Interesting about the Livis. I've never had a razor do this before or I would have radiused the edges out of general caution. Did that Livi I bought from you do this to you as well? I haven't had a problem with it so did you radius the corners of the spine while you had it?
New straight razor manufacturer in the US
- Thread starter leighton
- Start date
Minor nits with the razor.
There are two areas where I think the lines of the razor are awkward looking. This is really only a cosmetic issue, but it makes the Hart look a bit underdesigned. One is the tail, which needs to have about another 30% ground out of the inside of the curve. The other is the tip which has a kind of half-teardrop shape that just looks odd - at the spine it looks like a square point, in the middle a shallow round point, and at the edge it resembles a spike. Again neither of these are functional issues, and maybe everybody else will love them, but to me that tail looks ungainly and the tip is just a puzzler.
Both are pretty quick fixes with some sandpaper (tip) and a dremel (tail) though.
There are two areas where I think the lines of the razor are awkward looking. This is really only a cosmetic issue, but it makes the Hart look a bit underdesigned. One is the tail, which needs to have about another 30% ground out of the inside of the curve. The other is the tip which has a kind of half-teardrop shape that just looks odd - at the spine it looks like a square point, in the middle a shallow round point, and at the edge it resembles a spike. Again neither of these are functional issues, and maybe everybody else will love them, but to me that tail looks ungainly and the tip is just a puzzler.
Both are pretty quick fixes with some sandpaper (tip) and a dremel (tail) though.
How so?
Ok, now I am officially scared off from the Hart. Strop eating is a reason not to be an early adopter. They will probably figure it out and fix it.
I would be so upset to have that strop trashed. It makes my stomach literally turn. I would be so happy to own that strop in the first instance!
Thanks for taking one for the team.
I would be so upset to have that strop trashed. It makes my stomach literally turn. I would be so happy to own that strop in the first instance!
Thanks for taking one for the team.
Most of the Livi's I have are checkered on the spine but they arent necessarily smooth. If im not exctremely careful on the turn, it just eats into the strops.
No..the one I sold you wasnt one of the problem Livis.
No..the one I sold you wasnt one of the problem Livis.
It's easy to fix though, only a minute or two with a sheet of 600 grit wet/dry. I'm mad about the strop, but if I wanted a Hart and knew about the sharp corners ahead of time that wouldn't stop me, I'd just make sure to radius the corners before I used it.
It's also possible that this wouldn't have happened had I used a latigo or cowhide strop. The Kanoyama cordovan leather is very soft and supple and unfortunately more cuttable.
I won't quote all your posts about receiving, contemplating, and shaving with the razor, since they are very long.
... but since they are also very insightful, I'm hoping that they (and some good photos) will end up in a review one of these days ... after, of course, your strop-loving blood has ceased to boil and you get a full experience with this razor on multiple shaves and a honing or two.
Thanks for clarifying that it can be fixed easily.
<The Kanoyama cordovan leather is very soft and supple . . . .>
So I understand. A real object of desire in part because of just that!
I think the strop will be ok after all. I took some sandpaper and sanded down the gouges, finishing up with 1000 grit, then buffed it carefully. It seems ok, it's still pretty smooth and not terribly sueded in the affected area.
I also decided to take the razor to the hone and try to clean up the toe. Since it was honed with one layer of electrical tape on the spine I did the same. After a few laps on the S30k it became apparent that what had happened is that the bevel hadn't been set quite right on the backside of the toe. Once that was corrected and the S30k brought to bear then it sharpened right up, and whereas the original edge wouldn't pass my hair test at the toe (and this was born out in the shave) it now topples and fillets the finest armhairs with ease.
Shave test part 2 tomorrow, using the Dovo strop this time.
I also decided to take the razor to the hone and try to clean up the toe. Since it was honed with one layer of electrical tape on the spine I did the same. After a few laps on the S30k it became apparent that what had happened is that the bevel hadn't been set quite right on the backside of the toe. Once that was corrected and the S30k brought to bear then it sharpened right up, and whereas the original edge wouldn't pass my hair test at the toe (and this was born out in the shave) it now topples and fillets the finest armhairs with ease.
Shave test part 2 tomorrow, using the Dovo strop this time.
- Thread starter
- #270
Yay!
I got mine today.
Aesthetically, this is fairly impressive, looking sort of like a "tactical" straight, appropriate for the Navy Seals. The scales on mine really seem more like ebony than silicon. There is nothing rubbery about them. Maybe they made a few ebony scales, rather than just the one prototype. The blade finish is almost gun metal-like in appearance, so is compemented nicely by the black scales. The total effect is much more masculine than any of my other razors (TI Silverwing, Le Grelot 6/8", Dovo Borgischer Lowe, and two Zowadas).
Since it is advertised as being shave ready, I didn't even strop mine. I found the edge to be excellent, better than on the Silverwing or Le Grelot and basically as good as one of the Zowadas (the other Zowada is scary sharp).
The shave was one of the closest I've achieved with any razor, especially in the moustache area.
Although I found it to be a great shaver in terms of its ability to achieve a BBS shave, I think I can see room for improvement in its ergonomics (at least for my hands). The shank is fairly wide and the width caused the razor to feel a little cumbersome. If the shank were narrowed some near the shoulder (as on one of my Zowadas, which is almost identical in all dimensions except blade width), it would be vastly improved. Also, file jimps on the spine and along the bottom of the shank, as on my Silverwing, would be another great improvement. I'd also like to see a 5/8" version (personal preference).
All in all, though, I think this is an impressive razor and, in terms of its heft, seems different than what is mostly available from TI and Dovo and does offer a shave experience with an edge quality that I consider as good as a Zowada.
I read the above entries after stropping the razor, but my latigo strop was not damaged by this razor.
Aesthetically, this is fairly impressive, looking sort of like a "tactical" straight, appropriate for the Navy Seals. The scales on mine really seem more like ebony than silicon. There is nothing rubbery about them. Maybe they made a few ebony scales, rather than just the one prototype. The blade finish is almost gun metal-like in appearance, so is compemented nicely by the black scales. The total effect is much more masculine than any of my other razors (TI Silverwing, Le Grelot 6/8", Dovo Borgischer Lowe, and two Zowadas).
Since it is advertised as being shave ready, I didn't even strop mine. I found the edge to be excellent, better than on the Silverwing or Le Grelot and basically as good as one of the Zowadas (the other Zowada is scary sharp).
The shave was one of the closest I've achieved with any razor, especially in the moustache area.
Although I found it to be a great shaver in terms of its ability to achieve a BBS shave, I think I can see room for improvement in its ergonomics (at least for my hands). The shank is fairly wide and the width caused the razor to feel a little cumbersome. If the shank were narrowed some near the shoulder (as on one of my Zowadas, which is almost identical in all dimensions except blade width), it would be vastly improved. Also, file jimps on the spine and along the bottom of the shank, as on my Silverwing, would be another great improvement. I'd also like to see a 5/8" version (personal preference).
All in all, though, I think this is an impressive razor and, in terms of its heft, seems different than what is mostly available from TI and Dovo and does offer a shave experience with an edge quality that I consider as good as a Zowada.
I read the above entries after stropping the razor, but my latigo strop was not damaged by this razor.
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to discuss your first experiences with the Hart. I've been up and down, and on the fence, waiting for everyone to weigh in and give us the benefit of your expertise as well as your first impressions.
first I want to thank mparker762 for the really informative post especially regarding stropping, I had only read your first few post yesterday and decided to use another razor yesterday in fear of damaging one of my strops, and I can certainly see what you are talking about, sorry to hear about your strop and hope you were able to recover it
as you surmised though in your later messages though I stropped mine today 30-35 on cotton and about 60 on my TM 3" red latigo and it did not damage the latigo at all,
Today's shave was a little smoother then the first which for me was no stropping just right off there honing, I like the feel of it and shaves so far as it silently goes about it's business pretty well but I need a few more shaves before I will pass any judgement
I edited my post # 204 with a few pictures I apologize for the quality but there really isn't much else to show as they are totally identical to what is on there website
as you surmised though in your later messages though I stropped mine today 30-35 on cotton and about 60 on my TM 3" red latigo and it did not damage the latigo at all,
Today's shave was a little smoother then the first which for me was no stropping just right off there honing, I like the feel of it and shaves so far as it silently goes about it's business pretty well but I need a few more shaves before I will pass any judgement
I edited my post # 204 with a few pictures I apologize for the quality but there really isn't much else to show as they are totally identical to what is on there website
After cleaning up the edge last night with the shaptons I took it for another spin again this morning. Toe is now as sharp as the rest of the edge. I didn't notice the edge deteriorating during the shave the way it did yesterday, so I suspect that it may have had a minor wire edge yesterday. I'll keep track of this over the next few shaves, just in case there's some inherent problem with edge strength due to the thin honing angle.
I like way this razor handles. The combination of the thin spine and quarter grind makes it feel like a frameback, but it doesn't look ungainly like a frameback.
I like way this razor handles. The combination of the thin spine and quarter grind makes it feel like a frameback, but it doesn't look ungainly like a frameback.
I am finding the same problems with the toe that every one else has.
Day one; I just went to the strop 20 times and shaved with it and found that a new guy could get a pretty good shave with it so I guess you could call it shave ready. It is not up to my standards so will hone it lightly before next shave.
Day two; Started honing starting at 16K Shapton and found that indeed they had used tape because the polish did not go to the very edge. I just could not get the toe into shape so dropped back to the Coticule, with slurry, and something did not feel right. I got out the magnifier and found just behind the toe I had micro and major chipping (more than 15% of the bevel). I also found that the bevel at the toe was not very well defined. I then went back to 500 and re-established the bevel for the entire blade. This steel is hard and if one is not careful you will chip it. I went all the way up back up to 0.25 diamond paste, wish I had a 30K Shapton, and finished with about 10 laps of Chrome.
The Shave was much improved, but a tad harsh, and the edge is very keen but stable because I found no chipping along the entire length after the shave. I would like to find the time to have pics and the like but this is taking more time than I have right now.
Finally I would say that I love the way it shaves and handles and it is going to be a keeper for me but this is not a razor for a new guy. In my book the smile coupled with the steel hardness is something that will take some skill to straighten out and hone to the "PERFECTLY" tuned status.
Take Care,
Richard
Day one; I just went to the strop 20 times and shaved with it and found that a new guy could get a pretty good shave with it so I guess you could call it shave ready. It is not up to my standards so will hone it lightly before next shave.
Day two; Started honing starting at 16K Shapton and found that indeed they had used tape because the polish did not go to the very edge. I just could not get the toe into shape so dropped back to the Coticule, with slurry, and something did not feel right. I got out the magnifier and found just behind the toe I had micro and major chipping (more than 15% of the bevel). I also found that the bevel at the toe was not very well defined. I then went back to 500 and re-established the bevel for the entire blade. This steel is hard and if one is not careful you will chip it. I went all the way up back up to 0.25 diamond paste, wish I had a 30K Shapton, and finished with about 10 laps of Chrome.
The Shave was much improved, but a tad harsh, and the edge is very keen but stable because I found no chipping along the entire length after the shave. I would like to find the time to have pics and the like but this is taking more time than I have right now.
Finally I would say that I love the way it shaves and handles and it is going to be a keeper for me but this is not a razor for a new guy. In my book the smile coupled with the steel hardness is something that will take some skill to straighten out and hone to the "PERFECTLY" tuned status.
Take Care,
Richard
This seems to be characteristic of O1 when it's hardened fully. I've got a couple of other O1 razors that are 64hrc or so, and they all need care to avoid microchipping, generally I go to the 15k shapton early, then do 30-60 laps on the 30k to make sure any microchipping is cleaned up. My Nakayama
Asagi works well on this sort of steel as well.
I checked mine after this morning shave as well and didn't see any microchipping, but it really needs more use before I'll be confident in the stability of the edge.
Thanks Mparker I appreciate the information. I am really looking forward to tomorrows shave since I have done more polishing work today and I honestly think I am very close to the edge that I want. The blade definitely has a very keen edge and I really like the feel of this razor.
Take Care,
Richard
Take Care,
Richard
- Thread starter
- #279
Fine. I'll say it.
This is very disappointing. Not only are they making a straight razor with a smile in it, but they aren't even honing it properly!!! ***. They are charging $240 for a plain jane razor and not even honing it correctly. AND, Mparker's scratched the crud out of his strop because the craftsman left some harsh edges. The box is a cheap afterthought from China. No torx key is included, so the new owner is going to have to travel around his city looking for a damn torx key. I can tell you from first hand experience that such a search is NOT FUN. I finally ended up replacing a torx with a flat head screw. Not only that, but I saw a one of a kind custom razor for $350 (still for sale), with a much nicer finish & scales. I'm going to call it what it is. An overpriced *** (piece of steel). I'm sorry TZ & co, but you will not get my money.
This is very disappointing. Not only are they making a straight razor with a smile in it, but they aren't even honing it properly!!! ***. They are charging $240 for a plain jane razor and not even honing it correctly. AND, Mparker's scratched the crud out of his strop because the craftsman left some harsh edges. The box is a cheap afterthought from China. No torx key is included, so the new owner is going to have to travel around his city looking for a damn torx key. I can tell you from first hand experience that such a search is NOT FUN. I finally ended up replacing a torx with a flat head screw. Not only that, but I saw a one of a kind custom razor for $350 (still for sale), with a much nicer finish & scales. I'm going to call it what it is. An overpriced *** (piece of steel). I'm sorry TZ & co, but you will not get my money.
A bit hash Leigton, but they are in trouble for sure if they can not make some changes very rapidly. Hopefully they are monitoring what is going on here, I suspect they are. This is not a Noob razor, to be sure, and takes a fair amount of skill to hone them to peak performance. To be fair though, I have never sent out a razor to be honed that met my standards and a couple have been done by people that are "legends" in straight razordom.
I think it is good that the feedback at B&B has been fairly rapid so that people can gauge what they are getting into, or not! I personally am going to write Hart and let them know what I have encountered and hopefully they will address the issues in a timely manner. If the note falls on deaf ears, well, it was not meant to be.
By the way a regular allen wrench will work in a Torx for this application.
Take Care,
Richard
I think it is good that the feedback at B&B has been fairly rapid so that people can gauge what they are getting into, or not! I personally am going to write Hart and let them know what I have encountered and hopefully they will address the issues in a timely manner. If the note falls on deaf ears, well, it was not meant to be.
By the way a regular allen wrench will work in a Torx for this application.
Take Care,
Richard
