New to Straight Razor shaving

Hello all,
My father has been a barber for 40+ years.
I'm 34 and for around the past 10 years I've had a thin chinstrap beard.
I started with your typical Gillette commercial razors. I began to realize, after cutting holes in my chinstrap on several occasions, that the razor itself impedes much of the view. I started thinking that a straight razor would be perfect for solving this. I asked my dad about it and he bought me a straight razor/safety razor (w/ disposable blades).

I decided that I wanted a "real" straight razor after watching how he used his. Also, I was inspired by how he talked about his "Henckel" being the best they make.

So... The eBay shopping began. I decided that I wanted a "Henckel's" for sure.. but I couldn't find any help on how or what to choose. I bid on 2 different "Henckel's." I actually forgot about my first bid of $60 because I thought I'd never win it. I did. The $60 one is posted here.

A few questions. Any help is much appreciated.
1. How old is this razor?
2. Where do Henckel's stand as straight razors? Are they "the best?" If so why?
3. Did I get a decent deal?
4. There are no numbers on this razor. Is this a 415? What's an NOS? I'm assuming NOS means not otherwise specified, right?
5. My dad swears that he can hand strop a razor as well as anyone can leather strop a razor, is there any truth to this?
6. Where can I find a really old razor for sale? Are there any antique functioning razors for sale that are 100 or more years old?


Finally a side note. When discussing stropping we began watching films on here of people stropping and honing. My dad immediately noticed that most of the films we watched featured guys who didn't "roll" the blade. Instead they picked the blade up, off the surface, and turned it over. He was very adamant that anyone doing that has no idea how to properly strop a razor. Thoughts on this? Isn't it always proper to roll the blade on it's spine?

I know I'm asking a lot, but again I'm new!
Any help or feedback is greatly appreciated.
I'd like to buy some products on here but every post I go to says "sold."

Nicklaus said:

A few questions. Any help is much appreciated.
1. How old is this razor?
2. Where do Henckel's stand as straight razors? Are they "the best?" If so why?
3. Did I get a decent deal?
4. There are no numbers on this razor. Is this a 415? What's an NOS? I'm assuming NOS means not otherwise specified, right?
5. My dad swears that he can hand strop a razor as well as anyone can leather strop a razor, is there any truth to this?
6. Where can I find a really old razor for sale? Are there any antique functioning razors for sale that are 100 or more years old?
I know I'm asking a lot, but again I'm new!
Any help or feedback is greatly appreciated.
I'd like to buy some products on here but every post I go to says "sold."

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1. Probably produced in the early to mid 1900s.
2. "The best" is very subjective. They are great razors with a stellar reputation. I have them and like them a lot.
3. Valuations are prohibited by the forum rules. You can check sold listings on ebay for this.
4. Similar to a 415, but not sure. NOS= New Old Stock.
5. Stropping is also quite subjective. You have to do what works for you. Most will use a leather strop in some form.
6. There are a LOT of vendors who sell old razors. Yes, lots of great shaving razors 100+ years old.

You will need a minimum post count to buy in the BST.

These are the short answers to your questions from my view. There is a lot to learn about straight razors and you are in the right place. Do some reading and searches. Post your questions in the correct forums to get the best answers.

Welcome to the best shaving site on the net.

Thanks so much. That helps!

What Alpster said.

Henckels is a fine brand. However, most of the old famous brands are equally good. Me, I think highly of the Dovo Bismarck or the Red Injun, and I am also partial to Dubl Ducks. My favorite razors are Gold Dollars that I have heavily modified to suit me exactly. "The Best" razor usually is one that you have and that you particularly like for whatever reason.

I don't believe palm stropping can do as good a job as stropping on a proper strop. However, anybody who fiercely believes that his palm stropping is best, probably cannot be convinced otherwise. And his perception will always be that the last razor he palm stropped gave the best shave ever. Get yourself a proper strop, and learn to use it well.Let your dad do his thing in peace.

Lots of razors out there that are well over the 100 year mark. Occasionally an old stubtail wedge shows up that is over 200 years old. These razors definitely have their fans, but I believe that the best thing that ever happened in the shaving world was the invention of the hollowground razor. A hollowground hones more easily and precisely, and shaves excellently. It was a tremendous technological advance. After about 1910 the technology of the straight razor hit a natural plateau, and so to me, razors 100yo or less are technically superior. YMMV.

You can get a rough idea of what others think a razor is worth, by researching on ebay. Search for the item, using ebay advanced search. Specify completed auctions only. Presto. Now you can see what others paid for similar razors. But any deal where both buyer and seller walked away satisfied, is a good deal.

Yep... No convincing him otherwise. I really appreciate your response. I'm not sure what this razor is. Is it from 1900 or 1950? Is there a guide somewhere that shows Henckel's and their years of production? I guess I'm just the new guy; full of questions.

I noticed no comments on the stropping method. Isn't it best to "roll the spine"? I've watched many, many videos of "how to strop" and they show the razor being flipped over instead of rolled. Thoughts?

Also, when honing do I go diagonally, straight, or both?

The spine should remain on the strop during the turn. The edge flips up and over the spine and settles back down onto the strop while the spine stays on the strop. This helps to ensure that the edge does not bite into the leather.

If by diagonally you mean an X stroke, yes that is correct. The razor is pulled sideways across the strop as it travels along it. Only a half inch or so of sideways travel is needed if the strop is wide enough to carry the entire blade and there is no cupping. More, otherwise.

doc47 said:

As a beginner I'd look for a round point rather than a square point razor to begin with as they are more forgiving. Feel free to take a look at my razors, they are posted in my profile.

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I, too, prefer the experience of round points, but I do not keep any facial hair. If you want to trim a beard of mustache, a square point (like the one of the henckel you got) would work best.

I prefer a square point. I will only use my Henckel's to get my chin strap clean cut and straight. Thankfully I won't be using it to shave my neck or my chin.

I'm just waiting for the hone and strop to come back from my fathers barbershop and then the training is on.

Nicklaus said:

I'm not sure what this razor is. Is it from 1900 or 1950? Is there a guide somewhere that shows Henckel's and their years of production?

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A loose guide to dating a Henckels is the 'Twins' stamp...

Wow, this was exactly what o was looking for. Thanks so much. I would love to own one from 1875. 1731? Do any of those still exist?

Nicklaus said:

Wow, this was exactly what o was looking for. Thanks so much. I would love to own one from 1875. 1731? Do any of those still exist?

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Sure. But they are not hollowground. They will be wedges. Some guys love them. Some don't. I don't. YMMV.

Okay, so I've got 2 Henckel's now and I must say I love them both. One is a bit larger than the other and I'm not sure which one will "grow" on me first.

I've been watching doc's honing videos. I have a hone and a strop. I tried honing both razors and stropping them. Still, they didn't pass the dropped hair or falling hair test or whatever it's called. Why? What am I doing wrong? This makes me think there is probably 1 or 2 basic things that I could be doing better. Is it mostly the stroke on the home and strop? Is it the stone itself? Is it the razor? Any help would be much appreciated. If you've gone through this please tell me some basic mistakes that beginners make. Also can you "over hone" a blade? Can I keep trying until I get it right or do i risk damaging the blade?

Let me add. Please.
I need help on choosing a new hone and a new strop. I don't want 8 different hones. Though I am really interested in getting the sharpest edge possible.

I just rehoned and stropped my smaller Henckel's and the upper portion of the edge did pass the falling hair test. I was as giddy as a school girl when it happened. I plan to buy a microscope as well.

Any thoughts on which of these products to buy would be helpful. I don't see much on here about what the best beginners hone is. I wouldn't mind a 4 step grit process or something like that. I'm confident and careful in my stroke. Is there a difference between a hone and a wet stone. Pardon my newbyness.

If you are starting with shave ready razors, you only need touchups or scheduled regular edge maintenance such as described in my balsa thread here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/473580-How-To-Use-a-Pasted-Balsa-Strop . If you pick up ebay rescues or flea market or yard sale finds and need to bring them back from the dead, then you need either a full progression of synthetic stones, or Lapping Film.

You should NOT have to re-hone a shave ready razor until you have at least 20 or so shaves on it. With experience you can stretch that out a lot more. Using my pasted balsa routine you should never have to re-hone, period.

Anyway, so you can hone on a progression of synthetic stones. A good progression would be a Naniwa Chosera 1k for bevel setting, maybe a 400 or 600 grit stone of whatever make for heavy edge repair work, a 3k grit Naniwa Superstone, 8k, and 12k Naniwa Superstone. The 12k is your finisher and for a touchup that is all you will need. There are other options but this is a good balance of cost vs effectiveness vs ease of use vs consistency. My personal recommendation on Nortons is run very very far and fast away from them, but some guys like them. Some guys like the King 1k/6k combo stone but I don't, at least not muchly. And it still leaves you needing a finisher in the 10k/12k range.

For a film progression I recommend 600 grit wet dry sandpaper for repair, or coarser if needed, then either 1k/2k grit paper for bevel setting or else 15u lapping film. Then 9u, 3u, and 1u film. There is a special technique required for .3u film so best to just stop at 1u which is about equivelant to the Naniwa 12k more or less, anyway.

Then there are naturals. Naturals as a rule require considerable skill to get the best from the stone, and I suggest leaving them until you have a handle on what makes an edge in the first place. It is not quite as simple as you might think, from sharpening knives and tools. But for just touchups, you could go with a C12k which is a slow finisher from China, or a Coticule under running water or very well cleaned, with lather applied to the stone. Like synthetics, naturals must be lapped when you get them, and periodically thereafter. A Translucent or a Black Arkansas stone, once lapped and conditioned, won't need lapping for a very long time, but this is an excruciatingly slow stone.

Cheapest way to go is lapping film. For touchups only, just get 1u film and a heavy piece of glass for a plate. Next cheapest is regular post-shave stropping on pasted balsa. The balsa must be lapped and you must follow directions, particularly avoiding applying too much paste, since the proper amount will seem like about 1/3 what you need. See the thread. It's all there.

A reasonable quality hanging leather strop is pretty much a necessity. Sure it is okay to use a sub par strop for learning, since you are likely to destroy it while developing your skill, but you really need a proper strop made from decent smooth veg tanned leather secured to a top D ring with three Chicago screws so you can remedy any tendency to cupping. A linen component is not absolutely necessary. I don't use one at all. I prefer a strop with D ring top and bottom, no fabric component just the leather, so I can hang it either way up. This spreads the wear to both edges. When learning, if you have nicked up one edge, swapping ends presents the other undamaged edge to your razor. A good width is 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" but I prefer a 3" strop personally. Watch the videos and develop a good x stroke, even if you have a wide strop.

There is no such thing as a "wet stone". The proper term would be "whet stone", and "whet" means to put a sharp edge on a tool. All honing media is used with some sort of lubricant, be it water, lather, or oil. Except maybe diamond plates which are commonly used dry but can be used wet.

The rocks you use to sharpen your knives are not going to cut it, btw. Razor honing is a whole nother level. Where knife sharpening normally stops, at 600 or 1k grit, is where razor honing begins. You won't find these rocks at the hardware store.

Wow, very good response! What is film?

Also, I'm buying from eBay. So give me your 1 2 3 on what hones to buy. I know you sort of already did. So I need a Naniwa superstone? 12k? Should I get an 8k too? If you were buying from eBay and not buying damaged blades are those the two you would buy?

I don't wanna go cheap. My goal is to purchase what works best and is relatively easy first and maybe purchase a natural stone and hone my honing craft

Where do I purchase the best strop? Like the one you mentioned.

The hone I have is about 8 inches by 4 inches. My dad is a barber and has used it for years. I'm sorry to say that when I challenged him to get the new Henkel's to pass the falling hair test he scoffed at the notion. He basically said he only needed to get his razor sharp enough to shave necks... This was unfortunate as I was looking to him as a master of this... Don't get me wrong, he knows his stuff... But I realize now I want to take it to a whole other level. Your guidance is very much valued and appreciated.

Nicklaus said:

Wow, very good response! What is film?

Also, I'm buying from eBay. So give me your 1 2 3 on what hones to buy. I know you sort of already did. So I need a Naniwa superstone? 12k? Should I get an 8k too? If you were buying from eBay and not buying damaged blades are those the two you would buy?

I don't wanna go cheap. My goal is to purchase what works best and is relatively easy first and maybe purchase a natural stone and hone my honing craft

Where do I purchase the best strop? Like the one you mentioned.

The hone I have is about 8 inches by 4 inches. My dad is a barber and has used it for years. I'm sorry to say that when I challenged him to get the new Henkel's to pass the falling hair test he scoffed at the notion. He basically said he only needed to get his razor sharp enough to shave necks... This was unfortunate as I was looking to him as a master of this... Don't get me wrong, he knows his stuff... But I realize now I want to take it to a whole other level. Your guidance is very much valued and appreciated.

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Lapping Film.

Ebay is not necessarily the place to buy a set of Naniwas. Google is your friend. I think Maggard's might have about the best prices, but you shop and compare. For touchups only, you do not need anything but the finisher. If you buy only shave-ready razors, a touchup now and then is all you need, and so no need for the 8k. The 8k and coarser stones are only needed when you are not working with a razor that has recently been in shave ready condition. I solemnly and earnestly urge you to NOT mess about with razors that are not shave ready, and made so by trusted honers. The idea is you learn to shave first, and THEN learn to hone, and meanwhile get as much mileage as you can from good, professional or better quality edges before you mess them up trying to improve them.

Most razors sold on ebay, even most razors that are claimed to be shave-ready, are not. Lately it has become the new buzz word on fleabay. There are a few trusted vendors, yes. Most sellers on ebay do not even shave with a straight, so how can such a person possibly in his (or her!) wildest fantasies imagine that he (or she!) has a clue about what is and is not a shave ready edge? My suggestion is if you are going to roll the dice with your money on ebay, at least stick with vendors who are mentioned favorably in threads on this forum. Another thing to do is look for the seller's other items, and feedback rating. If a seller always has a few dozen razors listed, and has good feedback, then the chances are fairly good that if he says his blades are shave-ready, then they are. Otherwise, probably not. There are vendors that are members here, who will give you a proper shave ready edge on a razor they sell. Larry at www.whippeddog.com is a good source for knockabout newbie quality user grade vintage razors. The price is certainly nice. For new, consider Jarrod at TheSuperiorShave.com. Look in the BST as well. There are one or two sellers of shave ready Gold Dollars, from totally stock to heavily modified, for good prices, as well as the occasional razor sold by a member thinning his rotation or making room for more stuff in his den. When you finally dull them, THEN think about honing.

As for strops, I have one of THESE, and it is a rather nice strop that won't break the bank. It appears they are currently out of stock. But it will give you an idea of what to look for. It is assembled with Chicago screws, 3 of them, as it should be, for any strop much over 2" wide. The length is good. I also have two Big Daddy strops from a vendor who is no longer in business, constructed in similar fashion. Here is another strop similar to the American Mountain strop, apparently of slightly lesser quality but maybe not, maybe just not as much detailed handiwork. Looks good. Member Tony Miller makes some nice strops, by all accounts. http://www.classicshaving.com/hardware/razor-strops-hones.html seems to have the 3" American Mountain strop in stock, but a little pricier. Maggard's has some strops, from about the same quality/price, up to a nice $300 shell cordovan beauty.

Pics of the rock you already have would be helpful and of interest.

I'll send a pic of the rock I have soon. It's pretty basic I think.

I did get my Henkel's to pass the falling hair test after using it and watching one of "doc's" videos. I used a circular motion, followed by a typical X on both sides of the stone, and then fabric stropped and finally leather stropped.

I appreciate what you're saying about being able to feel the edge. I should add I've been shaving with a safety straight razor for about a year without issue.

I am determined to learn how to get a fine edge on a Henckel's. I will even destroy 1 or 2 in the process if that's what it takes to learn. I certainly won't try to, but I am that adamant about learning.

I'm not completely new to anything but the honing process.
So, I'm starting with your advice. I'm not buying cheap razors and trying to fix them. I'm buying close to shave ready razors and putting the finishing touches on them (or at least trying to at present). I will find the Naniwa you mentioned and the strop and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again. I really do appreciate your knowledge and feedback.

Nicklaus said:

I am determined to learn how to get a fine edge on a Henckel's. I will even destroy 1 or 2 in the process if that's what it takes to learn. I certainly won't try to, but I am that adamant about learning.

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Please, please, please by the grace of the gods don't destroy a nice razor in learning to hone!!! Breeze through eBay and pick up a couple of $5 Gold Dollars for learning on... Please!!! With all it's faults and foibles if you can put a great edge on a GD then your nice razors will be a snap, and you won't have destroyed them in the process! =)

jlindy said:

Please, please, please by the grace of the gods don't destroy a nice razor in learning to hone!!! Breeze through eBay and pick up a couple of $5 Gold Dollars for learning on... Please!!! With all it's faults and foibles if you can put a great edge on a GD then your nice razors will be a snap, and you won't have destroyed them in the process! =)

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Pretty hard to destroy a razor by honing it. Personally I don't find stock GDs all that easy to hone, and I would prefer a beat up old vintage to learn on. Or better yet, a whipped dog. Shave with it till it's dull, then have at it. The price is nice, though not as cheap as a GD still in the box. But you are right about one thing... if you can get a stock GD to shave well, with its big fat spine and wonky grind, the average razor will be a breeze.

I don't honestly think I will destroy any. I was just trying to express how determined I am to learn.

Thanks though. Maybe I'll do that.