Are there razors that will NOT take an edge

So, figured "in for a buck..in for a bundle". I picked up a relatively inexpensive coticule and $5 Chinese Double Arrow razor with which to practice before I put my nice, professionally honed Dovo on the rock..I really don't want to mess it up, at least not right away. I have read the posts, watched the You Tube videos, all that good stuff. Did the slurry thing, x-passes, little ovals, etc.

Why is that $5 razor still as dull as dishwater?

That razor should take an edge but getting a bevel set on it with a Coticule will take a LOOOOOONG time.

+1, you might want to take that to a ~1k stone to set the bevel first. If you don't have a lower grit hone, PM me. I'll gladly set the bevel for you and you can finish on the coti.

Setting a bevel is the hardest thing for people to understand and grasp. They just cannot fully understand it via written word. Most all poorly honed razors are the result of a poor or lacking bevel. The mistAke too often made is spending way too long on a finisher.

Coticules are not an all in one stone, says me (debate that on your own time). Too often they are misrepresented and new guys told it's the rock to get. It is nice, yes. Takes a bit to really understand them.

Add also that honing a GD is hard!! You'd be better off removing frowns as chips from a vintage wedge. They are prone to several issues, most commonly with the shoulders. This takes a bit of grinding for the razor to lie flat.

Get a marker. Test it. ( search marker/ sharpie test).

So, you have a little bit stacked against you in that sense. Another thing I often hear and see wrong when people are learning is they are terrified to exert any pressure. On the bevel setting you will use some pressure.

I realize none of that is exciting news, but at least now you know. Plenty will disagree and that's cool.

I'm happy to help you in any way I can. I do help you reach a solution.

Like others have said, coticules require a little work to bevel on, and GD's tend to leave the factory with a VERY rough grind.

Another thing I often hear and see wrong when people are learning is they are terrified to exert any pressure. On the bevel setting you will use some pressure.

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This. If you're beveling on a coticule and not using pressure, you're gonna be there awhile.

To echo Rick's point, pressure is needed. The key is to try to keep it as even as you can and progressively let up more and more as you more on in honing.

Double arrows were the low end Chinese razors, till the Gold Dollars became popular. I had recently bought 5 of these razors, and much to my dismay, these are prone to developing cracks in the edge while bevel setting. Of the 5, 2 had this problem, though to be completely fair, the 2 that had this issue, I was trying to set the bevel on an Amakusa cheap Japanese stone. The other 3 took a nice bevel on a DMT 1200. Though the scales on these seem more like antique razors, I would rate Gold Dollars as a better value than Double Arrows. Also, in my experience the grinding and finish are better on the GD 66.

Best regards,
thepusher

thepusher said:

Also, in my experience the grinding and finish are better on the GD 66.

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Chuckle. and that's saying something.

OP: lotsa slurry. lotsa pressure, lotsa laps. Coti's will do it for you, you just gotta be one with the rock. General rule of thumb: if you think that you have the bevel set, it's not set. When you *know* it is set, then you're good to go. The problem with a coti is that it's all slurry / pressure at this point in the game. If you were on a synthetic, you could say "use ___ to set the bevel, then move to the next grit down and do that one". With a coti you gotta kinda zen it into a dilution mode with a little water here and there, some laps and pressure, but not too much, but not too little... learning to hone from scratch on a coti is likely kinda tricky. I learned on a norton 4k/8k to start out, so it was much more straightforward.

If you'd like, send it to me, I'll get you a bevel on it, and you can take it from there? Or would that be taking away your fun? If you get to the point you just wanna throw it on the floor and step on it (the hone or the razor), maybe you'd like to take me up on it.

fromm 72R, probably the biggest rip off on the market. glorified letter openers they are.

Wut? I'm no expert on GD's but I thought GD's and DA's were the same razors just sold under different brands?

Ian, that was my impression as well. It may be that the ones I got were a poor representation of the brand, for the GD 66s that I have worked with (about 15 of them) were better finished and more consistent in quality than the DA. I have had one bent tang on the Gold Dollars, but the edge and the grind, in my view is better on the GD than on the DA. I had used the GDs before, so when I saw DAs on ebay, I thought I should try them, as they are not as easily found as the GDs. For me, I will stick with the GDs in the future. This not go say that DAs can't be honed or will not hold an edge, but that they cost more (just a bit more) and in my experience, are not as well made as the GDs that I have worked with so far.

Best regards,
-thepusher

Give it 20 minutes of medium pressure on a 1K then a couple minutes fine honing, then move to your coticule.

Um, is that a La Grise coti...

When I hone a gold dollar, I always start on the dmt 600 or even the 325. That gets the pre bevel. Then I will dull on glass and reset the bevel on the 1200. The glass dulling will get rid of the microchips from the low grits. I have the dmt 120 grit. And Ive used it a couple times. Big time saver even with the extra time honing out the micro chips.

I really like the edge off a La Grise, but would never, ever, dream about trying to set the bevel of a razor with one. You need a 1K sorta stone.

Acmemfg sent me his DA to put a bevel on and then send it back. Yowch...poor guy, this razor needed more help than that...no wonder he couldn't set the bevel. We had a little bit of frown going on, a little warp, and, good golly...a shoulder problem like I'd never seen before on a GD. Must be a Double-Arrow characteristic.

So here we go.

as received -- a bit of rust at the edge



post initial sharpie test. yeahhh, baby.


the funnest part of all -- check out where the shoulder/stabilizer meets the edge. See the little bump?


lemme get you some close ups:




at this point I contacted him and asked him if I could do whatever I wanted to it. He said yes, so out came Mr. Dremel-lookalike:


it ain't pretty, but got the job done:



after some significant time on the DMT to get rid of other issues and just man-handle it into submission. Ended up with a bit of a smile on it:



Tightened up the pins (they were pretty loose), gave it a coticule treatment. Took a couple tries to get it like I wanted to, and sent it back.

Tadah! No, it's not pretty, and yes, I'm sure some of you guys could do way better, but it was a fun project and a useable, honable, comfy-shaving razor squirted out the other end of the process line.

Hope you like it!

@Krodor,
Good pics and well done mate!
I've played with lots of GDs lately and you did good.

...and oh hell yes, it shaves as well as anything else I have ever used. Now I have some idea as to what to do and hopefully will (eventually) get the hang of this discipline over time. No worries though, I realize there is much to learn and have no plans on getting in over my head.

Acmemfg said:

No worries though, I realize there is much to learn and have no plans on getting in over my head.

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Now where's the fun in that?