"G in D" Stamp

Ace McCool · Sep 24, 2013

I wanted to make a thread to see if there is any new information about the "G in D" stamp on razors for the French market. From what I can find from reading old threads it was originally thought that this was a stamp on silver razors imported into France, but it has appeared on Gold razors as well including this one I recently purchased. Is the consensus still that this stamp was on any plated items imported into France? Is it possible that it was there to distinguish plating from the actual metal?

Here is a Big Fellow I recently bought. I thought it was a mismatch as in French it reads "Imported from England", yet the Razor is U.S. made. However, I saw the G in D stamp which means the razor was imported to France like the case was.

Has anyone seen examples in French sets that a case would be imported from England, and a razor was imported from the U.S. and they would have been sold in the same set?

Cheers.

MacDaddy · Sep 24, 2013

I'm reasonably satisfied that the mark is something that the French government required on goods that were plated with a precious metal during this time. It's possible that the thinking was something along the lines that if a piece were completely unmarked it would be much easier to add fraudulent hallmarks to it and try to pass it off as solid gold or silver.

On the case and the razor, I'm less sure. The imprint in the headliner (without the "Known the World Over" tagline) looks much more like it should be a NEW-era case, rather than New Improved. Achim has a mixed example (below) with a case made in the U.S. and the razor made in England -- a combination we've seen plenty of other examples of. While it's certainly not impossible it seems odd that if they were making the cases that they wouldn't also have been making the razors.

What's the serial number on your razor? Knowing a date range might help come up with a better hypothesis.

Ace McCool · Sep 24, 2013

Thanks for the information Porter, and yes I never thought about the logo.

The serial number is 337864B which puts it early 1923, and does not do me any favors. If it was a 1929 set it would make more sense you are correct. However I have been researching - and this may add a twist to this theory.

Remember this set of Jakes:

An Old Type set made for the French market shown in a 1924 catalog with the same logo as my French New Improved set from 1923 (No Known the World Over). I will try to find some more French sets from this era, but what do you think?

elmerwood · Sep 24, 2013

Here's one of mine like your pictures above. No serial numbers though.

MacDaddy · Sep 24, 2013

Yes, those cases I've always assumed were made in France and matched up with imported razors there in-country, though I don't know that for certain. They're remarkably similar to these Star cases that I've also commonly seen come out of France.

Again, I suppose it's not impossible that your case was made in France with the intention of holding an English-made razor but then they had a hiccup in supply and ended up getting a shipment from the Boston plant instead. But, then again, that also seems like an awful lot of gymnastics to make it fit. I dunno... I'd have a hard time saying much of anything definitive here.

Ace McCool · Sep 24, 2013

Oh ok, I didn't realize those other cases were actually made IN France. I didn't know Gillette had any manufacturing there - I thought everything was imported.

alex2363 · Sep 24, 2013

MacDaddy said:
Yes, those cases I've always assumed were made in France and matched up with imported razors there in-country, though I don't know that for certain. They're remarkably similar to these Star cases that I've also commonly seen come out of France.

Again, I suppose it's not impossible that your case was made in France with the intention of holding an English-made razor but then they had a hiccup in supply and ended up getting a shipment from the Boston plant instead. But, then again, that also seems like an awful lot of gymnastics to make it fit. I dunno... I'd have a hard time saying much of anything definitive here.

We do appreciate your theories and educated guesses. They do seem to make sense to us and we in most instances agree with your suggestions. You do say much definitive things and we at B&B appreciate it and i am sure i am not alone thinking this.

alex2363 · Sep 24, 2013

Ace McCool said:
Oh ok, I didn't realize those other cases were actually made IN France. I didn't know Gillette had any manufacturing there - I thought everything was imported.

You are correct in a way. Gillette did have a make shift factory in France but it was more of a front to work a soon expiring patent. The French did pick up on it and Gillette basically just made blades more than anything else.

MacDaddy · Sep 24, 2013

Ace McCool said:
Oh ok, I didn't realize those other cases were actually made IN France. I didn't know Gillette had any manufacturing there - I thought everything was imported.

Like I said, I don't know that they definitely were. That's just my own extrapolation from the differences between them and other Gillette cases and the similarities to other cases I've seen come out of France. There definitely was a Gillette plant in France, even up until relatively recently (the late '80s). Though they were mostly a blades plant, they do seem to have done some other manufacturing there, as well.

For one thing you've got the fact that we believe that the "W" suffix was used for French-made razors during the New Improved era, though I've personally never seen or even heard of one. (Anyone who wants to prove me wrong there is absolutely welcome to post evidence over in the non-US New Improved serial numbers thread I started here.) I've also got this case, that would be slightly later than the New Improved era, but certainly earlier than the Monobloc (though still probably post WWII):

Dhilip also has a couple of more intact examples here.

Another entirely likely possibility is that Gillette France contracted out the manufacture of cases to some local third-party manufacturer rather than spin up the capability in their own plant. That could explain the similarities these cases have with others -- of course, that could also just be due to the tastes of the market.

As for why Gillette would have bothered doing all of this, it's possible that there was a different in import tariffs between bringing in full, finished sets and shipping in some pieces to be assembled into sets, along with other French-made parts, within France that made it financially advantageous for them to do it that way.

alex2363 · Sep 24, 2013

MacDaddy said:
Like I said, I don't know that they definitely were. That's just my own extrapolation from the differences between them and other Gillette cases and the similarities to other cases I've seen come out of France. There definitely was a Gillette plant in France, even up until relatively recently (the late '80s). Though they were mostly a blades plant, they do seem to have done some other manufacturing there, as well.

For one thing you've got the fact that we believe that the "W" suffix was used for French-made razors during the New Improved era, though I've personally never seen or even heard of one. (Anyone who wants to prove me wrong there is absolutely welcome to post evidence over in the non-US New Improved serial numbers thread I started here.) I've also got this case, that would be slightly later than the New Improved era, but certainly earlier than the Monobloc (though still probably post WWII):

Dhilip also has a couple of more intact examples here.

View attachment 370873

View attachment 370874

Another entirely likely possibility is that Gillette France contracted out the manufacture of cases to some local third-party manufacturer rather than spin up the capability in their own plant. That could explain the similarities these cases have with others -- of course, that could also just be due to the tastes of the market.

As for why Gillette would have bothered doing all of this, it's possible that there was a different in import tariffs between bringing in full, finished sets and shipping in some pieces to be assembled into sets, along with other French-made parts, within France that made it financially advantageous for them to do it that way.

Would the out side third parties be in any violation to make Gillette cases? Wouldn't Gillette want the profits of making the cases themselves, the England factory was only 360 miles away [6 hours across channel].

MacDaddy · Sep 25, 2013

alex2363 said:
Would the out side third parties be in any violation to make Gillette cases? Wouldn't Gillette want the profits of making the cases themselves, the England factory was only 360 miles away [6 hours across channel].

Not really sure what you mean here. What I'm talking about is a subcontracting type arrangement like the one Gillette had with the American Button Company in the U.S. Gillette could have contracted with some other company to purchase a volume of cases at a given price, and then that just contributes to their overall cost of production. There wouldn't be any conflict because this hypothetical third party would have been making the cases specifically for Gillette.

Ace McCool · Sep 25, 2013

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Porter - We learn so much from you.

I'm off to find the correct razor for this set - It should be easy to find a NEW Big Boy Deluxe...Gold... Made in England.. With the French G in D stamp.. :laugh:

Cheers.

mountainsea · Aug 27, 2014

I received a pack of French Gillette blades today from a friend

now roughly translated (using Google) it says :-

This package contains 10 Gillette blades has slot protected by patents throughout the world and built according to patent french SGDG Nos. 613.634 etc

is it at all possible that the G in D on razors is short for SGDG ?

if this has been mentioned before then forgive me - there is so much stuff to read on here it is so easy to miss something! :001_smile

nuclearblast · Aug 27, 2014

No.

The SGDG is short for "Sans Garantie Du Gouvernement"* and applies to products manufactured in France.

The G in D was stamped on imported razors.

* Without government guarantees.

EDIT: I forgot to say. Porter seems to think these marks were a legal requirement, to identify the maker. I agree, and I think that the G stands for Gillette, going beyond that is overthinking the whole thing.

mountainsea · Aug 27, 2014

"Patented SGDG" stands for without government guarantees, was in France a legal statement releasing the State from liability on the proper effective operation of the device patented .

This statement has been prepared by the law of 1844 which states that patents are granted "without screening, at the risk of applicants and no guarantee as to the existence, novelty or merit of the invention, either fidelity or accuracy of the description.
"

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