Are JNats like jumping in the deep end?

So, I've been honing, with varied results, using lapping films and a marble slab. I've been frustrated with the edges I get - sometimes good and sometimes not so great. I'm still very much in the learning stages...

I was watching a bit of a cooking show online a couple of weeks ago - this thing where Anthony Bourdain goes to different cities - and it was set in my hometown of Toronto. He went to this fancy Japanese knife shop where they had all sorts of blades and stones.

I decided to call them up and ask if they sold stones that were appropriate for straight razors, and the guy seemed to really know his stuff. I got excited by the idea of being able to go into a brick and mortar shop and look at stones and ask someone questions as opposed to shopping online.

But, does a JNAT (or two) make sense for a newbie like me - or is it like jumping in the deep end with no lessons? I mean, I haven't even really been able to discern what making a slurry is all about - most vids on youtube seem to take it for granted that you know how that works if you're watching. Is it too advanced a "system" for someone whose only done a little bit of honing on film, or is it just more or less what has to happen if I'm going to get serious about honing?

I know these questions are relative to individuals skills and ability to learn and all that. I'm not asking for a definitive answer, just an opinions or advice people may have.

Cheers!

Imo i wouldnt get anything else.until you nail what you have. Japanese stones are not that difficult to use.

Who did you talk to? Was it the guys at toshoknifearts? If so, they know their stuff but are more into knives than razors and as such their knowledge of razor hones is limited as compared to their use with razors. I know them all pretty well. Send me a PM if you'd like to chat or bounce any questions off of me. I'll also be in the GTA for a few weeks at the end of August.

Big difference between knives and razors, yes they both can be made very sharp but very different edges, I started with all synthetic stones and stayed with them several months before venturing out to natural stones, my first step was coticules which was not that great for me but I found out later by the coticule guys that I started with the wrong stones for a beginner and the whole adding a drop of water here and there just really frustrated me but like I said the stones I had purchased were not for beginners so I sold them and went with a simple JNAT from Alex after trying a JNAT edge from [MENTION=44174]Doc226[/MENTION] and I was hooked and have never looked back, I currently have 3 JNATS and all impart different edges, there are guys here that have forgotten more about JNATS than I will ever know but the stones I got from Alex do the job fairly easy and my long distance mentor on JNATS [MENTION=44174]Doc226[/MENTION] has made the ride easy but for now my suggestion to you is to stay with a synthetic progression as it's a known progression where you are not dealing with slurries and stones of unknown grits and once you get that down then get someone to give you a good coticule edge to try like Jarrod from TSS and also get a solid killer JNAT edge from someone and decide what you want to pursue, heck you might figure out that you like synthetics and there is nothing wrong with that but with any system you have to put the time in to learn it and as my teacher keeps telling me over and over "Hone, Shave, Repeat"

Like someone already said. Get consistent results with your current setup, then think about getting better results. If you can't get consistent results, then you may well be wasting money looking for better ones.

While it is true that a new stone won't improve your honing technique or cure bad technique, a new hone can be fun and motivate you so why not go for it? You can continue improving your techique with a Jnat just as you can any other hone. A Jnat is actually pretty easy to use and can be very versatile - many can take a razor from bevel set to finish in a short time. Beyond the utilitarian gear, it's all about having some fun, so go have some, but be sure you get a razor hone.

Cheers, Steve

I would say for a beginner any method will be difficult while learning the basics. Doing a full Nagura progression on a Jnat will be adding complexity, but if you thrive on "figuring things out" it would be fun. If you get irritated when things don't go as hoped it may not be fun at all.

Kentos said:

I would say for a beginner any method will be difficult while learning the basics. Doing a full Nagura progression on a Jnat will be adding complexity, but if you thrive on "figuring things out" it would be fun. If you get irritated when things don't go as hoped it may not be fun at all.

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Like shaving with a straight?

Thank you all for your replies. I will weigh them all....

I recently dropped the nagura thing and have been using a DMT #600 card and have been quited pleased with the results, I have also used a DMT #600 slurry then used a tomo as the very last and finish on just a hint of tomo slurry and get very good results as well so for me with a razor that has no issues i set the bevel with a 4K Shapton then use one of several JNATS to finish on and it's very easy, is it perfect everytime ? no but I have fun and it very relazing to hone.

Steve56 said:

While it is true that a new stone won't improve your honing technique or cure bad technique, a new hone can be fun and motivate you so why not go for it? You can continue improving your techique with a Jnat just as you can any other hone. A Jnat is actually pretty easy to use and can be very versatile - many can take a razor from bevel set to finish in a short time. Beyond the utilitarian gear, it's all about having some fun, so go have some, but be sure you get a razor hone.

Cheers, Steve

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THIS! Not only can it be fun but honing on a visually appealing piece of rock is definitely more pleasurable than honing on a synthetic brick.

If you have the funds you can get one stone and use it with nagura after your current set up to see if it delivers the edge you want (i bet it will).

Strop Dragging My Heart said:

But, does a JNAT (or two) make sense for a newbie like me - or is it like jumping in the deep end with no lessons?

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If the newbie in question (you or anyone else for that matter) is honestly interested in honing on Jnats, then yes - it makes as much sense as getting into any other system out there. All stones have to be learned ; as far as I know, no one was born with honing skills. Everything has to be found out, and practiced. Same with synths, or any other natural progression. Depending on the person, some systems are easier to learn than another. But you won't know which ones are more to your liking without trying them.
While some authoritarians make claims about this/that system being easiest or best for beginners or whatever, there simply are no absolutes here. I say - if it feels good, go for it.

Gamma said:

If the newbie in question (you or anyone else for that matter) is honestly interested in honing on Jnats, then yes - it makes as much sense as getting into any other system out there. All stones have to be learned ; as far as I know, no one was born with honing skills. Everything has to be found out, and practiced. Same with synths, or any other natural progression. Depending on the person, some systems are easier to learn than another. But you won't know which ones are more to your liking without trying them.
While some authoritarians make claims about this/that system being easiest or best for beginners or whatever, there simply are no absolutes here. I say - if it feels good, go for it.

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Very well said Keith, I originally used a synthetic progression out to 16K but did not care for the edge so then I tried a few coticules and no for me either then tested a few JNATS after sampling a fine JNAT edge from [MENTION=44174]Doc226[/MENTION] and was very happy with the edge but as Keith stated you have to put in the time.