Mind if I ask how it was different than what you were expecting? Was it just the amount of backbone, or was there something more? As you said, I know you're not saying it was sub-par or anything... just curious. For me, it's turning out to be the perfect brush, both my experience with it and your review lining up pretty well (granted, I don't have near the experience with other brushes to fall back on and compare it to)... short loft making for solid backbone, very soft tips (good for my sensitive skin as I face lather), great density. Anyway, just asking...
2 band comparison
- Thread starter ctkelly
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Mind if I ask how it was different than what you were expecting? Was it just the amount of backbone, or was there something more? As you said, I know you're not saying it was sub-par or anything... just curious. For me, it's turning out to be the perfect brush, both my experience with it and your review lining up pretty well (granted, I don't have near the experience with other brushes to fall back on and compare it to)... short loft making for solid backbone, very soft tips (good for my sensitive skin as I face lather), great density. Anyway, just asking...
- Thread starter
- #22
While the xl has good backbone, I was hoping it would have a bit more..or at least have the same as the morris and forndran. So far in this test the m&f is the only scrubber brush. Makes me wonder what a m&f would be like with a 48 or 50mm loft and extra hair...
Wow what a lovely group. The flat Shavemac is an ugly duckling but I bet a very unique experience 
Wow what a lovely group. The flat Shavemac is an ugly duckling but I bet a very unique experience
I thought that initially, but it's growing on me.
Ken
Wow what a lovely group. The flat Shavemac is an ugly duckling but I bet a very unique experience
+1. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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- #26
Wow you guys are really beating up my shavemac. Lol. I really like the looks of it, simply put because it is very different from the others. After I get done romping with the kids (finally hit 72 here in iowa) I'll get my shave on for the day and post another review.
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- #27
Update 4-3-11, Shavemac 24x48 flat top D01 2 band
Well, since some people decided to pick on the poor shavemac and its unique flat top look, I decided to go ahead and give it a shot tonight. I was actually nervous on this one, this was another brush that I had put a lot of interest/faith into and didn't want to suffer the let down like the rooney stubby 1 XL. This brush would live up to all of its hype and glory.
The D01 two band absorbed a massive amount of water. I looked into the brush scuttle in amazement and wondered where all the water had gone...two obvious choices were available here....it either absorbed it, or the kids knocked it over and dumped a bunch of water out...well there was no water on the floor so we'll go with the first option. Heat retention was excellent. It absorbed plenty of product and was willing to let it go when lathering the face.
The tips are soft, but scritch is present. If this knot is anything like the semogue 2010 LE silvertip I'm sure over time that will fade away and result in lovely tips. With the flat top, you get a huge amount of contact between your face and the tips....it makes it seem you are using a much much larger brush. There is great backbone also.....this easily falls into the scrubber brush category. Everything I would have speculated about this brush, proved to be true in the end.
Onto price...I got this during bernds thank you sale. This brush is worth every single cent! For roughly ~160 dollars shipped to my door I got to pick the knot size, loft, handle style, handle color, type of hair used, knot shape, and placement of the logo. There is a lot of value in this brush and a lot of options.
Here is a quick shot after the initial pass. I had to go get my camera in the other room and figured I'd just photograph it there...course I dropped a rather large amount of lather right on the floor while moving from room to room. lol
Well, since some people decided to pick on the poor shavemac and its unique flat top look, I decided to go ahead and give it a shot tonight. I was actually nervous on this one, this was another brush that I had put a lot of interest/faith into and didn't want to suffer the let down like the rooney stubby 1 XL. This brush would live up to all of its hype and glory.
The D01 two band absorbed a massive amount of water. I looked into the brush scuttle in amazement and wondered where all the water had gone...two obvious choices were available here....it either absorbed it, or the kids knocked it over and dumped a bunch of water out...well there was no water on the floor so we'll go with the first option. Heat retention was excellent. It absorbed plenty of product and was willing to let it go when lathering the face.
The tips are soft, but scritch is present. If this knot is anything like the semogue 2010 LE silvertip I'm sure over time that will fade away and result in lovely tips. With the flat top, you get a huge amount of contact between your face and the tips....it makes it seem you are using a much much larger brush. There is great backbone also.....this easily falls into the scrubber brush category. Everything I would have speculated about this brush, proved to be true in the end.
Onto price...I got this during bernds thank you sale. This brush is worth every single cent! For roughly ~160 dollars shipped to my door I got to pick the knot size, loft, handle style, handle color, type of hair used, knot shape, and placement of the logo. There is a lot of value in this brush and a lot of options.
Here is a quick shot after the initial pass. I had to go get my camera in the other room and figured I'd just photograph it there...course I dropped a rather large amount of lather right on the floor while moving from room to room. lol
M&F Blonde and Shavemac 2band D01 both have hair with a lot of backbone (as in the individual hairs are springy, so the brush gets as much backbone with less density as other hairs might). The Rooney Heritage, Simpson two band and TGN all have hair with slightly less backbone, with the Heritage standing out because it is the softest tipped of the three.
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- #29
Right now my TGN has the advantage over the rooney in soft tips....the rooney I have exhibits a bit of scritch (small amount) where as the TGN knot is just completely soft. That may change over time with some usage, but the rooney I bought was the only used brush in the test so it should have a head start in the break in. The vie long that I need to review today is the softest brush in the entire round up but I'm gonna guess its probably the worst two band brush in this test with regards to density and backbone. Im hoping with more usage the rooney softens up, but I did buy this brush used so it should have a small head start in that area.
The shavemac I have is well packed and has a ton of backbone....if I can get a MF with extra hair to step up the backbone a little more I'll order one from lee asap. Otherwise I may be purchasing another shavemac when this is all said and done.
The shavemac I have is well packed and has a ton of backbone....if I can get a MF with extra hair to step up the backbone a little more I'll order one from lee asap. Otherwise I may be purchasing another shavemac when this is all said and done.
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- Thread starter
- #30
Update 4-4-11 Simpson Chubby 1
Well this is the ringer from Dr Phil of bullgooseshaving. Going into this test I didnt have any great expectations of it....its well regarded and you just dont see too many complaints about the brush so I wasn't expecting any big surprises.
This particular brush absorbed an average amount of water, had average heat retention...but absorbed a good amount of product. I used P.160 soft soap/hard cream for the test and this brush tore into very quickly. Making lather for the bowl and loading the brush up for the initial pass was done in very short time, the shortest of any of the brushes. It did lose a single hair, no big deal.
This brush has excellent density, great backbone and on this particular brush the tips were good. A small amount of scritch, but on the soft side of things. With many users posting that simpsons need a little time to break the tips in I was somewhat surprised by how nice these felt initially. I'm actually interested in just how much softer it will get with some time.
I did take a quick snapshot of the lather ball...but unfortunately the pictures didnt turn out the way I wanted them too....looked like a giant white ball on top of a ivory handle. Next time around I'll setup my light box for some better pictures.
Price was in the ~160 ballpark thanks to a coupon Phil has. It arrived in very short time as usual, part of that super secret deal Phil has worked out with the post office. The handle is a classic and often imitated along with various degrees of wordplay on the name "chubby". I found this 23mm knot beauty to be the right balance of size for me and is a much much better choice than the chubby 2 that I initially bought. I really dont have much to say about this brush...it lived up to its hype and I got a really nice specimen. Another brush thats worth every cent!
Well this is the ringer from Dr Phil of bullgooseshaving. Going into this test I didnt have any great expectations of it....its well regarded and you just dont see too many complaints about the brush so I wasn't expecting any big surprises.
This particular brush absorbed an average amount of water, had average heat retention...but absorbed a good amount of product. I used P.160 soft soap/hard cream for the test and this brush tore into very quickly. Making lather for the bowl and loading the brush up for the initial pass was done in very short time, the shortest of any of the brushes. It did lose a single hair, no big deal.
This brush has excellent density, great backbone and on this particular brush the tips were good. A small amount of scritch, but on the soft side of things. With many users posting that simpsons need a little time to break the tips in I was somewhat surprised by how nice these felt initially. I'm actually interested in just how much softer it will get with some time.
I did take a quick snapshot of the lather ball...but unfortunately the pictures didnt turn out the way I wanted them too....looked like a giant white ball on top of a ivory handle. Next time around I'll setup my light box for some better pictures.
Price was in the ~160 ballpark thanks to a coupon Phil has. It arrived in very short time as usual, part of that super secret deal Phil has worked out with the post office. The handle is a classic and often imitated along with various degrees of wordplay on the name "chubby". I found this 23mm knot beauty to be the right balance of size for me and is a much much better choice than the chubby 2 that I initially bought. I really dont have much to say about this brush...it lived up to its hype and I got a really nice specimen. Another brush thats worth every cent!
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- #32
Update 4-5-11 Vie Long 2 band
Well, I saved what I thought was going to be the worst 2 band brush for last. The vie long has the worst density out of the brushes, worst back bone, but sported super soft tips when they were dry...when wet, it was a whole other story.
This brush absorbed lots of water...which can be a pain if you have to compensate while mixing up your lather, but in this case a couple flicks released a good portion of it where as some of the other brushes just wouldnt let go. Immediately I noticed the infamous vie long stink, which has to be from the epoxy they use as it is completely synthetic in smell to me. For this brush, I wouldnt recommend anything but creams with it....and I decided to give my tube of goodrej a try tonight. This brush absorbed an amazing amount of lather and it gave it up readily....I did not have to reload the brush after a three pass shave and it had plenty still when washed out. Heat retention was excellent. But the one thing I thought it really had going for it was the soft tips....until they got wet and put to use. The tips had some scritch to them and werent overly soft. I'd rate the TGN 2 band finest as the softest tipped brush in the competition thus far.
Backbone is utterly lacking, its easily a floppy brush. In fact it seems odd to make a 2 band brush this way as one of the main advantages to a 2 band were superior backbone in most cases.
Price wise the brush was ~70 and some change from bullgooseshaving. It comes with a fancy orange box, acrylic brush stand, etc...packaging wise these guys go all out. The handle is some beautifully grained olivewood. But unfortunately, the performance of the brush says this is a poor choice. Though lacking in density, I'm not sure if even a major increase in hairs stuffed into the 23mm knot would result in typical 2 band backbone, the hair in this knot just seems really lacking.
At 70 dollars your better choice is the new forest tubby 1. For a little more if you wish to have a custom handled TGN knot made Rudy Vey is the man to see and would also be a better choice than the Vie Long.
Well, I saved what I thought was going to be the worst 2 band brush for last. The vie long has the worst density out of the brushes, worst back bone, but sported super soft tips when they were dry...when wet, it was a whole other story.
This brush absorbed lots of water...which can be a pain if you have to compensate while mixing up your lather, but in this case a couple flicks released a good portion of it where as some of the other brushes just wouldnt let go. Immediately I noticed the infamous vie long stink, which has to be from the epoxy they use as it is completely synthetic in smell to me. For this brush, I wouldnt recommend anything but creams with it....and I decided to give my tube of goodrej a try tonight. This brush absorbed an amazing amount of lather and it gave it up readily....I did not have to reload the brush after a three pass shave and it had plenty still when washed out. Heat retention was excellent. But the one thing I thought it really had going for it was the soft tips....until they got wet and put to use. The tips had some scritch to them and werent overly soft. I'd rate the TGN 2 band finest as the softest tipped brush in the competition thus far.
Backbone is utterly lacking, its easily a floppy brush. In fact it seems odd to make a 2 band brush this way as one of the main advantages to a 2 band were superior backbone in most cases.
Price wise the brush was ~70 and some change from bullgooseshaving. It comes with a fancy orange box, acrylic brush stand, etc...packaging wise these guys go all out. The handle is some beautifully grained olivewood. But unfortunately, the performance of the brush says this is a poor choice. Though lacking in density, I'm not sure if even a major increase in hairs stuffed into the 23mm knot would result in typical 2 band backbone, the hair in this knot just seems really lacking.
At 70 dollars your better choice is the new forest tubby 1. For a little more if you wish to have a custom handled TGN knot made Rudy Vey is the man to see and would also be a better choice than the Vie Long.
You have another brush or I cannot explain myself your post. My vielong 16726 is on of the better brushes for soaps and facelathering that I know. The bristles are a bit more thick and stiffer, because it's european badger (meles meles). But...floppy? , please take the brush in bloom and compare it to a TGN or rooney in the same condition....
This brush is one of the better perfomers in facelathering, if you can get enough lather from this brush....something is mistaken.... Please try to drain the brush very well, this brush is less dense than the british brushes, but the bristles are more rigid and makes emulsion of the soap very fast, it's easy to have flabby lather if you keep an excess of water in the brush.
About the Plisson comparison, the hair of the VieLong 16726 is very simmilar to the Plisson Haute Montagne, but the tips are a bit darker and the VL is 2 band (Plisson may be 3 band, as my #14). The difference is the shape of the knot, more round in the VL.
BTW thanks a lot for the comparison, the pics and the posts
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- #34
I've quite a bit of time with the rooney 1XL recently to see if the tips would soften up and get rid of that little bit of scritch it had....it did. With that said, the rooney will walk all over the Vie Long 2 band when compared head to head in performance. Harvitz81 has echoed similar thoughts about lacking in density and backbone, and Phil from bullgooseshaving who sold the brush also advised it was lacking both when compared to others so I dont think its necessarily a case of a bad brush.
I was very impressed with the flow through of the brush....it absorbs water and product well and releases it well, retains heat well....but it lacks in the backbone department, density and I dont find the tips all that soft when wet. In all reality, my well used 3 band super TGN knot is better than this brush.
I should also note, when I say floppy...I mean within the scope of this 2 band comparison. When compared to the Vie Long white badger, NF HMB, or maybe even something like the foppy kent brushes it has more backbone than those. It just doesn't have enough to fit in with the 2 band crowd that I am currently testing. If vie would stuff the knot denser it would probably be a real contender.
I was very impressed with the flow through of the brush....it absorbs water and product well and releases it well, retains heat well....but it lacks in the backbone department, density and I dont find the tips all that soft when wet. In all reality, my well used 3 band super TGN knot is better than this brush.
I should also note, when I say floppy...I mean within the scope of this 2 band comparison. When compared to the Vie Long white badger, NF HMB, or maybe even something like the foppy kent brushes it has more backbone than those. It just doesn't have enough to fit in with the 2 band crowd that I am currently testing. If vie would stuff the knot denser it would probably be a real contender.
My TGN super 3 band shed hairs (because of that I am not very fan of this brushes), more than 5 per shave, and it is far from the 16726 in perfomance. My T&H wellington 3 band (rooney 1/1 rebranded) is the floppier brush that I know....For me the VL has more backbone then this brushes, but maybe I use the brushes in a way different from yours. 
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- #36
My TGN super 3 band shed hairs (because of that I am not very fan of this brushes), more than 5 per shave, and it is far from the 16726 in perfomance. My T&H wellington 3 band (rooney 1/1 rebranded) is the floppier brush that I know....For me the VL has more backbone then this brushes, but maybe I use the brushes in a way different from yours.
My TGN 3 band super has been great, shed a few hairs initially but has settled down nicely. I know what you mean about shedding being aggravating.....the new forest tubby 1 I'm testing sheds quite a few hairs each time I've used it. I'm hoping that one settles down soon before all its hair is gone.
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- #37
Update 5-2-11
Well I've spent some more time with a few of the brushes and thought I'd chime in with some thoughts and comments. I use a variety of "creams" which I thought I'd list a few so others could get an idea of what I'm putting these brushes threw. Acca Kappa 1869 tub, QCS Colliers Row, Proraso tube, Top Secret, P.160, and a couple others. I do have one hard soap I use, Klar Raiserwasser soap.
I immediately set out for a week+ with the rooney stubby 1XL Mainly because of how many people praised of the uber soft tips...yet I found them to be ok with a bit of scritch to them. I'm pleased to say the scritch has all but faded away now, another week or so and I'd say it would be right in line with everyone else's opinion. Other than that, nothing else has really changed for me.....good backbone, great density. Works well with everything I've thrown at it.
Next up was the Shavemac flat top. Huge amounts of backbone, scritch at the tips....flat top is an experience in its own to talk about. One observation though is with a flat top I seem to be mashing the brush more into my face....I now concentrate harder on making sure I'm just using the tips (with all brushes, but mainly it was a problem with a flat top). Brush absorbs a ton of water which can be problematic sometimes....giving it a flick or two doesn't always release all of the water either. Works good with creams, soaps are okay as long as its a larger puck (klar rasierwasser is difficult because of the small size). 24mm flat top vs a small puck makes things a bit interesting when loading the brush.
Last week I spent some time with the Semogue two band brush. I've actually come to like this brush quite well. The funk in this brush is probably the strongest outside of the Vie Long, but we all know that will go away with time. The brush has excellent flow through; absorbs/release water and product very nicely. Good decent backbone on the brush and the tips are breaking in nicely. Again an excellent performer with all types of product thrown at it.
A Change in the lineup, M&F replacement
Which brings me today......maybe some of you noticed I sold the M&F 2 band in the BST recently. It funded the designated hitter, another M&F. I had contacted Lee Sabini about possibly over stuffing a 24mm two band....OR, doing a 25mm x 48mm loft. Lee had some reservations about doing a simple over stuff, flow through may have been one of the primary concerns. So after a couple weeks he had created a 25x48mm brush with a "bit more" hair packed in.
Now, I know brushes can vary from brush to brush....but this brush couldn't be more different than the last M&F I had. Density is better, backbone is better....and the tips are incredibly soft with the faintest hint of scritch. I mean this is on level with the rooney stubby I have for softness. I've only used this brush once, tonight with proraso cream. Was utterly amazing. One thing though, it is a water hog much like the shavemac and once again...a flick or two of the brush does not release all the water. Overall though, I am really really digging this brush. Price came in at 75 GBP.
Well I've spent some more time with a few of the brushes and thought I'd chime in with some thoughts and comments. I use a variety of "creams" which I thought I'd list a few so others could get an idea of what I'm putting these brushes threw. Acca Kappa 1869 tub, QCS Colliers Row, Proraso tube, Top Secret, P.160, and a couple others. I do have one hard soap I use, Klar Raiserwasser soap.
I immediately set out for a week+ with the rooney stubby 1XL Mainly because of how many people praised of the uber soft tips...yet I found them to be ok with a bit of scritch to them. I'm pleased to say the scritch has all but faded away now, another week or so and I'd say it would be right in line with everyone else's opinion. Other than that, nothing else has really changed for me.....good backbone, great density. Works well with everything I've thrown at it.
Next up was the Shavemac flat top. Huge amounts of backbone, scritch at the tips....flat top is an experience in its own to talk about. One observation though is with a flat top I seem to be mashing the brush more into my face....I now concentrate harder on making sure I'm just using the tips (with all brushes, but mainly it was a problem with a flat top). Brush absorbs a ton of water which can be problematic sometimes....giving it a flick or two doesn't always release all of the water either. Works good with creams, soaps are okay as long as its a larger puck (klar rasierwasser is difficult because of the small size). 24mm flat top vs a small puck makes things a bit interesting when loading the brush.
Last week I spent some time with the Semogue two band brush. I've actually come to like this brush quite well. The funk in this brush is probably the strongest outside of the Vie Long, but we all know that will go away with time. The brush has excellent flow through; absorbs/release water and product very nicely. Good decent backbone on the brush and the tips are breaking in nicely. Again an excellent performer with all types of product thrown at it.
A Change in the lineup, M&F replacement
Which brings me today......maybe some of you noticed I sold the M&F 2 band in the BST recently. It funded the designated hitter, another M&F. I had contacted Lee Sabini about possibly over stuffing a 24mm two band....OR, doing a 25mm x 48mm loft. Lee had some reservations about doing a simple over stuff, flow through may have been one of the primary concerns. So after a couple weeks he had created a 25x48mm brush with a "bit more" hair packed in.
Now, I know brushes can vary from brush to brush....but this brush couldn't be more different than the last M&F I had. Density is better, backbone is better....and the tips are incredibly soft with the faintest hint of scritch. I mean this is on level with the rooney stubby I have for softness. I've only used this brush once, tonight with proraso cream. Was utterly amazing. One thing though, it is a water hog much like the shavemac and once again...a flick or two of the brush does not release all the water. Overall though, I am really really digging this brush. Price came in at 75 GBP.
It's a great journal you're keeping, and I'm glad that you post these thoughts and upgrades for us to read along!!
Thanks,
Morten
Thanks,
Morten
I haven't seen this thread before. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about those brushes. My question is that how dense is your new M&F brush now and could you compare it with the other brushes that you have? Now, I am thinking a brush with over stuffed 22-23mm with 46-48mm loft.
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- #40
I'll post some pictures tonight of the new brush. It's not as dense as the rooney,shavemac,or Simpson but above the semogue, new forest, tgn, vie long. With this type of hair I don't think I would want it to be stuffed anymore. It has great backbone, soft tips, and decent flow.
Good shot of the knot, good density. Handle on this one is a bit larger than the 24mm version I had, fits nicely without being oversized. Starting to really like the oddball 25mm knot size that some companies produce.
Good shot of the knot, good density. Handle on this one is a bit larger than the 24mm version I had, fits nicely without being oversized. Starting to really like the oddball 25mm knot size that some companies produce.
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