I have a NOS razor with a factory edge that feels sharp and will shave arm hair... It feels about like it would if I just set the bevel.. The question is do I have to take it all the way down to 1000 stone and re-set the bevel or can I just start in the middle? Do you guys always take your new razors down to 1K and refresh bevel?
Bevel Setting Question
- Thread starter t-haw
- Start date
No harm in trying to start in the middle. No point in removing metal if you don't need to.
If you're confident in assesing the bevel as being as good as one you've done yourself....
Me - I usually reset bevels completely - regardless of where it came from.
Unless Nelson honed it. Then I don't need to do anything.
If you're confident in assesing the bevel as being as good as one you've done yourself....
Me - I usually reset bevels completely - regardless of where it came from.
Unless Nelson honed it. Then I don't need to do anything.
If the bevel is set then it is set no matter who set it, use whatever test you choose to make it is set.
The only caveat (doubt it is the case here if it was a factory set bevel) is if tape was used to set the bevel and you are trying to hone without it.
I usually dull the edge on the stone, Alex Gilmore calls it "joining the edge" and then build some slurry either using a diamond plate or a tomo nagura and set the bevel and finish the razor as usual. This is for previous shave ready razors-ebay stuff gets the full treatment.
The only caveat (doubt it is the case here if it was a factory set bevel) is if tape was used to set the bevel and you are trying to hone without it.
I usually dull the edge on the stone, Alex Gilmore calls it "joining the edge" and then build some slurry either using a diamond plate or a tomo nagura and set the bevel and finish the razor as usual. This is for previous shave ready razors-ebay stuff gets the full treatment.
I try never to do that with new or NOS razors. If it already shaves arm hair, absolutely not !!
Why would you remove steel if you're already that far?
If it shaves well, no problem.
If it doesn't, you can either do some laps on an abrassive paste, or use a finishing stone (with/without tape) first.
I tend to use a regressive approach. First I check whether it's already nicely shave-ready after a decent stropping. If it isn't, I do laps on a coticule (water only), if necessary I'll introduce a hint of slurry, if that doesn't work etc... That way I'll never remove more metal than necessary.
Why would you remove steel if you're already that far?
If it shaves well, no problem.
If it doesn't, you can either do some laps on an abrassive paste, or use a finishing stone (with/without tape) first.
I tend to use a regressive approach. First I check whether it's already nicely shave-ready after a decent stropping. If it isn't, I do laps on a coticule (water only), if necessary I'll introduce a hint of slurry, if that doesn't work etc... That way I'll never remove more metal than necessary.
Do what?
reset the bevel.
Ahh. To each his own.
Does it easily shave arm hair?
If a blade passes my sharpness test(s) then I don't reset the bevel. Out of curiosity my recommendation is to strop and shave to see how the factory edge shaves. If you are at a point where you only like your own edges then hone on your favorite finisher.
- Thread starter
- #11
Ended up resetting the bevel and fininishing on Jnat asagi. Had to regress a few times as Toe and heel needed work. Finally got it to an "acceptable" level and will shave with it tomorrow and see. It needed a ton of stropping which somehow seemed to fix it. It was much more difficult than my last effort. How often do you professionals have to go back to a razor and give attention to a certain spot on the blade that is not passing HHT like the rest of the blade. Is this from not setting the bevel correctly in the first place or what?
In the world of honing, the bevel is either;
a- done right
b- not done
I'm not sure what an 'acceptable' bevel is, but it sorta sounds to me like a half-arsed job.
Sorry - but that's what it seems like to me.
There is no amount of stropping in this world that will cure a poorly done bevel. I don't use the HHT for anything but I can tell you that the bevel IS the edge and unless you nail it, all subsequent work is a complete waste of time.
The phrase 'polishing a turd' may apply.
So far as going back to work part of an edge - if you mean after the blade was finished and shaved with - that would indicate that either the bevel wasn't done correctly or there is some sort of issue with the edge or your shaving technique is wonky.
Micropitting, wire edges, a not-done bevel and too high of a shaving angle come to mind.
FWIW - I'm not a pro, and I'm still learning.
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- Thread starter
- #14
If that's happening during the honing process - it could be anything from an undone bevel all the way to a blade that just doesn't want to cooperate. Weird geometry can cause that also. Excessive toe wear for example - you think you're hitting the toe perfectly, but a slight miss here/there can leave that area behind the rest of the edge.
In that case - it's best to catch up on the stone where it starts.
The heel is where I see this most - the spine wear above the heel can be, often, really messed up on an ebay blade. Sometimes, somehow, there is no spine wear there - but move to the heel and there's a 1/8" flat. You think the heel is hittting the stone but a loupe will show that you're 'just' kissing it, and not really working it.
I hone a lot of 'junkers' - some of them give me reason to use the loupe on the heel during and after every stage.
I have one like that right now actually. The bevel was 'fine' by most indicators but I could feel it was off.
Turned out there was a gentle 'hollow' in the bevel between the very edge and the Shinogi.
A passing glance wouldn't show this, but 10x on an angle proved it.
In that case - it's best to catch up on the stone where it starts.
The heel is where I see this most - the spine wear above the heel can be, often, really messed up on an ebay blade. Sometimes, somehow, there is no spine wear there - but move to the heel and there's a 1/8" flat. You think the heel is hittting the stone but a loupe will show that you're 'just' kissing it, and not really working it.
I hone a lot of 'junkers' - some of them give me reason to use the loupe on the heel during and after every stage.
I have one like that right now actually. The bevel was 'fine' by most indicators but I could feel it was off.
Turned out there was a gentle 'hollow' in the bevel between the very edge and the Shinogi.
A passing glance wouldn't show this, but 10x on an angle proved it.
- Thread starter
- #16
is there a specific thing you do to bring the heel in line. It is the area of the razor that seems to "go wrong" or at lease "go less right" first. The fact is it spends less time on the hone during an x stroke. minimal I know but "less". I end up using a finger of pressure on the heel 1/2 the time for a few passes if it is not sharpening as well as the rest of the blade. Realize this is still very new to me so I am just learning to feel the progression of the blade. Also do you use the loupe while the blade is on the hone? If so, how do you use it. I have been using the water / slurry flow to determine the level of blade contact, is the loupe useful in this way?
I am a newbie to honing, and am still discovering something new every time I take to the stones, so take this with a big grain of salt. If an area isn't working out for you, like the heel on your razor, you need to spend more focus on that spot. Worry less about stroke count, x strokes, etc, and more about working the troubling area until you are seeing changes in scratch pattern there.
Take a razor, drop down to your bevel setting stone, and gently reset the bevel. Try to take uniform strokes in a similar direction so bevel scratches somewhat consistently. (or use sharpee and hone however the heck you want). Take a look at the resulting bevel in your loupe off of the stone (or with naked eye in sharpee situation). Does the entire bevel have uniform scratches (or was all sharpee removed equally) along the length of the bevel, including the hard to hone heel?
I'd bet money that the answer is that in your "go less right" heel the answer is no. Keep working heel until you see uniform scratches across the entire bevel (as much of it as you care about towards heel/toe) and THEN progress to your next stone.
This is my understanding of what a bevel set being done or not done means, and I would bet that your areas that seem to go wrong may be from just not quite getting there at bevel set.
Take a razor, drop down to your bevel setting stone, and gently reset the bevel. Try to take uniform strokes in a similar direction so bevel scratches somewhat consistently. (or use sharpee and hone however the heck you want). Take a look at the resulting bevel in your loupe off of the stone (or with naked eye in sharpee situation). Does the entire bevel have uniform scratches (or was all sharpee removed equally) along the length of the bevel, including the hard to hone heel?
I'd bet money that the answer is that in your "go less right" heel the answer is no. Keep working heel until you see uniform scratches across the entire bevel (as much of it as you care about towards heel/toe) and THEN progress to your next stone.
This is my understanding of what a bevel set being done or not done means, and I would bet that your areas that seem to go wrong may be from just not quite getting there at bevel set.
Heel leading strokes can help even out some problems, or rolling strokes. There are probably other methods but I rely on those two.
I'm not a fan of doing that.
no, I only use the loupe after I rinse and wipe the blade, and then I inspect under off-axis lighting.
I use undercut to judge progress - but I don't use/need a loupe to see it.
I'm new to honing but this is how I started getting good shaveable edges. set the bevel every grit and if I ever need to go back I know I can reset at any point in my progression.
Before and after pics would be helpful here.
