonmac.

Next up is a Bonmac single hole. One of the popular coffee houses around here uses it (Blue Bottle).
All in the name of science...

A little of each I think. It seems to mute acidity slightly as well. I much prefer the Kone.

mr_eleven said:

Strips too much flavor, or body, or..?

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I've been able to make a few more cups with the Bonmac 2-hole and I gotta say it's been working just perfectly. Better (for me) than the Hario V60 and the Kalita Wave. I get very consistent results and a nice full bodied cup with out any harshness at all.

And my new cup seems to complete the whole setup...

Since 1927

I have a rather long update, but it seems you can teach an old dog new tricks...

I've been doing my pour overs for a long time and over time thought I'd found the right water to coffee ratio. Well I had but I also slowly kept bumping up the coffee ratio to get something a bit more robust. Fast forward to this thread and I thought I would just do what I'd always done and see some interesting differences.

Well, what I really found out was my water to coffee ratio was pretty wacked. I had been using 265 grams of water to 23 grams of coffee which is about a 12:1 water to coffee ratio which was giving me a nice robust cup, yet slightly bitter. So I kept dialing the grinder to a courser grind, yet there was still more bitterness than I wanted.

I decided to start completely over - new coffee (Blue Bottle 3 Africans) and a new water to coffee ratio - 16:1 (this was the original ratio I started with way back I don't know how long ago) with the same Bonmac 2-hole dripper and Bonmac filters. And guess what? No more bitterness at all and a great cup! Maybe lacking a bit of body but that's because I had the grind too course. I've already dialed it a bit finer for tomorrow.

I've also learned that I love all this coffee science stuff!

I think you've talked me into the Bonmac 2 hole dripper. I have the single hole and it makes good cups, but I always go back to my Kalita 185 or Americanos (depends on if I have the 'spro machine up and running).

Off to Temple's website I go!

Coffee science is cool, agreed. I've done a few thousand pours with a V60 and I'm still learning how to achieve full extraction. Once you've exhausted all variables may I suggest investing in a PPM meter. According to the SCAA shoot for Ideal Total Dissolve Solids at 75-250 with a target of 150 PPM. I have an RO system. My SoCal water is criminal, and varying PPM readings is easily achievable by mixing tap and RO water into my Hario kettle. When I got away from straight RO water and started adding in more minerals it made a noticeable difference in the taste of my coffee. Do you need to do this, absolutely not. Do I enjoy adding it to my mad scientist routine, yes!


~Royce