Too much tugging?

Hey everyone,

I had a slow transition into DE shaving. I was lurking around the forums and watched a lot of shaving videos on youtube. I first started my transition by using a shaving soap with shaving brush with my cartridge razor instead of the canned goo. Once I got down how to lather, I started by learning to map my hair growth and do a 3 pass shave (WTG, XTG, ATG), which gave me pretty good results.

Just recently, I picked up a DE razor (Muehle R89 with Ikon Bamboo Handle) and started DE shaving. So far I had 3 shaves. With the first one, I used a Derby blade, because a lot of people recommended it for beginners. Well, I did get the right shaving angle pretty quickly, but the Derby blade was pulling and tugging like mad on my face, especially in the ATG pass. Because of the tugging, my razor seemed to have ripped out some hairs, leading to quite a lot of nicks.
I have a lighter growth of hair, but on some spots my beard is very coarse and thick, especially on my upper lip, on my chin and along the lower jaw bone. With cartridge razors, I had the problem of tugging as well, but I expected it to be better with DE shaving because of the sharper blades.
On my second shave, I decided to toss the blade and switch to an Astra SP, as I heard it was a lot sharper than the Derby, but not as sharp as a Feather. With the astra, it went a lot better. The Derby was tugging even on my lighter hairs and I was quite surprised that the Astra SP still was tugging and pulling a lot in the ATG pass, but only in the regions of coarser hair, still leading to quite a lot of nicks (was better than the Derby still).
On my third shave I had today, I decided to try out the Feather blade, as I thought it would be sharp enough not to tug or pull. The areas of lighter hair went absolutely flawless, the blade was really gliding on my face, I almost couldn't feel it. This led to a quite comfortable and close shave in these regions. But in the coarser hair regions, the blade was still tugging quite a lot, not as much as the Derby and Astra SP did, but it was still there. On my upper lip, in the touch up pass I got quite angry because I seemed not being able to shave the hairs off, so I did go over the same spot like 5 times when finally the hairs got cut off, but this led to a cut... I know it's my fault but oh well, at least it's just one cut instead of several nicks with the other blades...
What's really bugging me is that even with 4 passes (touch-up included) I couldn't a get a really close shave in the coarser hair areas, like on my upper lip I can still feel the hairs when going over my skin against the grain with my fingers.
Now my question is: do I need a more aggressive razor for my skin or should I keep on trying different blades? I still have some Personna Med Preps to try. Just to make clear, I don't think it's the fault of a bad preparation, I do spend a lot of time in the preparation and the lather is really good. Some advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Blizzard

Well, time and practice should help quite a bit with your issue, not many can switch and get instant sucess. DE razors and shaving are harder to master than a cart. Don't give up or get discouraged, it will improve with time and practice, we all have to go through a bit of learning to arrive at closer, more comfortable shaves!

Also, look to your hydration again and see if you can improve on it somewhere, every little bit helps, and as everyone says, watch the angles and pressure. For me those three things combined took a little while to work out. Look to the sharpest blade, the Feather, it will tell you where your issue is in just a shave or two. It is the blade I learned to shave with and it is still the one blade that I will always use first.
If your prep is right, your angle is right, and your pressure is right then the Feather will give a great shave. If not then you will know quickly.

Keep at it, and give yourself time to adjust, it will get better. If it were easy carts would have never caught on like they did.

dionesius3 said:

Also, look to your hydration again and see if you can improve on it somewhere, every little bit helps, and as everyone says, watch the angles and pressure.

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This.

Beard properly hydrated is very important, as is a slick lather, proper blade angle and no pressure.

Use more product, use more water, try different blade angles (usually shallow is better - this means the handle almost perpendicular to your face), and lock your wrist using your shoulder and elbow to move the razor. This will help keeping the right angle and avoid pressure.

Good luck, and welcome to B&B!

Some folks can't go ATG, and that's fine. I never go ATG on mt sensitive areas (moustache, chin, some parts of my neck). I do multiple XTG passes (different directions) and get a very good shave.

Just be patient, use the tips above and on the videos you watched and apply common sense. Shaving is not as diffiicult as it may seem. Billions of men have been doing this for centurues and they are no smarter than you.

From my experience, 3 shaves is not enough to establish the proper angle. Sounds like the tugging is from using too steep of an angle. Try shallowing the angle a bit, and see if that helps. Having slick shaving cream also helps a ton.
Hope you solve the tugging issue one way or another!

What are you using to wash/exfoliate your face? I get my best shaved using and exfoliating based wash.
I can understand Derby's tugging, but Feathers should slice right through those hairs. Also try some pre shave
oil 10-15 minutes before your shower. That should help hydrate the facial hair....

I discovered "diagonal to the grain" today and it gave me a close shave without much tugging. After my first pass WTG, I went diagonal, which was between XTG and ATG. I'm new at this also, so YMMV

matt267 said:

I discovered "diagonal to the grain" today and it gave me a close shave without much tugging. After my first pass WTG, I went diagonal, which was between XTG and ATG. I'm new at this also, so YMMV

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+1

Welcome to B&B Blizzard! I reccomend a few months of razor time getting to know your stubble. You'll learn by feel which angles you can and can't shave at, and get a feel for pressure. Try and keep it enjoyable and don't worry about "BBS".

Welcome to B&B. You're getting some good advice so far, I would suggest sticking with one blade, razor, soap etc...and concentrate on you technique for 3 or 4 weeks.

Good luck and enjoy your journey.

Good advice above and welcome. One word of advice: don't obsess about a BBS shave on every area.

There's a lot of learning opportunity just going WTG, it's not just the increased risk ATG that makes everyone say don't do it. Try to keep the flesh soft ahead of your blade, and pull it taut with your fingertips behind. Like your lip is the water, and the hairs are the fish, and your fingers are setting the hook.

Welcome to B&B!
+1 to the recommendations for shallower angle a more thorough prep. Maybe try to shave after a shower, if you don't already.
You could also give Kyle's prep a shot. It works for a lot of folks.

Also, until you get more familiar with the razor and your technique develops, I'd suggest skipping the ATG pass.
Your goal for now should be imho to get comfortable shaves, rather than a close ones. What worked for me (after I forsake ATG) was 2x WTG and 1 XTG. Some gentlemen get good results even with 2x WTG passes.
You could revisit ATG after you get 100 or so shaves.

(this line is all wrong, sorry) -1 on shallow angle. Steep angle is certainly not the cause of tugging.
Remember with a DE you have to angle the razor so it follows the contours of your face.

lloydrm said:

-1 on shallow angle. Steep angle is certainly not the cause of tugging.
Remember with a DE you have to angle the razor so it follows the contours of your face.

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What causes tugging in your opinion?

Also, are you saying that a steep angle works better with a razor with limited blade exposure, like the R89?

Wow! I am quite overwhelmed about the amount of answers. I didn't expect so many people giving me advice on my problem! Thanks to everyone welcoming me here at B&B

BSAGuy said:

Just be patient, use the tips above and on the videos you watched and apply common sense. Shaving is not as diffiicult as it may seem. Billions of men have been doing this for centurues and they are no smarter than you.

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Thanks! That's very motivating

Syx005 said:

From my experience, 3 shaves is not enough to establish the proper angle. Sounds like the tugging is from using too steep of an angle. Try shallowing the angle a bit, and see if that helps. Having slick shaving cream also helps a ton.
Hope you solve the tugging issue one way or another!

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Well, I think the slick shaving cream is not really a problem, I really get good lather.

williabe said:

What are you using to wash/exfoliate your face? I get my best shaved using and exfoliating based wash.
I can understand Derby's tugging, but Feathers should slice right through those hairs. Also try some pre shave
oil 10-15 minutes before your shower. That should help hydrate the facial hair....

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Um, so far I'm not using anything to exfoliate. What I'm doing is I'm usually shaving before showering, I rinse my face thoroughly with warm water, then I apply MRGLO ATG into my beard, wash it off and then proceed to lathering up. I usually lather up for a pretty long time, I thought the exfoliation would be already good enough because of the shaving brush? Or do you think I would profit from using some kind of facial scrub and or shaving after showering?

matt267 said:

I discovered "diagonal to the grain" today and it gave me a close shave without much tugging. After my first pass WTG, I went diagonal, which was between XTG and ATG. I'm new at this also, so YMMV

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Thanks for the tip! I will definitely try this one out

stovepipe699 said:

Welcome to B&B Blizzard! I reccomend a few months of razor time getting to know your stubble. You'll learn by feel which angles you can and can't shave at, and get a feel for pressure. Try and keep it enjoyable and don't worry about "BBS".

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I guess I may be just a bit impatient I will definitely keep on practicing. Also thanks for the comments on not trying to achieve a BBS in the beginning, I think I may have had too high expectations for the beginning. Everything takes some practice to get perfect, right?

nuclearblast said:

What causes tugging in your opinion?

Also, are you saying that a steep angle works better with a razor with limited blade exposure, like the R89?

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IME tugging causes: poor razor grip, unsteady stroke (not to be confused with pressure), a nicked blade, dry/unpreped whiskers, lack of lather and too shallow angle (most of the times more than one factor involved).
I do not have experience with a R89 but I do with a Merkur 33c and a Tech and with those a steep (Edit: shallow) angle causes pulling so no, it does not work.
From your question I get that you think otherwise, right?

lloydrm said:

From your question I get that you think otherwise, right?

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Not necessarily, I actually agree with almost everything you said. Except I still think most of the time, if the angle is the issue is because it's too steep and not too shallow.

That being said, the other factors you mentioned are all very important as well, especially a properly hydrated beard and a nice slick lather.

nuclearblast said:

Not necessarily, I actually agree with almost everything you said. Except I still think most of the time, if the angle is the issue is because it's too steep and not too shallow.

That being said, the other factors you mentioned are all very important as well, especially a properly hydrated beard and a nice slick lather.

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Interesting. I talk mostly from my own experience but you have quite a lot of experience in guiding people into wet shaving. OP: you should follow Edgar's advise and steepen your angle!