Being well into my 40's, I'm thinking it's time to start thinking about the "grown up stuff". Curious about thoughts surrounding long term care insurance. I'd like to look into policies with in home care options but I've got no clue where to start and I HATE salesmen (sorry if I offend you...but I HATE salesmen). Any experiences or thoughts to share?
Long Term Care Insurance
- Thread starter Soapy Smith
- Start date
Well, I am one of those "Salesmen" you kindly mentioned. I own and operate an Independent Multi-Line Insurance brokerage and have done so for 25 yrs. If anyone your are talking to is trying to sell you rather than educate run away fast. Long Term Care can be a real mess, however the 40's is not a bad time to start looking, however the average purchaser is in their mid to late 50's to early 60's when they purchase.
Arguments can be made to buy earlier based on a cheaper price, however there is only a 1-5% chance you will use it before age 70 and the benefits are the same either way as most LTC carriers have removed the Lifetime benefit package (2010) and most have between a 2,000,000 and 5,000,000 life time benefit. So do you give your money to the insurance carrier now and let them reap the returns, or escrow what you would have paid now and wait until you are more likely to use it, and thus investing the money now and keeping it in your pocket.
Unless of course you have some health issues that would cause you to want to get in earlier. I would wait, do some research, talk to and educator, not a salesman, and make sure you discuss this with an agent that has his LUTCF designation with an emphasis on Long Term Care. As these graduate studies are intense and agents who pass these are truly experts in the field of Long term Care.
As you are looking make sure you have a policy that includes at least a 2,000,000 life time benefit and included the following
In home care
In home payment of dr's, nurses, caregivers, etc
full "in facilty" care if you have to go to a facility whether temp or permanent
Full drug benefits
caregiver respite coverage ( this allows a family member who may be a caregiver to take some time off and hire staff for you )
coverage for medical devices that may be needed
Hospice care at the point of no return
The average cost is about 45,000 a year for "in facility" care and just a bit less for in home. My mother is in a facility due to her Alzheimer's, and I had her at home for 6-yrs before the decision had to made ( for safety ) to place her in care. If it was not for LTC coverage both her and me would be bankrupt and the general coverage with Medicare part A, B and supplemental ran out rather quickly.
If nothing else this is a start, and gives you some things to think about. See we are all not "Salesmen" some of us just want to ensure you and your families are taken care of.
Good Luck in your search and I would recommend seeking out an independent agent or broker, as they will have the most comprehensive training, and largest availability of carriers for you to choose from. they really do work for you and your interests and not the carriers. You may pay a bit more in commissions, but you will know the interest is in you and not the carrier.
Right now get your Life insurance in order (if not done yet) -Term not Universal or Whole Life and then once you breach the mid 50's or early 60's start seriously looking at LTC coverage.
Now these are my opinions as a professional, but you will get a ton of varying opinions on this. but that will separate the "educators" from the Salesmen.
Good Luck in your endeavors and searches.
(and NO, I am not soliciting for yours or anyone else's business. Not my style)
Arguments can be made to buy earlier based on a cheaper price, however there is only a 1-5% chance you will use it before age 70 and the benefits are the same either way as most LTC carriers have removed the Lifetime benefit package (2010) and most have between a 2,000,000 and 5,000,000 life time benefit. So do you give your money to the insurance carrier now and let them reap the returns, or escrow what you would have paid now and wait until you are more likely to use it, and thus investing the money now and keeping it in your pocket.
Unless of course you have some health issues that would cause you to want to get in earlier. I would wait, do some research, talk to and educator, not a salesman, and make sure you discuss this with an agent that has his LUTCF designation with an emphasis on Long Term Care. As these graduate studies are intense and agents who pass these are truly experts in the field of Long term Care.
As you are looking make sure you have a policy that includes at least a 2,000,000 life time benefit and included the following
In home care
In home payment of dr's, nurses, caregivers, etc
full "in facilty" care if you have to go to a facility whether temp or permanent
Full drug benefits
caregiver respite coverage ( this allows a family member who may be a caregiver to take some time off and hire staff for you )
coverage for medical devices that may be needed
Hospice care at the point of no return
The average cost is about 45,000 a year for "in facility" care and just a bit less for in home. My mother is in a facility due to her Alzheimer's, and I had her at home for 6-yrs before the decision had to made ( for safety ) to place her in care. If it was not for LTC coverage both her and me would be bankrupt and the general coverage with Medicare part A, B and supplemental ran out rather quickly.
If nothing else this is a start, and gives you some things to think about. See we are all not "Salesmen" some of us just want to ensure you and your families are taken care of.
Good Luck in your search and I would recommend seeking out an independent agent or broker, as they will have the most comprehensive training, and largest availability of carriers for you to choose from. they really do work for you and your interests and not the carriers. You may pay a bit more in commissions, but you will know the interest is in you and not the carrier.
Right now get your Life insurance in order (if not done yet) -Term not Universal or Whole Life and then once you breach the mid 50's or early 60's start seriously looking at LTC coverage.
Now these are my opinions as a professional, but you will get a ton of varying opinions on this. but that will separate the "educators" from the Salesmen.
Good Luck in your endeavors and searches.
(and NO, I am not soliciting for yours or anyone else's business. Not my style)
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Well, it's an interesting market. Many insurers are getting out of it all together and premiums are continuing to go up while benefits go down.
But it can help to maintain your assets if leaving them to heirs is important as they may not be eaten up entirely by health care. Generally people get serious about it in mid 50's or 60's.
What do you want the long term care insurance to do for you and why?
But it can help to maintain your assets if leaving them to heirs is important as they may not be eaten up entirely by health care. Generally people get serious about it in mid 50's or 60's.
What do you want the long term care insurance to do for you and why?
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks - I am single and I don't see any benefits to life insurance. What I have seen though (as young at my age) is older friends going into nursing homes and having to lose ALL of their assets in order to get decent care. I'm single, never been married, no children. I don't have any major illnesses, but I insist on living my life on my terms and my goal is to spend my final years comfortable.
Dave as you say, I'm interested in asking around and getting educated and I've heard it can be a mess. I'm really interested in that education piece
Dave as you say, I'm interested in asking around and getting educated and I've heard it can be a mess. I'm really interested in that education piece
My father is a financial advisor. He always recommends clients getting long-term care insurance. If I had a dollar for every time he mentions long-term care insurance, I would be the richest man in the world.
Skysyd, what do you think of the life insurance hybrid products like Lincoln moneyguard? Those seem to be a better deal to me as they are not "use or lose" policies.
It is a fantastic product and as, at least in the US, we are aging it will become probably the most important insurance or financial decision made, unless or course you have the means to self insure.
and FYI Soapy, I bought mine at 38. 50 now. Should have waited, but when I went through all the stuff with my mom I took reason out of the game and went on emotion. Pros and cons of buying early, but now I wont get rid of it since it was one of the last ones with an unlimited lifetime benefit
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Probably so. My paternal grandmother did not have it, and the only reason she was able to afford the retirement community that she lived in is because she saved almost 100% of the money that she earned.
Alex,
not to hijack the OP's thread but it is very similar to a "Transitional Life product" I provide through Pekin. Rather than being shoe horned into a plain term,UL, VL or WL it allow for a larger bulk in term for the money making and family years, but provides a fully paid up WL at the end of the term It is a good option for those that are not diciplined enough to invest otherwise and provides enough to take care of finals, without any additional Und. concerns. I have not looked in-depth at the moneyguard, however I think that is where everything is headed, inlcuding those that have a return of complete premium in the LTC field. Although I dont think those will be around long as financially it could be a brown cow for the carriers. Most of what I offer since I am a full product broker revolve around the carriers I can put everything with, but on LTC I have to look at Monoline and it is getting tougher.
My wife and I do not have it, and she is now in long-term care at a nursing home. When we got serious, it was too late because of her health issues. The care is now something I must fund myself. Would rather not, but too late for that now. I really don't know anything about it, but at a support group I spoke briefly with a gentleman who had a policy with his wife, and one of the provisions was apparently that if one of them died the policy would revert to the survivor. Such types of provisions would be something to check into.
- Thread starter
- #12
an unlimited lifetime benefit would be nice.
My Step-Father passed away in 2008 and my Step-Grandfather recently passed. I've learned a little bit about how the nursing homes work. My Grandfather did it right and he had it planned on his terms. After a couple of months, I see that he also took care of my Grandmother (93 years old, home health care and assistance, etc.) That's the life I want to live if I make it to my 90's. Seems like it's a worthwhile expense. My Step-Father didn't take advantage of those opportunities available and it wasn't fun.
After writing this, a friend in his 50's who had a stroke about a year ago just posted on Facebook "Coming home to being served by the hospital for unpaid bills, yet we have a payment plan set up? Did I mention how much I hate insurance, hospitals and doctors!?"
I don't want any part of that and want to consider all of my options.
Soapy:
All I can say is this, I understand your frustration with Insurance, I see it every day with my clients, however as John mentioned most of us aren't reminded enough, whether that be by salesmen, educators, our even that little voice inside us to research what we need. You are in a good place thinking of it now. The only reason I have it is because I am in the industry. Failing that I feel good and don't have the internal crystal ball, however going through taking care of my mother, watching the Alzheimer's take its toll, an now being a senior care volunteer and advocate for the Alzheimer's Assoc, I talk to everyone about it as Matthew mentioned above. So if that like most, think I am being a salesmen, then so be it and I will wear it with honor, because the alternative of having to tell a client that they cannot qualify, or even worse telling a spouse there is no coverage is much worse. I guess the best piece of advice is to, again find yourself an agent educator that does not care so much about the commissions and more about finding you the right product to fit your ling term, needs.
All I can say is this, I understand your frustration with Insurance, I see it every day with my clients, however as John mentioned most of us aren't reminded enough, whether that be by salesmen, educators, our even that little voice inside us to research what we need. You are in a good place thinking of it now. The only reason I have it is because I am in the industry. Failing that I feel good and don't have the internal crystal ball, however going through taking care of my mother, watching the Alzheimer's take its toll, an now being a senior care volunteer and advocate for the Alzheimer's Assoc, I talk to everyone about it as Matthew mentioned above. So if that like most, think I am being a salesmen, then so be it and I will wear it with honor, because the alternative of having to tell a client that they cannot qualify, or even worse telling a spouse there is no coverage is much worse. I guess the best piece of advice is to, again find yourself an agent educator that does not care so much about the commissions and more about finding you the right product to fit your ling term, needs.
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I am a Cfp, don't receive commissions from these products and generally advise clients that at the very least they need to consider it unless they don't care about spending their assets down to zero.
The problem is that people don't purchase these sorts of products when they can, and ultimately want to buy them when they can't qualify.
The problem is that people don't purchase these sorts of products when they can, and ultimately want to buy them when they can't qualify.
OH so true in fact I have that very statement on a sign in my office
Echoing what Skypsyd said, try to find out if there is an Alzheimer Support Group around that puts on educational programs. One of the ones I go to will have a Medicare, Medicaid and Private Insurer presentation at their next meeting. And see if there is an eldercare lawyer around that you can talk to about living wills and asset conservation. Relative to the support groups, it would seem fruitful to talk to people actually in the midst of the experience before you enter it. It was a real eye-opener for me!
An eloquent testimony. Buying LTC insurance can be expensive, but try needing it and not having it. That is a real bummer. Inform yourself and find a trusted advisor/agent. As Skypsyd said, you should not be SOLD, but educated on options so that you can make best decision for your own personal circumstances.
My wife and I bought policies last year. They're expensive and trends are such that premiums will likely go up over time. Long-term care insurance is basically asset-protection. If you're rich, you may be able to self-fund long-term care and not need insurance. If you're poor, don't bother because you probably can't afford the premiums and Medicaid will kick in.
It's the middle class that needs to buy this insurance. Some advisors say to wait until you're about 60-65 years of age. Others say to buy younger while you're healthy before medical problems appear. In any case, few companies even sell policies anymore because people live longer, are in care longer, and the cost of nursing increases faster than inflation.
It's the middle class that needs to buy this insurance. Some advisors say to wait until you're about 60-65 years of age. Others say to buy younger while you're healthy before medical problems appear. In any case, few companies even sell policies anymore because people live longer, are in care longer, and the cost of nursing increases faster than inflation.
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