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Mystic Waters Lather Tutorial

Over the past few months, I have read some posts where members say that Mystic Waters is a difficult soap to lather. I'm hoping to dispel that opinion, because MW is really not difficult to lather. I will admit, it is a touchy soap to lather with very little forgiveness, but when you know how to lather it, it is not difficult.

The lather technique is not similar to any of the common techniques out there, such as the Marco Method. The reason for this is because MW is sensitive to water. A little water goes a long way (and by a little water, I mean a few drops). This sensitivity to water is the reason most people miss the lather with MW and get a "disappearing effect" with their lather when shaving.

The reason I am doing this is simple: MW is one of the best soaps I have ever shaved with! When you get that lather just right, this soap is a world beater. I developed this method of lathering MW with input from other members of this forum. I use this method every time I use MW (which is probably 50% of my shaves), and I rarely miss the sweet spot. Give this method a try for yourself.

For the basics: I am using a Simpson's Colonel X2L in Best Badger. It is the only brush I own. It has a good backbone for soaps, but is also soft on the face. Soak the brush in water prior to beginning to soften up the hairs. Also, I highly recommend a bowl to use. The technique here uses a bowl. I have used my hand before in the past, and that works just fine. I do not recommend face lathering this soap. You must add water slowly and fully incorporate it before moving to the next step. Face lathering does not allow for this.

Next, the soap. In this lather, I use one of my favorite scents, Orange Vanilla

$2013-07-06 00.06.57.jpg

Before beginning the lather, take the brush out and shake out all of the excess water. All of it. The hairs should still still be a touch wet, but you don't want any water in the brush at all. This is completely contrary to the Marco Method, but this is because of MW's water sensitivity. The key to this soap is to start dry and incorporate water slowly.

Now, with your dry brush, begin to lather on the puck for a solid minute. The product will start to get on the hairs, but it will not lather. After a minute, your brush will look close to this:

$2013-07-05 23.59.23.jpg

The product should be fully loaded on the brush and will be quite sticky. This is normal with MW soap. When we were test lathering this soap, some members referred to this as "gummy tendrils."

Once you get the product on the brush, add about 5 drops of water (that is not a typo, about 5 drops is all you need). I add the water drops using my DE. I dip the head of the razor into water using the handle (so the razor is upside down), pull it out of the water flat, and then let the drops fall off the razor onto the brush. It is the easiest way I have figured out how to do it. During our test lathers, we found that adding one-quarter of a teaspoon at a time was the right amount (and I actually used a measuring spoon to get this number).

Once you add the water, go back to the puck and begin to lather again for another 45 - 60 seconds. The sticky quality of the lather will begin to change slowly. After 45 - 60 seconds, it will look a bit like this:

$2013-07-06 00.01.22.jpg

The lather starts to take form. From this point, again add about 5 drops of water onto the brush and mix again, only this time in a bowl. You can also add the water at the bottom of the bowl. Mix thoroughly for about 45 - 60 seconds and the lather looks like this:

$2013-07-06 00.02.43.jpg

The lather starts to get more volume to it. The gummy quality to the product is just about all gone and you start to see the lather coming to form. Now when other soaps look like this, I say to myself, this soap has a long ways to go. But with MW, when you get to this point, you're almost home. All you need is one more addition of about 5 drops of water. Add the drops, mix for about 45 - 60 seconds, and you get this (continued on next post):
 

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This transformation happens quickly, and with very little water. If you get it wrong, you will get the disappearing effect. Get it right, and the shave you get is second to none!

A few other notes. First, when you get this ratio down, do not mess with it in any way. Do not add any more water! I have made this mistake. For example, I rinse in between passes and forget to pat the excess water off of my face. This will ruin your lather. A few times, I was sloppy in rinsing my face and water got into the bowl. That ruined the lather. MW is really that sensitive. Also, I have never had luck with this lather in a scuttle. The heat just seams to break up the lather and the disappearing effect rears its ugly head.

As for those who have had difficulty in lathering (or for those who have given up altogether), I hope you give this technique a try. It does not require any more work than most other soaps. It is just different than lathering those. I admit, it is easy to grab my Cella, pull the brush out of the water and swirl away. While the methods are different, the time it takes me to lather using each method is about the same.

I really hope this helps people discover just how great a soap Mystic Waters is. There are a ton of great scents to try, and the shaves I get with it are top notch. If you haven't tried it yet, I highly recommend it. And if you are one of those who have given up on the soap because you experienced that disappearing effect, give this method a try. Even though that sweet spot is narrow, when you learn how to hit that spot, this soap is second to none. Good luck!
 
I really want to like MW because her scents are really good, but anything that requires this level of instruction just isn't worth it FOR ME. I have too many other great idiot-proof performers for MW to be worth the trouble.
 
I really want to like MW because her scents are really good, but anything that requires this level of instruction just isn't worth it FOR ME. I have too many other great idiot-proof performers for MW to be worth the trouble.
+1. I've tried MW umpteen times and have always ended up with disappearing lather. Is it really worth all the trouble? Even if you nail it, will it really compare to Mike's, MWF or even Tabac?
 
It's a minor change in technique, not assembling a Saturn rocket.... Where exactly is the "all this trouble"?

Thanks for the write up Joey! BTW, you can face lather MW with exactly the same technique, adding a few drops to the brush slowly.
 
Yeah, it's incredibly easy to lather for me, and better than all 3 listed on my face. (Although I will always have mikes and the fat). I'm also an impatient guy, if it didnt work for me, I'd move on. In fact very popular mdc, cella, and many Italian soft soaps do nothing for me at all.
 
I've used two full pucks an a couple of samples. I bought the coconut for my daughter, but she didn't like it and I finished it up. I'm currently on the sensitive skin. I use the method she recommends in a small card that arrives with the soap. (1) soak the brush in hot water and (2) put a couple of tablespoons of hot water on the puck for a few minutes. (3) Shake all the water out of the brush (I'm using a WD 24 mm) and pour the water off the puck. For me this is generally the exact amount of water needed, but I may need to dip the tips in water after 10 or 20 swirls on the puck. It will look creamy with the right amount of water. When the soap is about half-way up the brush, it is adequately loaded. I generally load a bit more than that--about three-quarters. I build the lather in my palm, which takes 10 to 20 seconds. It looks exactly as pictured above. I put the brush down and rub the later from my palm in my face and let it rest for 2.5 minutes, timed w/ my cell phone. I wipe the later off and then re-lather. I've used proraso preshave before the re-lather and it helps a little bit, but is is not absolutely necessary. I use the samples when I travel. I take about a pinky fingernail amount and smash it at the bottom of one of those $1.50 salsa bowls from Wal-Mart. I use the same technique with the brush. Again it is usually just about right, but may take one dip of the tips of the brush if not exactly right. Again, I'll take a walnut sized clump of lather to apply to my face with my hand and let it soak in for 2.5 minutes first, then wipe it off with a washcloth soaked in warm water, and proceed to lather. When I travel I use a synthetic brush, and those require a few more drops of water than the badger. I use the same technique for Strop Shoppe. The Marco Method for me works better on the melt and pour style such as Mama Bears or Kell's.
 
Thank you for this tutorial. I have gotten this quality of lather intermittently with this soap but never on a consistent basis, which ultimately led me to stop using this soap except for when I was feeling lucky. I will definitely give your method a shot and see how it works out. I just hope it becomes more consistently luxurious, otherwise I will just stick to Mikes.
 
I use a similar method for lathering all types of soaps, not just MW.

it is a no-fail lathering method for any shaving soap in the world, and it is not harder to do than other lathering methods. In fact, it's easier than most. There's virtually no waste. It's nowhere near as messy as the Marco method, and other methods that start with very wet brushes.
 
I use a similar method for lathering all types of soaps, not just MW.

it is a no-fail lathering method for any shaving soap in the world, and it is not harder to do than other lathering methods. In fact, it's easier than most. There's virtually no waste. It's nowhere near as messy as the Marco method, and other methods that start with very wet brushes.

I started to use this method for all lathers as well until I ran into thirsty soaps like Mike's. I found the Marco Method to be more appropriate for those soaps. Your sentiments are accurate in my experience that this is a no-fail lathering method. It is a very easy method and allows you to mix with the most amount of accuracy. The idea behind developing this method was that you can easily add water, but once added, you can never remove. This method allows for fine-tuning, whereas a method like the Marco Method, while effective for many soaps, don't allow for that type of adjustment on those more sensitive soaps (such as MW).

The fact that I want to emphasize after reading some of the initial responses is that this lather method really is not that much trouble. It's just different than other methods. It just tweaks some of the steps, but by no means reinvents the wheel. This soap is definitely worth utilizing this method. Plus, it is another method you can use if you find difficulty lathering a new soap.

If you've tried it and still don't like the lather, that's fine, to each their own (or, YMMV). But I would ask that you try this method first before completely writing it off. My goal was to not only get people who have written this soap off to try it again, but to also allow it to serve as a tutorial for people who have never tried MW. I don't want them to be intimidated with this soap. The goal of this thread was to be a tutorial for people to use in lathering the soap, not a sounding board debating whether it is worth the effort (there are plenty of those threads elsewhere). I would respectfully ask that we keep comments pertaining to the method and/or tips others have used to lather MW, and keep that debate off this thread.
 
Awesome looking lather on that hand shot. :001_tt1:

That's how my MW turns out too....Thick and creamy with a nice sheen to it.

When I face lather, I use a similar method but instead of adding drops of water, just ever so gently dip the tips of my brush in the sink.

Great tutorial. :thumbup:
 
I really want to like MW because her scents are really good, but anything that requires this level of instruction just isn't worth it FOR ME. I have too many other great idiot-proof performers for MW to be worth the trouble.



I really like MW when it comes together, the post shave feel is amazing, as are her scents. However, I do not go to this crazy length and I face lather as well, sometimes I get awesome lather, other times it's pure crap..I only use it once every 2-3 weeks because of this and once my puck is gone I most likely will not buy more. I want to face lather and shave, not change to using a bowl and counting every drop of water that goes in. In my opinion, no matter how great a soap is...if you have to completely change the way you lather and treat it like a volatile laboratory experiment...it's just not worth it.
 
I do not go to this crazy length and I face lather as well...

Crazy Lengths? the OP is not doing anything crazy or unheard of with his lather making here. Is it the "counting 5 drops" that you find so crazy? because that's the only thing he does in terms of measuring or counting precisely...and I'm sure 4 or 6 drops would work, or even a quick brush dip in some water with tips. the 45-60 sec of swirling is a wide window and will vary depending on pressure and brush.

There have been numerous methods discussed in the past at length by many members, including myself with pictorial and video instructions? If you watch mine or Vez2's videos, we aren't using bottle water, we aren't measuring water or counting swirls, we pretty much lather it with ease and aren't doing anything crazy or difficult. I rinse my face between passes with no issues and everyone may tweak the method a bit.

I think the key here that will help everyone lather MW better, is to start with a "DRIER BRUSH".

If you have trouble with a soap or cream or razor for that matter, using it every 21 days is not helping you dial it in. Use it daily, and you'll be amazed how quickly it comes together.
 
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Crazy Lengths? the OP is not doing anything crazy or unheard of with his lather making here. Is it the "counting 5 drops" that you find so crazy? because that's the only thing he does in terms of measuring or counting precisely...and I'm sure 4 or 6 drops would work, or even a quick brush dip in some water with tips. the 45-60 sec of swirling is a wide window and will vary depending on pressure and brush.

There have been numerous methods discussed in the past at length by many members, including myself with pictorial and video instructions? If you watch mine or Vez2's videos, we aren't using bottle water, we aren't measuring water or counting swirls, we pretty much lather it with ease and aren't doing anything crazy or difficult. I rinse my face between passes with no issues and everyone may tweak the method a bit.

I think the key here that will help everyone lather MW better, is to start with a "DRIER BRUSH".

If you have trouble with a soap or cream or razor for that matter, using it every 21 days is not helping you dial it in. Use it daily, and you'll be amazed how quickly it comes together.


As I have said in previous posts, I used over half of a Mysore Sandalwood puck trying to dial it in and now I am about 1/4 of the way through a Marrakesh puck. Considering most other soaps I hit the floor running after a handful of lathers, I have spent more than enough time trying to dial in this soap....I've watched all of the videos as well, which do not really help to be honest, as this soap varies too wildly based on brush, water type and user habits. My point is this is a great soap, when it works, hell if I could get more than a 40-50% success rate it might be my go to soap, but it should not be this tricky to have 100% success..the original poster just makes it sound even more complicated in my opinion by counting drops and using tools (a razor) to add water like it's a science experiment. Also, in my experience, loading the brush that dry is hell on the hair/knot.
 
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I have spent more than enough time trying to dial in this soap...

Fair enough. I just know many have tried and tried and tried, then something just clicks and it starts to work. I was there once too, so I do realize how frustrating it can be.

Sounds like you have given it plenty of trial and error and there are plenty of other great soaps that work for you.
 
the timing of this thread is impeccable. I just had the best shave of my wet-shaving life (4 years plus, 3 months seriously) with mystic waters irish traveler. I had been very frustrated with it before this. I so wanted to like it, because i think they do everything right, and michelle seems like a truly nice person. but the lather was always anemic and disappeared immediately, and i felt like i was beating the hell out of both my badger and horsehair brushes. i watched several youtube videos, followed their techniques, same results, including today--at first. when the lather started to disappear i said the hell with it and added a tiny glob of proraso green cream to my bowl, and a few more drops of water. suddenly--lather porn! it was amazing, the best lather I've ever had, and all i could smell was the mystic waters soap. none of the proraso menthol/eucalyptus (which i love) at all. i generally really enjoy my shaves (i have numerous soaps and creams: multiple tobs, strop shoppe, mama bears', razorock, musgo real, holy black, al's bombs) and get good results with all of them, but today was exceptional. technically not mystic water alone, technically a superlather, but who cares. i'm hooked. have a great day!
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
the timing of this thread is impeccable. I just had the best shave of my wet-shaving life (4 years plus, 3 months seriously) with mystic waters irish traveler. I had been very frustrated with it before this. I so wanted to like it, because i think they do everything right, and michelle seems like a truly nice person. but the lather was always anemic and disappeared immediately, and i felt like i was beating the hell out of both my badger and horsehair brushes. i watched several youtube videos, followed their techniques, same results, including today--at first. when the lather started to disappear i said the hell with it and added a tiny glob of proraso green cream to my bowl, and a few more drops of water. suddenly--lather porn! it was amazing, the best lather I've ever had, and all i could smell was the mystic waters soap. none of the proraso menthol/eucalyptus (which i love) at all. i generally really enjoy my shaves (i have numerous soaps and creams: multiple tobs, strop shoppe, mama bears', razorock, musgo real, holy black, al's bombs) and get good results with all of them, but today was exceptional. technically not mystic water alone, technically a superlather, but who cares. i'm hooked. have a great day!

Excellent post. This is why the acronym YMMV is not just a saying we have here. I am one of those who don't prefer Mystic's or Mike's. Love the scents. After 4 years of tws, and owning many, many soaps, I can lather any soap. I have watched all the videos. It was watching my good friends video Vez2 on MW's website which led me to purchase several of her products.

I can build copius amounts of thick, rich lather, gleeming with shine from MW and Mike's. However, in my personal experience, both of these soaps have no staying power during the shave and go flat. And while the post shave feel is awesome, The impending thinning lather doesn't provide the glide I am looking for during my shave. So, while people say they cannot lather them, I can. I just don't prefer how they work for me. Just a personal ymmv preference nothing more.

I am glad I saw Vez2's video, as I would have never known about Michelle's hair products otherwise. Her hair & body soaps and oils are the best money can buy, of which we are regular customers.
 
I want to thank the OP for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation of his lathering technique with my soap. I guess I'm the exception to my own rule or something because when I do demos at the market I start out with a brush that's slightly wetter than the OP uses: after soaking the brush I shake it exactly three times so that it's holding some water but not dripping wet, pour off the small amount of water that I put on the puck to prepare it, and load for about 40 seconds until a thick cream forms. I obviously don't face lather, but go to a bowl and start to stir/beat and add a little water (but not measuring or anything) and get it incorporated before adding more. I get thick creamy lather that just won't quit, every time, in under three minutes. Today I experienced the "gummy tendril" thing for the first time...keep in mind that we were out in the Washington D.C. heat today (93-feels-like-103 degrees) and pretty humid. I was using a sample of Sardinian Honey and the texture kind of freaked me out but I decided to keep going and a few seconds later the tendril thing disappeared and the lather became extremely unctuous and thick. I was glad I kept going long enough to see that it was just an unexpected variation - maybe caused by the honey, maybe something due to the excessive heat of the day?

I guess what I want to say is that it can work in different ways for different people. It may be a question of "feel" that comes with habitual use...my favorite anecdote is about a customer who blamed his repeated difficulties on his hard water. In the interests of "science", he sent the soap and a bottle of his local water to another customer who promptly proceeded to whip up his usual great lather, hard water and all. Luckily, the first gentleman was a great sport about it and I'm happy to report that it's working for him too now.
 
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