The 1931 Goodwill #162

This unusual razor arrived in the mail yesterday.



When I saw it on eBay I wasn't sure what it was, but Achim's site soon revealed that it is a Goodwill #162. A quick search found a post by the ubiquitous Jeff_H from which I was enlightened that the term Goodwill came from the fact that these razors were given away free with a packet of NEW blades during the depression, and that they were made of leftover parts and that the #162 was made only in 1931.

Gillette was trying to promote his new thin blades by giving away a free razor to use them, as they wouldn't fit in his old razors.

The #162 is made from the old type 102A with the thicker cap. There would have been a cost to Gillette in the machinery and labour for restamping and, if the standard on mine is a guide, replating.

Since Gillette was trying to promote the new thin blade, I wondered whether

1. the restamping altered the charactistics of the razor to complement the new blades, or
2. Gillette engineers considered that the new blades worked as well in the Old Type design as the original 3 hole blades.

If the later, then my theories regarding the need to shim Old Type razors to compensate for the thinner more flexible blades would need to be revisited.

So I loaded up the #162 this morning with a 7 O'Clock yellow for a test drive. Coincidentally, I had recently conducted a 6 day comparion between the 102 and 102A heads, including not shimmed, fully tightened.

The result of this mornings shave was, I feel, a slightly closer result of equal comfort to the 102A in original form, but I'll need more testing. If confirmed this would indicate that the additional stamping may have altered the razor characteristics infavour of the new blades,

Does anyone have any experience, opinions or comments on this rather nice art deco style razor?

Cheers, George

Those Goodwill are very classy. There is also a Goodwill with that cap style based on the NEW. IMO those are the nicest Goodwill razors.

Congrats!

I noticed that one on the 'Bay because it is in such good condition. Beautiful art deco design. If you like the way the old type shaves, you will love that Goodwill.
Enjoy, George.

nuclearblast said:

Those Goodwill are very classy. There is also a Goodwill with that cap style based on the NEW. IMO those are the nicest Goodwill razors.
Congrats!

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The Goodwills that were made by modifying NEWs started with a razor designed for a thin blade. My delibaration was about whether they could adapt the older designed razor to actually promote a different design blade.

Thanks Doc, I am already.

Cheers, George

Nice razor, good score, and thanks for the history lesson. Enjoy the shaves.

GBinOZ said:

The Goodwills that were made by modifying NEWs started with a razor designed for a thin blade. My delibaration was about whether they could adapt the older designed razor to actually promote a different design blade.

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I was merely commenting on the looks of those razors ... and yes I understood what you meant, but since I haven't tried them I can't comment on performance, right? [emoji102]

nuclearblast said:

I was merely commenting on the looks of those razors ... and yes I understood what you meant, but since I haven't tried them I can't comment on performance, right? [emoji102]

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Right! Appearance wise, I really like that art deco engraving on this one. The way the guard has been altered reminds me a little of the NEW SC.

Cheers, George

Apologies Edgar, I was mis-reading your post. Were you saying there is a Goodwill/New with the same modified old type cap as on the #162?

Cheers, George

GBinOZ said:

Apologies Edgar, I was mis-reading your post. Were you saying there is a Goodwill/New with the same modified old type cap as on the #162?

Cheers, George

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There is one shown below. But there was some question if that cap was original to that bottom plate.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ence-is-VERY-mild-shave?p=6166760#post6166760

This is from the Krumholtz guide:


"The major reason the Goodwill idea was promoted was to wean the public away from the old three-hole 'No Stropping, No Honing' blades in favour of the new long slot blades. The old style blades would not work in Goodwills, of course, nor would they work in the NEW GILLETTEs."


"There are two distinct styles of Goodwill razors, and it must be understood thatthe Goodwills were made up from parts - parts from Old Type razors and parts from NEW GILLETTEs. The only concession made for the Goodwill was the #160 cap, which was manufactured solely for the use of the Goodwill series.


The most common version of the Goodwill is the Standard Goodwill #160. The indented #160 cap was designed to accept the 'reverse studs' of all Goodwills made up from NEW GILLETTE parts. The #160 guard was a NEW GILLETTE guard that had not had the centre slot milled, but had two diamond reverse studs created in a punch press. By reverse studs, I mean that the studs went through or into the cap of the guard, rather than the studs being placed in the cap, and going through the guard."


"Another type of Goodwill made up from NEW GILLETTE parts was the Special Goodwill #175 which used a #160 cap. The guard was the same as found on the Standard Goodwill, except this razor had received the milling operation of the centre slot. The guard is different from that of normal NEW GILLETTES in that it has the protruding 'reverse studs' punched in. This razor was produced in extremely small quantities only in 1931.


The last version made from NEW GILLETTE parts was the Special Goodwill #170. This razor retained the #160 cap but featured two 'L' shaped studs punched into the guard. These took the place of the diamond-shaped reverse studs. This version was also produced in extremely small quantities only in 1931.


All other Goodwills were fabricated from surplus Old Type parts; two versions of these razors were produced. The first of these was the #162 Reverse Stud Goodwill. This razor features reverse studs in the diamond shape that were punched in the Old Type guard in the same manner as the standard Goodwill. The cap had the same diamond-shaped holes punched out which corresponded to the studs. Also, corner positioning posts were bent into the cap ends. This razor was produced only in 1931.


The #164 Reverse Stud Goodwill was made in a similar fashion. The difference is that the guard had a slotted centre hole and the cap had 'inside slot positioning posts' that corresponded to the guard's slot. This razor was only produced during 1931.


The tops of the caps of both the #162 and #164 Goodwills were embossed with a tasteful decoration that borders the punched out diamond holes."

xillion said:

There is one shown below. But there was some question if that cap was original to that bottom plate.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ence-is-VERY-mild-shave?p=6166760#post6166760

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Thanks for the link Chris. After reading the extract from Krumholtz I'm not much wiser but I would also be suspicious in that regard. I note the owner also comments on the poor quality of the shave.

Cheers, George

There is another New type Goodwill with the embossed cap show in the thread below.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/406359-The-Gillette-Goodwill-Bad-RAD

GBinOZ said:

Gillette was trying to promote his new thin blades by giving away a free razor to use them, as they wouldn't fit in his old razors.

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This is not quite correct. The NEW blades fit fine in older Gillettes -- that's how we're able to use them today even with modern blades. What was different about the Goodwills is that they would only take the NEW Gillette blades (or their Probak blades with the same features) and not any of the older three-hole, round-end blades that were being made by many other manufacturers at that point.

Also, the thickness of the blade didn't really change dramatically with the NEW blades that were out in the '30s. The most significant change there wasn't until the Thin blades of the '40s.

On the larger question of how the various Goodwills shave, I don't personally detect any consistent difference between them and their equivalent non-Goodwill counterparts.

Here is a comparison shot of my New Type Goodwills and their caps.

From the left: #170 made in USA, #175 Made in Canada, French Market Goodwill Made in England.

Also, if we're broadening this to Goodwills in general, let's not forget the short-comb NEW variants that seem to have come out of the South American plants:

MacDaddy said:

This is not quite correct. The NEW blades fit fine in older Gillettes -- that's how we're able to use them today even with modern blades.
Also, the thickness of the blade didn't really change dramatically with the NEW blades that were out in the '30s. The most significant change there wasn't until the Thin blades of the '40s.

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Hmmm..I was hoping that goof had escaped attention. What I had intended to say was that the old blades woudn't fit in the new razors. Thanks Porter.

I didn't know about the blade thickness of the 30's. Are the 40's thin blades the equivalent of modern blades in that respect?

Am I reading Krumholtz correctly in thinking that the #160 cap for the NEW style Goodwills was manufactured specially rather than recycled from old parts?

Cheers, George

Porter,

You have really thrown a cat amongst my pigeons with the remark about blade thickness. I have been working on the premis that the old 3 hole blades were thicker and stiffer than the modern blades so I would shim pre-NEW razors to compensate. If I am to be consistant with this theory, on what you are saying, I should shim nearly all OCs.

Is there a chart or reference for historical blade thicknesses? A quick search revealed this thread:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...hickness-possible-effect-on-razor-performance

which does talk a little about shimming and thicknesses, but can you share with us a more definative reference?

Cheers, George

In 1931 Advertising & Selling published a report that mentioned the Goodwill. Google books has two copies with substantially the same text:

https://books.google.com/books?id=bNoSAQAAMAAJ
https://books.google.com/books?id=UzPmAAAAMAAJ

About a year ago it was estimated that while there are 800,000,000 males with shavable beards in the world, Gillette had put razors into the hands of only 115,000,000 of them. Even assuming the existence of a small number of other styles of razors, it must be evident that the untouched market is still an enormously large one. Regardless of what the outcome of the Segal suit will be, it is obvious that a countless number of other, smaller, more elusive imitators will continue to manufacture substitute blades.

Gillette, accordingly, is currently engaged in introducing a still newer style of razor; one designed to prevent the use of substitute blades. This razor, somewhat ambiguously named the "Goodwill," resembles the original "new" razor in every way except that the section into which the blade is clamped has a number of little studs so arranged that only a blade of a special pattern will fit it. These studs are varied in position in fifteen different ways and only the patented Gillette pattern will fit all of them. The purpose, obviously, is to discourage the manufacture of substitute blades and especially to keep the dealer from stocking them through fear that his customers will not be able to use them on their "Goodwill" razors. For while it might be possible for a substitute to be made to fit one of the stud arrangements, there is always the fear that the customer's razor will have a different one.

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In retrospect Gillette was a totally different company under new ownership. Auto strop owner Geisman fired all Gillette administration as he won ownership of Gillette in legal courts. Geisman made up the Probak razor as a way to compete with Gillette. It eventually became the goodwill razor.

That's a very nice looking Goodwill, both the cap and base plate are slightly different to my old type goodwill.

Mine has a slot across the handle hole & the edges of the cap & plate are the same as a normal old type. ( Here )