de89 vs parker

i'm into wet shaving about two months now,
have been getting bbs shaves with my parker shavette..no razor burn no cuts..everything's fine..except it takes me about 30 mins start to finish.
I thought I would try the edwin jagger after reading all the great reviews.
I have been using it for about a week now and while I like it fine..it seems i have to do 4 or even 5 passes where as with my parker i would be done after two passes
and the second pass mostly on the chin area..

what am I doing wrong? with my de even after 4 or 5 passes i still have spots on my neck that feel like sand paper and I dare not do any more passes as by this point i can feel some razor burn..

my theory is... with the shavette..its very light weight i can see the angle it touches my skin and I can keep it just barely touching..

with the de I do not see where it touches my skin and i might not be right on the angle...do i hold my elbow up to get it in the slicing zone and not the default scraping zone ?


and lastly can anyone suggest a very light weight de I can try that is a tad more aggressive than the de89..
not very aggressive..about the same exposure as the parker has..


any help or advise would be much appreciated..

Thanks..
V

vreddy2000 said:

i'm into wet shaving about two months now, have been getting bbs shaves with my parker shavette..no razor burn no cuts..everything's fine..except it takes me about 30 mins start to finish. I thought I would try the edwin jagger after reading all the great reviews. I have been using it for about a week now and while I like it fine..it seems i have to do 4 or even 5 passes where as with my parker i would be done after two passes and the second pass mostly on the chin area.. what am I doing wrong? with my de even after 4 or 5 passes i still have spots on my neck that feel like sand paper and I dare not do any more passes as by this point i can feel some razor burn.. my theory is... with the shavette..its very light weight i can see the angle it touches my skin and I can keep it just barely touching.. with the de I do not see where it touches my skin and i might not be right on the angle...do i hold my elbow up to get it in the slicing zone and not the default scraping zone ? and lastly can anyone suggest a very light weight de I can try that is a tad more aggressive than the de89.. not very aggressive..about the same exposure as the parker has.. any help or advise would be much appreciated.. Thanks.. V

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I have a Merkur 23c. This feels about the same for me as the EJ, but the Merkur has a longer handle which I'm more comfortable with., you may find it better. A lightwieght razor that you might be interested in would perhaps be a Merkur bakelight.

Merkur bakelight actually sounds very intresting
from a review here
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/155279-MERKUR-BAKELITE-First-Look
"The head is severely angled down bending the blade severely enough but it looks just like the Progress"

thank you very much for that tip...

You're welcome. More experienced shavers will likely have better suggestions for you. I'm still working out what I can get away with in respect of razor burn; I get slight burn under one part of my chin where there is a silly knot of swirl. I have a sampler pack to try out and am slow to acquire new razors : reason - I think the shaving method needs to be finessed before dealing with different razors. This can be true for blades too I'm sure, so I go at least through 4 blades before changing brands - if the blade is comfortable enough.

Also read a review about the bakelite somewhere else (can't find it now - was not on B&B) - it reviewed very well. Might be a really good finishing razor. Say 1 or 2 passes with your regular razor and then a light touch up with this bakelite. Also a review is here for the 23C - I quite like this razor. http://badgerandblade.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=6044&title=Merkur-23C

30 minutes for a two-pass shave? Tells me you are still on the learning curve. Not a criticism, just an observation. After a few more weeks, you'll have the holds on the handle and the angles down and you'll be zipping through a 3-pass shave in 15 or less, if you bowl lather. Twelve minutes start to finish including clean up if you face lather.

I do about a 15 minute shave with 3 passes and touchups and cleanup now. That took maybe 6 months. Don't worry about it, you are on the right track. Just log in the miles.

vreddy2000 said:

Merkur bakelight actually sounds very intresting
from a review here
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/155279-MERKUR-BAKELITE-First-Look
"The head is severely angled down bending the blade severely enough but it looks just like the Progress"

thank you very much for that tip...

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I'm a newbie, the Merker Bakelite is my second most aggressive razor with the biggest blade gap at 30 thousandths of an inch. The first most aggressive I have is the really cheap Weishi 2003M ($10 or less on Ebay), the blade gap is smaller than the Merkur's at 26 thousandths of an inch, but the bare part of the blade that sticks out past the holder is further than in all my other razors.

Oddly enough, what you describe with the multiple number of passes with your EJ, is what I described in the newbie section with my Lord L122 Tech type razor. I've since found that there was something weird going on with the Gillette Super Thin blade, because when i put a Feather blade in, it became normal and slightly on the aggressive (for me) side. I've had a similar experience when I have a light beard with my open comb Merkur 25C, which from what I read was supposed to be aggressive. I'm puzzling over that one too, because the issue there definitely isn't the blade..
Regards,
Renato

I don't think weight plays into it. Light weight or heavy weight...you will still get a quick close shave no matter what you choose. Perhaps an adjustable razor will give you what you're looking for.

I don't think there is anything out there that will/can shave closer than what you're using now.

Funny you mention a Lord. I was going to recommend the Lord L6- a long hand,ed but realatively light razor.

I started de shaving about two months ago and still very definitely on a learning curve...I have very dry sensitive skin and a very coarse beard.. so i take it very slow especially around the chin and neck areas...
Its more like one and a half pass..cheeks get done with one pass on the parker..most of my time is spent on the chin and neck areas...

the parker shavette is something I will always have at home, but a de is better for travel for me..

since i was lucky enough to get a great shave with the parker, i keep comparing my shaves with the de ..
on the parker i can keep my angle very flat..so i am kind of slicing the hair..
but I think i am missing that when i use the de..i get the feeling i am scraping rather than slicing
and the only way i can get the slicing angle is if i raise my elbow up high...

has anyone else experienced that scraping feeling with a de ?

so i take it very slow especially around the chin and neck areas... has anyone else experienced that scraping feeling with a de ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, from my POV it starts to get a bit iffy... I'm still inexperienced, but maybe this will help: I have had 1 or 2 uncomfortable shaves with creams (Cream alone), but now I use cream / soap(so called super lather); I found that this is better. With cream alone I found the blades dragged. I still take it carefully below the jaw / chin. Really though , I think no matter what - 4 or 5 passes is inviting burn - with any razor / blade / soap combination. Maybe settle for just 2 passes, then if still comfortable try a light and targeted touch up after that. Ensure that you brush or finger lather the touch up area when doing this. For clean up - rinse the soap off with warm water then rinse repeatedly with cold water (esp under the chin). I use an alum block after this then rinse the alum off after a minute with cold water (some shaver don't like Alum) then apply Witch Hazel onto the wet face. You can pat dry the face at this point but I think it's better to just let it air dry. Also see Mantic59 or Geofatboy videos on youtube.

I was doing some random reading..
http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Faq
"Before you even pick up the razor, consider two important factors: (1) use as little pressure on the razor as possible, and (2) angle the razor handle away from your face as much as possible (more parallel to floor). Remember that pivoting-head cartridge razors are very forgiving: it is difficult to cut yourself with one. This is not the case with a DE. You want the razor to glide over your beard. Don't press down, but let the weight of the razor do the work. Don't worry. It will work. For the right angle, try this: put the top of the razor head directly against your cheek, with the handle completely parallel to the floor. At this angle, no part of the blade is in contact with your beard, and nothing will cut. Now slowly lower the handle until the blade just can cut the hair. This is the proper angle (approximately 30 degrees from horizontal) so you are cutting, not scraping the whiskers. These two practices together, no pressure and angle, will prevent you from getting irritation and razor burn. I like to think of keeping my elbow high to get the angle right."

In my earlier post I was half joking about the raised elbow..
does anyone hold a de the way its described in the extract above?
none of the videos i have seen so far seem to do it the "right way" ??!

johnh said:

so i take it very slow especially around the chin and neck areas... has anyone else experienced that scraping feeling with a de ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, from my POV it starts to get a bit iffy... I'm still inexperienced, but maybe this will help: I have had 1 or 2 uncomfortable shaves with creams (Cream alone), but now I use cream / soap(so called super lather); I found that this is better. With cream alone I found the blades dragged. I still take it carefully below the jaw / chin. Really though , I think no matter what - 4 or 5 passes is inviting burn - with any razor / blade / soap combination. Maybe settle for just 2 passes, then if still comfortable try a light and targeted touch up after that. Ensure that you brush or finger lather the touch up area when doing this. For clean up - rinse the soap off with warm water then rinse repeatedly with cold water (esp under the chin). I use an alum block after this then rinse the alum off after a minute with cold water (some shaver don't like Alum) then apply Witch Hazel onto the wet face. You can pat dry the face at this point but I think it's better to just let it air dry. Also see Mantic59 or Geofatboy videos on youtube.

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Thanks johnh.. I do use the alum block..an easy way to identify a good shave for me..
It will be two more days before my next shave..I will try what you suggest..
i'll be adding the raised elbow into the mix as well..

Good luck V.

fcdiscus said:

Funny you mention a Lord. I was going to recommend the Lord L6- a long hand,ed but realatively light razor.

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In my opinion. Lord L6/ Merkur Head Type 1822L is a great razor for around $15. But it's not as aggressive as my $10 Weishi 2003M - which I dislike a lot because I got I don't know how many nicks from it. I like them unaggressive.
Renato

I finally got a good shave today..
a DFS and i was not aiming any higher..
elbow higher made all the difference..the cutting edge almost flat with the face...
my set up

de89 with derby blade
cella soap
cold water
boar brush
i palm lathered ,
applied a thin coat and massaged soap in with my fingers..
gave it a min...and then a evened out with brush..
two pass shave with touch up on the chin..very slight razor burn in the chin area ...but that was because i was rushing a bit...lighter touch should take care of it next time..
15 mins start to finish
..great way to start a thursday..

looking forward to my next shave on saturday..it will be with a parker shavette..just to compare

the cold water shave helps as well...face does not feel dry..i'm a convert twice over..once to the de side and agin to the cold water shave side ..

Haven't tried cold water. Still - this is good news. I'll be trying a persona blade soon.

I had to jump over two mental blocks
the first one was that it is bad to do anything other than WTG pass while shaving..this was a hold over from my catridge days...
and the other was that you need hot water to soften the hair and to lather..

the first one is obvious
the second one not so much. in practice i found the soap has no memory of water temperature..lathers exactly the same with hot and cold water...
face neither...the shave was exactly the same as with hot water ...with the added bonus of a happy face..none of that dry feeling i had resigned myself to...

i cut out my whole preshave routine..
step out of the shower...few drops on the soap...wet the brush..and dive right in..

I think i am ready to start shaving everyday now
have to get thru my soap stach..I want to buy MWF but have not even opened my tobac and qed sandal yet...so holding myself back with great difficulty...

Renato1 said:

In my opinion. Lord L6/ Merkur Head Type 1822L is a great razor for around $15. But it's not as aggressive as my $10 Weishi 2003M - which I dislike a lot because I got I don't know how many nicks from it. I like them unaggressive.
Renato

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If you find Weishi aggressive- it may very well be a broken one. Tighten them too much and they break easily. Usually Weishi is about the mildest razor out there. Check to see the doors close evenly when you tighten the blade.