Clubman Pinaud Endangered?

Tried it yesterday, liked it, and was curious about the ingredient oakmoss. Oakmoss turns out to be from the moss evernia prunasti, with the fragrance extracted in France. The Clubman Pinaud label notes the fragrance comes from France.

Trying to find out more about clubmoss turned up that it is to be banned in Europe. The problem is two compounds that cause an allergic reaction in 1% - 3% of European population. Perfume companies are trying work-arounds, including versions of oakmoss without the offending compounds.

Since Clubman Pinaud used oakmoss and the fragrance comes from France, this will likely affect the aftershave. For our lady friends, it will affect Channel No. 5 and Miss Dior.

If there is enough of a demand, it can be reformulated, either with a substitute or without the two compounds. Whether that will affect the fragrance is another question.

For more information on the restriction on oakmoss, see the Independent UK story at http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...kill-the-french-perfume-industry-9868986.html

Interesting information. I can't control this, so I don't think about it. Que sera sera.

I read the article and sounds like the proposed changes are no longer an outright ban but rather a lower concentration.

Although not yet finalised, the EC describes the proposals as a sensible compromise that rejects an outright ban on fragrances and instead considers recommendations to severely curtail the concentrations of eight essential perfume ingredients that may contain potential allergens. The labelling is also to be reviewed.

And at the very end of that article...

Some perfumers have already begun to adapt their scents. Guerlain's Mitsouko, for instance, has been reformulated, still using oakmoss, but grown without the molecule that causes allergic reactions in some people

So the way I read it, worst case they have to use a different variety of oakmoss.

Maybe I'm wrong, but having only recently discovered Clubman, I refuse to believe this!

Common sense would be for people to read the label, and if an ingredient affects them, they should avoid it.

Hmmm.... weird. I love oakmoss. But I personally do not detect any oakmoss in Clubman.

I had run across that, but the article was written a year ago. I don't think it's happening anymore.

Even if something as draconian as this were to go into effect, which I doubt, it's on perfumes made in Europe.
The scent may well be from France, but the aftershave isn't made there.
I don't see anything in the article, which is pretty old, and discusses issues raised three years ago, that says that raw materials can't be exported for use by others.

The issue are two compounds in oakmoss. Whether removing or lowering those compounds change the fragrance of oakmoss is something a perfumer would have to answer.

Since oakmoss is found in North America, the US doesn't have to be dependent on on European supplies. Then again, that also would mean that smell-goods made from US oakmoss fragrance with the offending atranol and chloroatranol couldn't be offered for sale in Europe.

This also requires establishing a new supply chain. Doable, but the likelihood is dependent on demand. So while Clubman isn't made in France, European regulations on an ingredient made in France is going to have an impact. A little more digging shows it's enough of an impact that the big name perfumers are looking for alternatives.

More digging shows that some perfumers have already shifted to low atranol oakmoss. Some are looking at algae and seaweed.

For the IFRA International rule on Oakmoss, see:

http://www.ifraorg.org/en-us/standards-library/s/oakmoss

Note that it's restricted, with atranol and chloroatranol less than 100 ppm.

Having discovered that Clubman, like other aftershaves, was reformulated for plastic bottles, I'm not that concerned: I doubt the smell I like is exactly like the original.

As someone said in regards to the untrue rumor about Arko being discontinued, even if were to cease manufacturing, there is such a stockpile of it out in the wild, that it would take years to truly disappear.

Crap of a knee jerk reaction if it should ever occur. 1-3% of the population are allergic? Then they shouldn't use the product. According to foodallergy.org, this is the same allergy rate for shellfish. Should there now be a proposal to shut down the shellfish industry? Heck no.

the_edski said:

As someone said in regards to the untrue rumor about Arko being discontinued, even if were to cease manufacturing, there is such a stockpile of it out in the wild, that it would take years to truly disappear.

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If Clubman is profitable, it will be reformulated. I want to recheck the label, because it may already be reformulated. Note the IFRA link states that oakmoss extracts used in fragrances must not contain added tree moss. This could mean the extract itself and not the fragrance. That said, I think Clubman once had tree moss in addition to oakmoss, but I don't recall seeing it on list of ingredients.

FonGu said:

Crap of a knee jerk reaction if it should ever occur. 1-3% of the population are allergic? Then they shouldn't use the product. According to foodallergy.org, this is the same allergy rate for shellfish. Should there now be a proposal to shut down the shellfish industry? Heck no.

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I really don't want to go there, since A. It's politics, and B. I don't live in the EU. That said, as someone who can't tolerate some fragrances, I don't see what's wrong with simply listing the ingredients. But I really don't want to bring politics into this.

Could that be why Clubman listed the presence of oakmoss when the old labels simply noted "fragrance?"

There are other fragrances that use oakmoss. Aqua Velva is supposed to have a moss "base note" (whatever that means), but don't know what kind of moss that means.

FonGu said:

Crap of a knee jerk reaction if it should ever occur. 1-3% of the population are allergic? Then they shouldn't use the product. According to foodallergy.org, this is the same allergy rate for shellfish. Should there now be a proposal to shut down the shellfish industry? Heck no.

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Your eating shellfish does not affect the person sitting near you who is allergic to shellfish.
Your wearing of an oakmoss fragrance could involuntarily affect the person sitting near you who is allergic to oakmoss.
The two are not comparable.

It was supposed to happen in the early part of this year. I think if it actually did happen in a draconian way we'd have heard an awful lot more about it by now. This story has been floating around for a while. My bottle of Clubman lists both Oakmoss and Treemoss and was bought sometime around July. Of course it takes time for changes to work their way through the supply chain, but perfume is big money in Europe so it won't go down without a fight. That being said there are workarounds for a lot of things and it sounds like perfumers have found ways to grow Oakmoss without the offending molecules so it may not be an issue at all.

Haggises said:

Your eating shellfish does not affect the person sitting near you who is allergic to shellfish.
Your wearing of an oakmoss fragrance could involuntarily affect the person sitting near you who is allergic to oakmoss.
The two are not comparable.

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You are assuming that the allergy is olfactory in nature and not topical. Additionally, considering the population and size of the EU and assuming the maximum listed rate of allergy, we are talking about 10 people per square mile who might be sensitive to oakmoss. Not exactly startling numbers.

ZergoZatgai said:

It was supposed to happen in the early part of this year. I think if it actually did happen in a draconian way we'd have heard an awful lot more about it by now. This story has been floating around for a while. My bottle of Clubman lists both Oakmoss and Treemoss and was bought sometime around July. Of course it takes time for changes to work their way through the supply chain, but perfume is big money in Europe so it won't go down without a fight. That being said there are workarounds for a lot of things and it sounds like perfumers have found ways to grow Oakmoss without the offending molecules so it may not be an issue at all.

Click to expand...

Turns out my bottle of Clubman also has tree moss.

The link to IFRA is to the EU restriction. That's what's in place now. Whether or not we'd hear much about it would depend on whether or not perfumers could continue to offer tweaked or reformulated products. I don't think they'd be experimenting with sea weed and algae for oakmoss replacement if it wasn't as billed.

I joined an athletic club about 30 years ago. They had Clubman aftershave in the men's locker. The scent has been one of my favorites since. Whatever issues they're having with this oak moss, I hope they figure it out because it would be a sad day if that scent goes extinct.