B&B group buy for Japanese kitchen knives**Update post 307**

A Western style handle upgrade is available - $100 (labor & materials included) -A B&B exclusive!

Left handed users... not to fear. All of these knives have handles that are ambidextrous. The sides of the knife are ground evenly at 50/50. However, the edges are slightly asymmetrical. What does that mean? The edges might be ground 70/30 for a right handed user, but it will be very easy work for Dave to switch that to a bias for left handed users. Other than that, there should be no problems for leftys. There are no D-shaped handles and no single bevel knives in this buy.



Send an e-mail to [email protected] with your choice(s) Jon will send an invoice via paypal or you may pay with a credit card.


The knives will be ordered from the manufacturer in Japan and shipped directly to Dave for him to perform his magic.

The freshly sharpened and tuned knives will then be shipped from Dave's workshop to you.

Lead time - Varies from knife to knife, please see the list of knives HERE for approximate delivery times.



Time frame-

The buy will be open to September 28th

My name is Jon. My wife Sara and I run Japanese Knife Imports. Before starting Japanese Knife Imports, i spent the past 7 or so years as a professional chef. During that time, I worked abroad in both Japan and Italy. While in Japan, i learned about how to use and care for Japanese knives and i grew to love them. Since then, i have used Japanese knifes almost exclusively in my cooking. I have spent countless hours testing different knives and different sharpening stones. After getting married earlier this year, I decided to stop cooking and start this knife business. We deal directly with the makers for all of the knives we carry. This helps us get the highest quality products and also give us access to hard to find items.

Jim, Dave, and I have been working on this group buy project in the background for a little while now. After a few discussions, we decided on a number of shapes and makes of knives we thought would be a good fit for you guys here at B&B. Here's what we've got for you:

As Jim said before, all of these prices include sharpening and tuning by Dave Martel (who i often recommend to customers because i truly believe he does great work) as well as US domestic shipping. If you have any questions, we are here and ready to answer them. Thanks.

-Jon

Stainless Western Handled (Ikkaku):
120 Petty-$75
150 Petty- $80
170 Santoku- $102
210 Gyuto- $110
240 Gyuto- $120
270 Gyuto- $130







These stainless western handled knives are great beginner knives. At 58 hrc (rockwell hardness) they are significantly harder than their German counterparts. However, they aren't so hard that sharpening is difficult. At 58, they can take a decent bit of abuse and wont chip all over the place. I initially bought these knives for professional cooks who need something that can stand up to the rigors of a professional kitchen. Delivery time on these knives will be about 1.5-2 months including sharpening and tuning.

Carbon Western handled (Kanemasa)-
120 Petty- $69.40
150 Petty- $71.40
180 Santoku- $91
210 Gyuto- $91
240 Gyuto- $104
270 Gyuto- $113.40
270 Sujihiki- $113.40
300 Sujihiki- $124.20





Kanemasa knives are knows as great values in Japanese knives. They clock in at 60-62 hrc, which puts them on par with many other carbon Japanese knives. Being carbon, they require a little extra care when using. They will need to be wiped clean and dry after use and should never be left dirty or wet. However, what you gain from having a carbon blade is this- they sharpen much easier than stainless, they get sharper than stainless, the represent a better value, and they are more durable. Don't let carbon scare you... its really not that bad to take care of . Delivery time on these knives will be about 1.5-2 months including sharpening and tuning.

Stainless Wa handled (Yoshihiro) all with octagon handle and saya-
150mm Wa-Petty-$115
210mm Wa-Gytuo-$155
240mm Wa-Gyuto-$165
270mm Wa-Gyuto-$175
270mm Wa-Sujihiki-$160







These Stainless Yoshihiro knives come with wa-handles. What does that mean? They have a rat tail tang that sits inside the long wood handle (in this case octagon shaped) as opposed to the western handle with has a tang with scales (wood or otherwise). Many people worry about the strength of these handles because they have heard that they only way to go is triple riveted full tang. However, thats just not true. For a long time i used knives with wa-handles in professional kitchens and never had any problems with it (and i know a number of other people with similar experiences). In fact, i find the handles are more comfortable than the western handles, and more importantly, significantly lighter. Overall wa-handled knives tend to be lighter, which translates into less fatigue while using them. These knives clock in at 60 hrc, making them a little harder than the Ikkaku western handled stainless knives. This means greater ability to take a more acute edge and better edge holding. Again, they aren't so hard that they are brittle. Also, these knives are relatively thin which translates into less wedging when cutting hard foods. All of these wa-handled knives come with ho wood octagon shaped handles and matching sayas (wooden sheaths to protect and store the knife). Delivery time on these knives will be about 2-2.5 months including sharpening and tuning.

Carbon Wa-Handled (Yoshihiro) with octagon handle and saya-
120mm Wa-Petty- $130
150mm Wa-Petty- $140
210mm Wa-Gyuto- $175
240mm Wa-Gyuto- $195
270mm Wa-Gyuto- $215
270mm Wa-Sujihiki- $210
300mm Wa-Sujihiki- $225

These carbon wa-handled knives by Yoshihiro are similar in all ways to the stainless version except that they are carbon steel at 61-62 hrc. They also come with ho wood octagon shaped handles and matching sayas. Like all carbon steels they should be wiped clean and dried after use and should never be left dirty or wet. Delivery time on these knives will be about 2-2.5 months including sharpening and tuning.





Special SKD Nakiri with octagon handle and saya-
165mm Nakiri- $120





This Nakiri is an exclusive to this B&B group buy. SKD steel is a stainless tool steel that is extremely hard, durable, and tough. The SKD steel forms the core of this knife. It is clad by softer stainless steel to provide a little protection to the core and flexibility to the knife overall. Nakiri are vegetable knives. They come with nearly flat edges and are great for dicing, julienne-ing, or mincing vegetables and herbs. This knife will come with an octagon ho wood handle and matching saya. Delivery time on these knives will be about 2-2.5 months including sharpening and tuning.

Hi, my name is Dave Martell, I'm the owner of JapaneseKnifeSharpening.com (more formally known as D&R Sharpening Solutions) which is a knife sharpening service located in Fleetwood, PA.

At one time we spent our days traveling from restaurant to salon and so on but in the last couple of years we've made an unplanned move into online sales and mail order sharpening. What was once a hobby, playing with (sharpening by hand) Japanese knives has blossomed into a full time enterprise that has forced us off the road and into a shop. This is a good thing.

Yes, I'm a 100% lost cause knifenut. I live it - eat it - breath it - all day everyday. If I didn't get to play with everyone else's knives everyday I'd likely be in the poor house for having bought way too many (if there is such a thing) knives myself. Seriously though, I'm into knives much like a lot of you are into shaving and all the cool gear that goes along with this.

Oh and speaking of which, I'm a straight razor guy myself although only new to honing and shaving for a little over a year now. I've also got a tiny bit of DE experience too but my love is for collecting and using those old vintage Sheffield meat choppers. Maybe they remind me of knives?

Anyway, back on track...

JapaneseKnifeSharpening.com was born to answer the question, "Where can we get our specialized Japanese knives sharpened"?

Too many people have purchased Japanese knives and the found themselves in front of their local sharpener watching the sparks fly since most every local sharpener has never heard of, let alone seen, these knives. It's not that they're bad sharpeners necessarily, it's just that they have no clue what they are and how to deal with them. So we decided to move forward with what we've learned from practicing on them (for years at night after work) and from the online research we've done and make a go of offering a online mail order program specifically designed for Japanese knives. Our goal is to meet the demanding expectations of the Japanese knife owner by providing high performance edges at the most extreme level possible.

Now to what I'm doing here...

I was approached by Jim to participate in this group buy mostly (I believe) to help provide a smooth transition for the first time Japanese knife owner specifically. The reason for this is that it's a pretty well known fact that even though Japanese knives are the supreme knives of the kitchen cutlery world (and rightfully so for good reason) they're also well known for not getting high marks for fit 'n finish issues (like sharp spines) as well as they simply don't pull nearly the full potential out of the factory edges. In some cases these knives are very sharp while others are almost dull but being that they have great potential it's always a good idea to apply a new edge and make the knife soar. Many people prefer to do this themselves but many don't or simply can't. In Japan they sell knives from stores where the in-store sharpener would apply this edge for you at your request but in the west what do we do? Well, in this case at least we're offering to include this sharpening service into the price of the knife and supply you with the best right out of the box. Also, we'll smooth over rough tangs, etc and make sure the knives are good to go. That's our part in this group buy.

Additionally we have upgrade options for replacement handles if you have interest. We're supplying this service at a reduced cost for the first time to B&B members during this group buy. I'll have more to say on this in another post.

I'm very honored and extremely happy to be part of this group buy. If there's any questions that anyone has that you feel I can answer please feel free to ask away. I'll be checking in and monitoring the progress as we roll along.

Thanks for your time,
Dave Martell

Like the owner of a sports car, the Japanese knife owner often finds himself (or herself) wanting to make performance or accessory upgrades. One of the more popular upgrade to make is to replace the stock factory handle with an exotic hardwood with smooth lines and sleek contours. (Like the racing car analogies?)

The reasons for upgrading the handle is to get a better interaction with the knife through tactile feedback, to get rid of the ugly(ish) black factory scales, to get better fit 'n finish, and to simply make the knife look better.

The most common replacement/upgrade is to the wa-handle style. Wa handles are basically (for the most part) inexpensive and easily replaceable soft wood handles that are designed to be able to be knock off and a new handle knocked on as they wear. It's a function over form part of a knife. The problem is that most people don't care for the feel of the cheaper versions so thus the replacement handle upgrade is born.

Here you can see the cross section illustration of a tang inserted into a wa handle...


There are two main shapes we see in wa handles...
1. D-shaped


2. Octagonal


We work with a supplier of custom high end wa-handles. This maker is a part time handle Meister who turns out some truly stunning work. He builds a custom handle with materials the customer requests and using his experience matches the size and shape of the handle to the knife at hand. He has a remarkable talent for this task. We've been installing his work for over three years now and have no plans on stopping anytime in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately due to the maker's time constraints and current workload we won't be able to include his handles as an upgrade option within this group buy. This information is here for explanation purposes only.

An example of a standard ho wood wa handle...


An example of a custom wa handle upgrade...



The other handle type is simply termed "western". These are handles that look pretty much just like every German knife we've ever seen. Black wood scales with rivets.

Here you can see the cross section illustration of western handle construction...


I offer western handle upgrades using all sorts of exotic woods selected by the customer. I haven't been doing this work for years but I've done a ton in recent history and I'm really beginning to get the hang of it.

Here's a stock western handle...


Here's a custom western re-handle upgrade I did (same knife)...





We're bringing the choice to you as an option. You don't need to upgrade the handle on any of these knives, the stock version will serve you fine, however should you be inclined to want to play around the option is there and it's coming to you at a reduced cost just for this B&B Group buy.

Dave

Jim, Jon, Sara and Dave this is awesome! Great work! All I can say is....

To break the ice- I am in for a Ikkaku 240mm for a gift for my nephew who is showing an interest in cooking.

I have to say its been a great pleasure working with these Gents pulling this buy together.

Jim said:

To break the ice- I am in for a Ikkaku 240mm for a gift for my nephew who is showing an interest in cooking.

I have to say its been a great pleasure working with these Gents pulling this buy together.

Click to expand...

The pleasure is ours Jim!


PS - Need another nephew?

lol... great gift. I've got you on the list.

Also, if you guys have any questions about these knives, or japanese knives in general, please dont be shy. This is not only a venue for you to get some cool stuff at a good price, but also a chance for you to learn and ask tons of questions.

Excuse me while I go change my pants

Lead time - Varies from knife to knife, please see the list of knives HERE for approximate delivery times.

Click to expand...

this link does not work, is it cause the information was moved here?

on to a knife question.

Jim why did you choice that specific knife for a new cook? I do not do any professional cooking but i do enjoy my own personal cooking. I currently have these, http://www.swissknifeshop.com/r-h-forschner-7-piece-cutlery-roll
for comparison. I would be interested in this assuming I can get some reccomendation on a blade

Well, I'm definitely going to have to be in on this. I don't eat out at all, so I pretty much cook everything. I use right now a 120mm Food network knife (I know, I know) every single day and I have a bigger (not sure of the size) Santoku knife I use for meat.

Definitely in for a 120mm one, not sure which model yet though and possibly a Santoku (hey, I can lay off the shave gear for awhile right?).

In terms of maintenance sharpening, I'm learning to sharpen my own straights so would something like a belgian coticule work for these?

jstutman said:

this link does not work, is it cause the information was moved here?

on to a knife question.

Jim why did you choice that specific knife for a new cook? I do not do any professional cooking but i do enjoy my own personal cooking. I currently have these, http://www.swissknifeshop.com/r-h-forschner-7-piece-cutlery-roll
for comparison. I would be interested in this assuming I can get some reccomendation on a blade

Click to expand...

Sorry for the mixup in the lead time... each knives lead time is listed at the end of that knife's description.

On to comparisons, the biggest differences will be steel and shape. Forschners are good knives... in fact i used them when i was first cooking. They are better than whustof and henkels in my experience (and half the price). The Japanese knives, or in this case the Ikkaku chefs knives (since that seems to be the comparison you're looking for) have much better steel than the forschners. This means they will be able to take a sharper edge and hold it longer... and it will be a noticeable difference. One benifit many users coming from Henkels and Whustof would see that you will not is the thin-ness of the Japanese blades. The forschners are already thin (which is part of what makes them better than their more expensive western counterparts). Now, on to the shape. The Japanese chef's knives (read: gyutos) have significantly less belly, or curve of the cutting edge. This allows for more edge contact with your board at any given time. Also, this shape makes the knife much better suited to some very useful cutting techniques, like the thrusting cut (which i briefly described in my talk about what a Nakiri is), the pushing cut, and the pulling cut. These are the cutting techniques i use most often and i find them to be way more efficient than the rock and chop methods taught at most culinary schools.


Anyways, for most home cooks i usually recommend a 240mm gyuto. Western handled or wa-handled is up to what you think you would feel comfortable with. Wa-handled knives are lighter and usually feel more nimble. Western handled knives are more similar to what you might be used to from using western chef's knives. They are heavier than the wa-handled knives, but usually lighter than german or french chefs' knives.

Back to blade size for a minute, just so it makes a little more sense:
210mm= about 8 in
240mm= about 9.5 in
270mm= about 10.5 in

Western handled Japanese knives are measured from the knife's heel to the tip. Wa-handled knives are measured from the handle to the tip. Therefore, wa-handled knives tend to run a little shorter in functional blade length.

Usually when people use an 8in western chefs knife, i recommend a 240mm gyuto. The small size up is generally not noticeable with the increased nimbleness and lighter weight. If you use a 6in chefs knife, 210mm might be a better fit for you. If you use a 10in chefs knife, 270mm is the way to go.

Harvitz81 said:

Well, I'm definitely going to have to be in on this. I don't eat out at all, so I pretty much cook everything. I use right now a 120mm Food network knife (I know, I know) every single day and I have a bigger (not sure of the size) Santoku knife I use for meat.

Definitely in for a 120mm one, not sure which model yet though and possibly a Santoku (hey, I can lay off the shave gear for awhile right?).

In terms of maintenance sharpening, I'm learning to sharpen my own straights so would something like a belgian coticule work for these?

Click to expand...

The 120mm would be a petty- think of it as a long paring knife. They may feel a bit awkward at first, but they're a very handy knife.

If you're only getting one knife, or even if you're only starting with one, I'd suggest a gyuto. It's really the most useful of all. Keep in mind that these will be light and nimble blades, so don't be afraid to get a big one. A 240mm is generally regarded as a standard size.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to deliver a pair of pants to Mark, and I could use a change myself.

Harvitz81 said:

In terms of maintenance sharpening, I'm learning to sharpen my own straights so would something like a belgian coticule work for these?

Click to expand...

Belgian coticules, arkansas stones, and india stones all work just fine. The best option is japanese water stones (either synthetic or natural... though synthetic are far easier to use). You will find that the belgian coticules work a little slow on the Japanese knives, but it shouldnt be a big problem.

Like with all sharpening, the biggest thing is angle consistency, followed closely by properly removing the burr and wire edge.

DaveMartell said:

PS - Need another nephew?

Click to expand...

No joke!

Looks great, now I have to decide which one I want. Decisions decisions.

JBroida said:

Belgian coticules, arkansas stones, and india stones all work just fine. The best option is japanese water stones (either synthetic or natural... though synthetic are far easier to use). You will find that the belgian coticules work a little slow on the Japanese knives, but it shouldnt be a big problem.

Like with all sharpening, the biggest thing is angle consistency, followed closely by properly removing the burr and wire edge.

Click to expand...

Most coticules are pretty small- the standard sized, roughly 8x3 water stones are perfect for knives.

ouch said:

Most coticules are pretty small- the standard sized, roughly 8x3 water stones are perfect for knives.

Click to expand...

That is also true... i hadn't thought of that

Now if you have a really big coticule................

Knives also require stones from the coarser end of the spectrum. Honemeisters (hate that word) may use a DMT D8C to lap their stones, but wouldn't touch their blade to it, whereas knives all eventually need some work on an arato.

In terms of sharpening, Japanese knives are no different than any other knife, except for the angles and the whole single vs double-sided edge think.

As a relative neophyte when it comes to Japanese knives, I support Ouch's suggestion that if you're getting one knife, get a gyuto and if you're getting a second one, get a petty - then you can branch out from there.

To the fine gents who put this together, what about some information for the lefties out there - are the knives with the single bevel going to be available for lefties, which knives are single vs. double edges, etc.

Also, the D-shaped handle is typically set for right-handers and if you are a left and want that style of handle, you're going to want to specify that its for a left-handed user.

Thanks for putting this together gents!

Oh, any limits on quantities?