Kamisori, Shavette, Straight.

It's prolly becoming no secret that I practically am in love with Japanese culture and other things, the love story started when I was in high school and well nowa day's is STILL just as strong except I've had some dreams come true. No I don't live in Japan even being fluent in the language I just can't cut it financially but have been there many times to visit when I was more affluent, I am married to a lovely Japanese woman that I met while on a visit to Japan and have learned the language among many other things.

And now onto my blasted point, no one wants to read about my old history here in a shaving forum so with out further hesitation.

I discovered Kamisori straights, I do not own one currently as they are expensive to my blood for the moment. Also I have been a big fan of Feather brand among others, and also discovered their shavettes in both folding and kamisori non folding styles. My question is on Kamisori SR's how are they? How do they shave and could some one new to SR shaving learn on one, what are the big differences from traditional SR's, is stropping different or general care and honing? How do they compare to shavettes aside shavettes use disposable blades.

I of course formed a desire toward Kamisori as they are traditional Japanese shavers who knows how far back they date design wise, they look ancient and historical and I'll do more reading on them and the history but want to get a modern shavers opinion and details on use and care and all of that.

Also same goes with shavettes as I don't think outside a Kamisori I would too much care for all the maintenance of scales and all of that a traditional SR's requires, then again I will likely get a Boker or a Dovo in the future as well once I get into SR shaving currently i am a DE man using Murkur and ED89.

Also a good place to get excellent Kamisori would be nice as well, I've no clue where I could get one when the time comes.

There's a couple of threads around that extol the virtues of a kamisori. I haven't used one, and have no desire to, but I can probably answer a couple of your questions.

One big difference in shaving with a kamisori vs. folding straight is that the kamisori was designed for a person to shave someone else, primarily using a single hand instead of switching. You can easily use one to shave yourself, but the angle changes from side to side. It has to do with the asymmetrical grind. If you don't already shave with a folder, you won't really have to relearn anything, so I don't think that matters too much.

Stropping should be pretty much the same, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The asym grind might come into play here, too.

Honing is similar to a folder, but different. Once again, since you don't know how to hone yet, you'll just be learning the kamisori way instead of the folder way.

I think the non-folding shavettes are closer to shaving with a folder, simply because of the symmetrical design. I may be wrong on this.

I think the most economical way to find one would be ebay, but you're taking a chance with what you get. You're more likely to get a bum one just because you don't know what you're looking for. I think the *best* way to get one would be the B/S/T forum. You'll get a kamisori of known condition, probably already honed, and a fair price. Maybe a bit more than the bay, but fair.

As for the care and feeding of folding straights, it's going to be about the same as a kamisori. There really isn't much maintenance needed for the scales. Some wooden ones might need to be oiled occasionally, and some scales don't like water, but I don't do *anything* to maintain my scales. You can get started a bit cheaper with a folder, but if it's not what you want, I'd just save up and head straight into kamisoris.

It's no secret I like Kamisori.


IMO they are easy to hone, easy to strop, easy to use, easy to care for.

But they USED to be hard to hone, hard to strop, hard to use, but still easy to care for.

The difficult thing with kamisori is there is no 35.00 beater you can buy to cut your teeth on. If you mess up your razor either dropping it, knocking it into the faucet, mishoning it or putting it away wet, you are out at least a 100.00. More if you buy a nice one.

I personally aesthetically ruined a NOS Kamisori on my first go around. It still shaves like a dream, but it's no longer a beauty queen, and it lost 50.00 or more in value.

My true belief is that learning to hone is integral to enjoying the straight razor experience. It is very liberating to not have to worry about inadvertently dulling a razor. It is also imperative that you be able to tailor your edge to your preferences.
To be a good honer you need to know what a good edge is, and unless you know how to shave you will never know what a good edge constitutes to you. So my advice is to get a cheap razor and strop, learn to shave with it, then learn to hone it, then dabble in Kamisori. You could buy one now to display and take a few test shaves with, but stick to a cheap western to begin with.

There are a few guys who started straight with a Kamisori, but they are rare.

Good luck! 90% of the fun is the journey.

I am a Kami lover - I like the traditionals, the Westerns (symmetrical grinds sometimes made from shortened straight razor blades), the Feather AC and clones, and recently, SextoBlades. However, I didn't start with Kamis, I started with a handful of beater razors (which I still have). I learned what to do and what not to do on 10-20 dollar cast-offs that ended up being very good shavers.

I said all that to say that I think Kentos, who has a good deal of Kami experience, has a familiar approach. I essentially went that route and am glad I did. As it is, I still got a little screwed by an eBay purchase of my first Kami - paid too much for a knackered vintage one. It still shaves but it was overpriced. It also needed a bit of honing to take out a few mistakes the previous owner had made. I was happy I had figured out the honing skills before I got it.

They give very nice shaves if you do your part.

Kentos said:

It's no secret I like Kamisori.
View attachment 301529

IMO they are easy to hone, easy to strop, easy to use, easy to care for.

But they USED to be hard to hone, hard to strop, hard to use, but still easy to care for.

The difficult thing with kamisori is there is no 35.00 beater you can buy to cut your teeth on. If you mess up your razor either dropping it, knocking it into the faucet, mishoning it or putting it away wet, you are out at least a 100.00. More if you buy a nice one.

I personally aesthetically ruined a NOS Kamisori on my first go around. It still shaves like a dream, but it's no longer a beauty queen, and it lost 50.00 or more in value.

My true belief is that learning to hone is integral to enjoying the straight razor experience. It is very liberating to not have to worry about inadvertently dulling a razor. It is also imperative that you be able to tailor your edge to your preferences.
To be a good honer you need to know what a good edge is, and unless you know how to shave you will never know what a good edge constitutes to you. So my advice is to get a cheap razor and strop, learn to shave with it, then learn to hone it, then dabble in Kamisori. You could buy one now to display and take a few test shaves with, but stick to a cheap western to begin with.

There are a few guys who started straight with a Kamisori, but they are rare.

Good luck! 90% of the fun is the journey.

Click to expand...

Kentos,
Thanks for this guidance. Just started with straights and am trying to proceed slowly and patiently, but part of the end game for me is to one day get a Kamisori or two. This advice helps with the waiting.

Kentos said:

View attachment 301529

Click to expand...

Don't leave us hanging! Which brands are they?

They are

Brian Brown Damascus 8/8
Takami 6/8
2 unsung black smiths
Henkotsu

I have a Jenes Sandor 8/8 symmetrical grind coming too.

Still looking out for a Tosuke and a Iwasaki in the future.

Excellent! They're drool-inducing. Thanks.

I'm mostly doing the kamisori thing along with my disposables (Feather AC, DEs). My recent acquisitions are in this thread: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ictures-Japanese-Razors?p=4759338#post4759338. I have a lot of practice with a folding straight and the Feather, so adapting to a kamisori wasn't too much of an issue, and I agree with others that it might be wise to get something cheap to cut your teeth on. I think it's very doable to jump in to Japanese razors with no other background and get along well. Mindfulness is important. Once a bevel is set, honing most kamisori is a relatively simple thing, and the angles and pressure can be learned much the same as any other razor.

I think that sometimes people try to turn this into a mindless activity. "Just follow the instructions", "do what master says", or, "just wing it and hope you stumble upon a good technique". It doesn't need to be a passive experience or one of blind trial and error. Think about what you're doing and you can save a lot of confusion and trouble.

Kentos said:

They are

Brian Brown Damascus 8/8
Takami 6/8
2 unsung black smiths
Henkotsu

I have a Jenes Sandor 8/8 symmetrical grind coming too.

Still looking out for a Tosuke and a Iwasaki in the future.

Click to expand...

If you are up to it, feel free to bore those of us still lacking Kamimojo with detailed descriptions about how each of those Kamis shave. I am also curious if there are any consistent differences between the traditional product from Japan and what we see here from Western craftsman.

To be honest they all shave quite well, except for one of the nonfamous blacksmith's one, which is due to a slightly uneven grind. That eveness could be ground out on the stones at the expense of aesthetics.

I would say the large BB Damascus one shaves very nicely, but so does the Henkotsu, as well as the Takami. There are MANY more members on here who have Tamagahane Iwasakis, Stainless Tosukes, huge Henkotsus and other custom Kamisori by various makers. Those guys are the true kamisori collectors.

Just like anything else, one Kamisori is more than enough for anyone, but 2 is better, and 3 is sublime.

I would like to add that IMO a Kamisori needs to be honed very well up into higher grit stones, Jnats if possible. I had one of my Kamisori honed up by a guy that knows his way around a coticule, and it was nice, but that for that little extra keeness you need something a bit more finer on the finish. I only have tried them on Coticules, Naniwa 12k and my jnats. The keeness should be something approaching a DE blade.

Kentos said:

I would like to add that IMO a Kamisori needs to be honed very well up into higher grit stones, Jnats if possible. I had one of my Kamisori honed up by a guy that knows his way around a coticule, and it was nice, but that for that little extra keeness you need something a bit more finer on the finish. I only have tried them on Coticules, Naniwa 12k and my jnats. The keeness should be something approaching a DE blade.

Click to expand...

My Henkotsu came honed for me, but I'm touching up on lapping film (1-micron Aluminum Oxide) using some of Seraphim's recommendations and the edge is excellent. I have some 0.3-micron paper but the 1-micron on paper with soapy water lubricant really did a good job. I'm not a stoner and am ecstatic that I don't need to be sourcing Japanese rocks to rub my hair-removal stick.

Nice! I actually used some .05 polydiamond spray on my jnat to see if it made a difference so I am not surprised you are getting great results from the lapping films. There is a lot of good natured ribbing between some film users and rock users, but I think everyone agrees the end result is all that really matters.

Kentos said:

Just like anything else, one Kamisori is more than enough for anyone, but 2 is better, and 3 is sublime.

Click to expand...

Kent just tripled the cost of getting into Kamis with a ripe little aphorism.

Kentos said:

Nice! I actually used some .05 polydiamond spray on my jnat to see if it made a difference so I am not surprised you are getting great results from the lapping films. There is a lot of good natured ribbing between some film users and rock users, but I think everyone agrees the end result is all that really matters.

Click to expand...

Blasphemy-you put diamond spray on your JNAT?

So does it work?

And yes I am probably one of the leaders in the ribbing to those who hone on the saran wrap, but the end result is really what matters.

Doc226 said:

Blasphemy-you put diamond spray on your JNAT?

So does it work?

And yes I am probably one of the leaders in the ribbing to those who hone on the saran wrap, but the end result is really what matters.

Click to expand...

Sure it works . But the added keenness didn't seem to make the shave any better and the darker colored spray embeds in scratches on the hone. Kinda like basting bacon with more fat as it fries.
One thing was the Jnat got super polished to the point raising tomo slurry was kinda difficult.

Kentos said:

Sure it works . But the added keenness didn't seem to make the shave any better and the darker colored spray embeds in scratches on the hone. Kinda like basting bacon with more fat as it fries.
One thing was the Jnat got super polished to the point raising tomo slurry was kinda difficult.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I will avoid it then.

Doc226 said:

Thanks, I will avoid it then.

Click to expand...

Especially on the higher dollar ones. C12k on the other hand...