Ignorance is lack of information. Just because some folks, including me, don't care for his voice doesn't make anyone ignorant. It's all a matter of personal likes and dislikes. I can appreciate the lyrics he wrote and many artists recorded these songs with success. However, his voice doesn't appeal to me.
Bob Dylan Gets the Nobel Prize
- Thread starter Mick
- Start date
Ignorance is lack of information. Just because some folks, including me, don't care for his voice doesn't make anyone ignorant. It's all a matter of personal likes and dislikes. I can appreciate the lyrics he wrote and many artists recorded these songs with success. However, his voice doesn't appeal to me.
Understood. I still feel many comments here are based on lack of understanding or ignorance. I'm not about to declare anyone ignorant based on a single forum post, but think some of the comments are.
To address the comments on this voice....the award was for literature. His singing voice has nothing to do with the award.
To address the comments on this voice....the award was for literature. His singing voice has nothing to do with the award.
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Best to build on the positive certainly. There were certainly comments made above that were made without having sufficient information. To be specific there is one comment that seems to be to me, and I may be wrong, alluding to incest. This song was written and preformed by Dylan in response to Joan Biez, another artist (Jim would know but saying this for context). This conflict between Dylan and Biez is fairly well known.
That being said . . . best to build and inform, educate.
No sir, I don't. I do know some things of the era that portrays however, and I am pretty sure I know where you were headed with that.
I have a very broad taste in music. Things from classical, to classic rock, to dark cabaret/industrial, to heavy metal. About the only two genres I really really have trouble listening to, are modern country and rap. For me, if there is talent shown, even in genres I don't listen to, I can appreciate it for what it is. As a vocalist I do not think he was talented at all.
That said, I understand the award was not for vocals, and stated that to be fair I looked up lyrics. There were a couple that I could appreciate, but no more than many others out there. There also were some, including a few I mentioned, that were just... well, not good.
There are bands like Queensryche and Manowar that put on the equivalent of a metal musical. Each song feeds off of and continues the previous to tell an entire story throughout the concert. In my opinion, much better than many of the things I read from Mr. Dylan. They deserve a lot of praise for the creativity and writing talent put into their albums. Heck even the bands Five Finger Deathpunch and Slipknot write some very meaningful and deep songs. I still do not believe that they deserve a Nobel prize for a few songs though.
While I have no "education" past high-school, I don't feel that I am ignorant. (And yes, I understand you meant it in it's proper definition and not as an insult)
I still feel knowledgeable enough to be able to judge what I feel is talented or meaningful. While I respect Mr. Dylan has more talent as a writer than I could ever hope to, I still do not feel it was worthy of a Nobel prize.
I admit I can be a bit crass and unrefined, but I didn't mean to offend you with my opinion.
That, I will admit I did not know. To just read or hear the lyrics without knowing there was a story behind it, there isn't much to point you in any other direction. Kind of like an inside joke, you get it, but no one else does.
There's more to it than just his words. You also have to look at it in the context of the times he was writing in. He was carrying on and building upon those who came before him and in turn, was a big influence on his contemporaries and those who followed him. He gave voice to a generation in a time of great historical changes in our society. (A title bestowed upon him that he apparently didn't really like or accept.)
Bingo.
As stated above, there are many other artists that are gifted and talented in writing but not known. Dylan was the face and voice of his time, right time, right place.
I will agree with this statement. His presence on stage and his performances reached out to many people, and his music touched many. To me, that is great. Even though I am not a fan, I honestly respect what he did and commend him for being what he was. As a musician he is definitely a legend.
The thing I have an issue with, is that I feel literature should be read. If I read something, I should be able to get what the writer is trying to say. I shouldn't need a history lesson and all of the inside information just to understand it. Without the timeline and the music, there isn't much there in his lyrics. Some of them when read without the "moment" of the timeline, or the accompanying music, are just babble.
To me, that is not literature, those are lyrics.
Despite my crass comments above, I do honestly feel Bob Dylan has a very strong and deserved place in music. I do not feel he deserves that place in literature.
We are discussing a person who has been recording music for 50 years.
He probably has written between 400 - 500 songs.
I'm making a terrible hurtful wild guess. Have you even read 500 words he has written before you come to your conclusion that the award was undeserved? Do you think, maybe, that the committee who recommended Bob Dylan for the Nobel Prize for Literature, may have spent a bit more time studying?
Do you have some other writer in mind who should have been the recipient of the prize?
John Steinbeck and Alice Munro have/had such lovely singing voices. Sorry, those are the only two Lit Nobel winners I can think of off the top of my head.
That said, "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" from John Wesley Harding is as close to poetry as I know of.
Funny, the esteemed Nobel Comittee is unable to get in touch with Bob to confirm the ceremony details.
That said, "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" from John Wesley Harding is as close to poetry as I know of.
Funny, the esteemed Nobel Comittee is unable to get in touch with Bob to confirm the ceremony details.
Well, that's Bob.
This is what I have explained multiple times now as my issue. He was awarded a Nobel prize for literature. In 1965 when he released like a rolling stone, where were people?
I would be very willing to bet that they were not lined up at the local Barnes and Noble to get the hardback edition. They were at the concert venues waiting for him to perform it.
It is a song. Yes it was written, but it was written to be performed, not read. Literature is meant to be read. There has to be some lines drawn somewhere, or the next thing we know the meow mix jingle will be in the rock and roll hall of fame because there is "music" in it. That is where my issue is.
Also, I am not the first nor only person in history that has ever questioned a decision made by the Nobel committee. I am also not the only one in the world that questions this one.
I'm not questioning him as a musician, I am questioning what he has published in written works to qualify him for a literary award.
I want this to remain civil, so having stated my opinion and understanding yours, and I am going to bow out.
(Just to be clear Mike, I'm not saying you were in any way uncivil. I just think we are at an impasse.)
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Some of the folks here are trying to make his song writing into poetry. Your comment on the Nobel committee are right on. One can get the feeling that some of the awards are based on politics rather than merit, IMHO.
I disagree strongly. If something must meant to be read in order to be literature, then you just tossed out everything that came before modern, mass publishing, not to mention literacy that was hardly prevalent until the late 19th century.
Poetry has been sung, and so performed, since ancient times.
Okay, if we're going the published-something-on-pages-and-put-between-covers route, I've read Dylan's memoirs. Is is great literature? Nope, not by a long shot (although I did discover he was a huge hockey fan, and after moving to NY, become well versed with the Rangers' line up of the mid 60's...so, he's got that going for him).
Dylan deserving of the literature prize? Sure, why not. It got a thread on B&B, so that's praise enough, right?
My only question is when the Peace Prize committee will award theirs to Keef Richards?
Let's face it, just what kind of world are we going to leave Keef?
Dylan deserving of the literature prize? Sure, why not. It got a thread on B&B, so that's praise enough, right?
My only question is when the Peace Prize committee will award theirs to Keef Richards?
Let's face it, just what kind of world are we going to leave Keef?
I'm a little late to the party on this one but would like to offer a few thoughts.
In my view, song lyrics are indeed poetry. In fact, in the 1980s a hardback book of Dylan's lyrics was published by one of the big publishing houses. It was titled simply "Lyrics" and the verse did fine on its own.
For an interesting take on Dylan's lyrics as poetry, search out the readings of his lyrics by the late actor, Sebastian Cabot.
Dylan's voice, musicianship, and personality certainly aren't for everyone but his body of work merits respect. Is it Nobel-worthy? The Nobel prize committee thinks so and it's their opinion that matters. Would he get the Tralfaz Prize for Literature? I'm not sure as the committee has yet to convene.
In my view, song lyrics are indeed poetry. In fact, in the 1980s a hardback book of Dylan's lyrics was published by one of the big publishing houses. It was titled simply "Lyrics" and the verse did fine on its own.
For an interesting take on Dylan's lyrics as poetry, search out the readings of his lyrics by the late actor, Sebastian Cabot.
Dylan's voice, musicianship, and personality certainly aren't for everyone but his body of work merits respect. Is it Nobel-worthy? The Nobel prize committee thinks so and it's their opinion that matters. Would he get the Tralfaz Prize for Literature? I'm not sure as the committee has yet to convene.
Yep
Plenty of literature requires some knowledge of history. Take Tennyson's Charge of the Light Brigade for example. Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamzov also benefits from some knowledge of the time and place.
I wish I had all of the "inside information" to more fully appreciate works like Gulliver's Travels or Through the Looking Glass. Great literature is replete with historical, scientific, biblical, and other references.
The lyrics of Dylan's songs can be found here.
http://bobdylan.com/songs/
Read the lyrics of "Desolation Row", "Gates of Eden", and " Ballad of a Thin Man" and you'll understand why he deserves the Nobel Prize for Literature.
http://bobdylan.com/songs/
Read the lyrics of "Desolation Row", "Gates of Eden", and " Ballad of a Thin Man" and you'll understand why he deserves the Nobel Prize for Literature.
