No guard DE?

mjclark said:

Superb! And it looks so good.
I guess blade exposure and razor weight are the crucial factors in devette mechanics.
Along with choice of blade of course

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Thanks. Looks almost good enough to eat, doesn't it?

Choice of blade is definitely a key factor. Last two shaves with the EJ-BBX-Weber were with an Indian Green, my No. 1 blade in any razor. You want sharp and smooth in a devette, methinks.

DEGuy said:

... Damn, this thing shaves super-close. I no longer fear the R41 after using this razor. I'm not sure I'll venture into its territory again. Anything less than mindfulness could end in something akin to placing one's face in a deli meat-slicer. ...

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But you probably thought that when you first tried the R41, right? Sure, there's a learning curve, but after a while you do actually enter a comfort zone (note: comfort, not complacency).

"DEGuy ... innocently trying a little hobbyist experiment ... but finding out, like the countless others who preceded him, that there's no such thing as innocence in ... "

Viseguy: I roared when I read your response--well done, brother. It's true '...there is no such thing as innocence in The Twilight Zone'.
Indeed, one cannot afford to be complacent when using an R41 or a barless razor

The no-guide-bar razor shaved smoothly and close. But I wouldn't tempt fate for myself; I'm an older guy, and the likelihood of losing focus for a split second is a real possibility; and one cannot lose focus when using a barless razor. I would guess a milder razor, like a Merkur 23C with its less blade exposure, would work more comfortably with the bar removed. I'm headed back to RR Baby Smooth. It was a fun experiment that worked well.

DEGuy said:

Update
Just shaved with the above, but on stubble that was only hours old. Damn, this thing shaves super-close. I no longer fear the R41 after using this razor. I'm not sure I'll venture into its territory again. Anything less than mindfulness could end in something akin to placing one's face in a deli meat-slicer. And if one's not careful, very careful, it will bite like a Tasmanian Devil. Fortunately, I had no nicks, weepers, or cuts. It may have been first-time luck. I think if I want similar blade exposure, I will look into an R41 and put the safety back in safety razor. But I confess, I've never had a closer shave. It's a bit tricky on one's upper lip, notably under one's nose. I was concerned about the stubble where my upper lip meets my mustache area, but I came away unscathed. Also, if one needs to learn 'zero pressure', this razor is 'the' rapid-teaching short-course. It was fun, guys. I kind of expected Rod Serling to appear in the mirror, "Roger has decided to take it upon himself to test fate. He's gone beyond time and space and into another dimension--a dimension we call (pause) The Twilight Zone." Da-da-da dum.

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It was no luck and no coincidence. I have had one nick when I answered the phone while shaving Some may thing its a blasphemy, but I consider devette less dangerous than my other razors, especially shavette and R41. Still I cut twice my thumb of other hand, and heard viceguy did that too, so be careful with your hands, not face.

You make good points. I found that I had to be careful loading and handling the razor. One is always at risk of getting their fingers 'bitten' when handling the razor. This much exposed blade with no safety bar demands mindfulness. Were I continue to use this razor, I've no doubt that a finger of thumb would eventually get tagged by the blade. This razor is the closest I've come to the feel of a straight-razor shave. No, I don't use straights; and the one time I had a straight shave was from a barber when I was in the service (way back in the day).

Gytis said:

It was no luck and no coincidence. I have had one nick when I answered the phone while shaving Some may thing its a blasphemy, but I consider devette less dangerous than my other razors, especially shavette and R41. Still I cut twice my thumb of other hand, and heard viceguy did that too, so be careful with your hands, not face.

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DEGuy said:

You make good points. I found that I had to be careful loading and handling the razor. One is always at risk of getting their fingers 'bitten' when handling the razor. This much exposed blade with no safety bar demands mindfulness. Were I continue to use this razor, I've no doubt that a finger of thumb would eventually get tagged by the blade. This razor is the closest I've come to the feel of a straight-razor shave. No, I don't use straights; and the one time I had a straight shave was from a barber when I was in the service (way back in the day).

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I've definitely drawn more blood from my hands than from my face with devettes. After a period of walking around with bandaged fingers a lot, I've learned to keep my other hand out of the way.

Syx005 said:

I just read this whole thread front to back. Quite the journey, I must say.

You people are either insane or brilliant. Once I work up the courage, I will prove one to be true...

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"Insane" and "Brilliant" are not mutually exclusive.

Speaking of "brilliant," the idea of grinding off all of the teeth on an OT except for the corner teeth is pure genius. I need to buy a damaged OT and perform that surgery ...

Gytis said:

Thanks for the reference, King camp. There I found most important evidence that almost in very beginning of DE shaving some people realized futility of guards and took them off. Unfortunately we dont know how do they called this perfect tool.

View attachment 565240
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Today I got my first two cuts with devette (I dont count last time I got a nick when answering a phone). Not serious ones, but one will be seen tomorrow. Actually I have no clue what happened - I saw them when I finished. It should be my poor technique with vintage carbon blades... I will make one or two more attempts to get it tamed, still I dont think I like the blade.

Gytis said:

...with vintage carbon blades

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Ooh! What blades are you using?

I'll have to get out mine one day soon, might even try this leaving the edge piece on, probably help a lot in keeping the blade stiff. Pretty impressive this has gotten up to over thirty pages!

mjclark said:

Ooh! What blades are you using?

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This was Neva blade, made in USSR somewhere in 1976-84. here are some pics.

OK so I gave it a go. I'm familiar with Tech's as I have 3 of em. I like mild shavers and always shave with the shallowest angle possible. Multiple passes for BBS results without irritation are possible using blades ranging from Derby to Polsilver to Feather. I'm also a fan of SE razors and I've used shavettes, but that's another story. Regardless of the razor I can't use a steep angle. That just causes me irritation.

Anyway here's the Tech with guard removed but end pieces left to protect the blade. The other side still has the guard intact...



So first attempt using a Derby blade. . I like/need a shallow angle or I get irritation. Without the guard the head allows for a seriously shallow angle. It also allows for a seriously steep angle obviously. Total control of those angles is now in the hands of the user because there's no obstruction. It doesn't take much to get the angle wrong.

I started off too steep. I think muscle memory had me trying to use my normal Tech angle of attack and it took a wee while to realise just how shallow I could go. The end result was a very close shave with a bit of irritation on the lower neck. No cuts but a few small weepers which I rarely get, ever. At some point I realised thin lather is best so I could see the blade at work. That made things easier. The Derby was smooth but next time I'll try a sharper blade.

Dunno what to make of it really but here's some thoughts...On one hand I'm thinking why bother? I can get BBS shaves without the modification using a Tech and same blade and without the potential risks.

On the other hand I'm thinking...Irritation aside my face feels different. The face feels cleaner and the shave feels deep, a bit like an SE razor. I say a bit because my 1912's shave deep. This shave feels similar. I've got to press my fingers deep into the skin searching for stubble. Maybe I should cut a guard off all my razors.

Thing is I like all my razors. They all have different characteristics and I enjoy the variety. Removing a guard changes them, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it changes them. We'll see. I'll give it some practice with maybe a Feather or Polsilver and see how my thoughts change.

I'm thinking the biggest potential of the Devette is the ultra shallow angle on the ATG pass for the closest shave. I got there tonight but the irritation was already there caused by the first WTG pass at too steep an angle.

More shall be revealed.

Much like Dave-the-Rave, I had some skin irritation the day after my exposed-blade shave. I managed scrape my skin, upper lip, and had some ingrown stubble. The shave was the closest I've had; but the price is too great to use this again. I might be able to eliminate the negatives if I alter the angle somewhat; but for me, I'm not sure it's worth the result. Skin irritation and ingrown stubble is too much for me to deal with; and my other favored razors, Tech, DE89, and RRBS deliver good to great/smooth shaves, notably the RRBS.

I would think a Tech is a great candidate for this modification: not too much blade exposure and an intuitive shaving angle. I used a DE89 cap on a RR Mission razor base. The Mission's blade alignment could not be corrected; and as it turned out, it was the upper cap that was the cause. So using the DE89 cap and the Mission's base worked great on my no-safety-bar razor. This was an interesting and enjoyable 'single' experience in double-edge shaving. However, Dave's post has me considering sacrificing one of my pristine 1974 Techs and doing this again.

Dave-the-rave said:

... On the other hand I'm thinking...Irritation aside my face feels different. The face feels cleaner and the shave feels deep, a bit like an SE razor. I say a bit because my 1912's shave deep. This shave feels similar. I've got to press my fingers deep into the skin searching for stubble. Maybe I should cut a guard off all my razors. ...

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"Deep" is the word. For me, no razor goes deeper, with less irritation, than the devette. Sad to say, my ATTs, Fatips and MMOCs have been gathering dust.

Gytis said:

This was Neva blade, made in USSR somewhere in 1976-84. here are some pics.

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Hey! They look great - I always prefer carbon steel to stainless and there's something fascinating about NOS blades.

Dave-the-rave said:

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And that Tech is awesome!
I mainly use SEs and straights for the quality of the shave, and get irritation using shallow angle with DEs which is why I like the devette so much.
Only steep angle DE shaving works for me and the devette simply gives the best shave available.

Devettle compared with an R41

I'm requesting your opinions: how would you say the latest edition of the R41 compares with the 'devettes' many of us have made/used. I haven't used an R41 in several years; and my time with the Muhle was limited to a couple shaves only. My technique needed too much refining at the time to get into an R41. These days my techniques is good and I can exercise a light touch. Thanks, guys.

DEGuy said:

Devettle compared with an R41

I'm requesting your opinions: how would you say the latest edition of the R41 compares with the 'devettes' many of us have made/used. I haven't used an R41 in several years; and my time with the Muhle was limited to a couple shaves only. My technique needed too much refining at the time to get into an R41. These days my techniques is good and I can exercise a light touch. Thanks, guys.

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I have been wondering exactly the same thing.
I've got a nice 2013 R41 with a sweet bulldog handle and I'm going to be using it extensively soon for a blade trial so it will be interesting to find out...

MJClark: Thank you! I usually use mild razors; however, after using the 'devette' I made, thanks to you suggestion, I prefer more blade exposure to the middle-of-the-road blade exposure razors. I love my RR Baby Smooth razor: it's mild, yet efficient. And the effect I found with the devette is that I had a better shave than I get from some of middle-road aggressive razors like Merkur 37C and I had tried a 34C about two to three years ago. I vaguely recall the 34C as more aggressive than my DE89, but not a comfortable razor. Nonetheless, I was tempted to try a 34C again, as many of us buy, sell, and buy again... it's a ongoing cycle, as I'm sure you know.

Back on subject: I decided to order an R41 and try it with a none-too-sharp blade, Astra SP. I'll admit that I fear a super-sharp in the Muhle. As much as I like the devette shave, a bare blade opens a host of possible user-faults for me. One slip of a non-steady hand one one is committed to some slicing. My touch with the devette was fine--nice and light, zero pressure, and it worked beautifully. But I did have some post shave irritation and a few ingrowns that I notice hours post-shave.

For me, the R41 will be an exercise absolute serious-DE, big-boy, this-is-it, no-nonsense, male body-parts to-the-wall shaving. I'm old enough that big-boy should be supplanted by old guy; however, the anticipating an experience that feels more like a kid with a new bicycle (I'm dating myself--these days it's probably a new super-smartphone).

mjclark said:

No - I really thought they would cause a problem with steep angle in the RiMei but they don't!

I'm not sure why, since it's counterintuitive, and it definitely goes to show that the true mechanics of the steep angle are still obscure.

Perhaps because the skin is flexible and not perfectly flat, the guard corners cause the skin to bow outward slightly.
It's a great opportunity for some more diagrams

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I hear you. The truth of the tension-power formula is unassailable, lol! In the case of steep angle, edge goes directly to hair, potential energy is stored in the flexing hair, and the springing of the blade is not in a particularly skinward direction. The skin is being displaced anyway... Should be a clean miss, and a short gradient back to full efficiency, based on your data.

One would have to do at least three animations to show the microscopic machinations at different speeds and angles of pitch. I think we're going to need a real artist.

kingfisher said:

So, anybody have a beater Gillette NEW or something that they are willing to sand off all the teeth except for the ones on the end and give us a report?

I like Mr. Calhoun's idea of leaving one side of the razor as it came from the factory, and turning the other side into a modified devette. It's the best of both worlds!

Unfortunately, all my NEWs are too beautiful to mess with. Maybe I can hunt down a true user grade NEW at an antique store or on e-bay and give this a try.

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I went to the antique store in search of a postcard, and found my first NEW LC for $7. No cracks or teeth missing... A good many dings, and not much plate, but still. To make it 80 years, and then this? Do I even have the right?

p38thadl said:

I found my first NEW LC for $7. No cracks or teeth missing... A good many dings, and not much plate, but still. To make it 80 years, and then this? Do I even have the right?

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King Camp Gillette would have positively wanted you to do this ... and you will have made an exact replica of Calhoun's original version