Lol’d.
Wanting a Gun safe maybe Black Friday deal
- Thread starter Bobbers
- Start date
Lol’d.
Great post. Even though many here will doubt this obvious truth because they believe their Safe’s steel is supposed to be thicker or burglar proof because it says Liberty, or Ft. Knox, or Bear or any other name. It’s all marketing and I agree with you and your experience in steel 1000 %.
I had a 64 gun Liberty safe for 30 years which I gave to my oldest son when we finally got all the kids grown and gone and sold our 4 bedroom house and downsized to something smaller.
I purchased a smaller 18 gun safe from a company called Stack On. While most know Stack On makes many thin steel gun cabinets which are not safes, my particular Stack On is actually, a real authentic safe.
And while the door on my safe looks nothing like the bank vault type looking doors on a Liberty safe, the steel on the sides of my Stack On, is actually thicker than the steel that made up the sides of my Liberty safe.
So there’s that.
As a retired police officer of a major metropolitan city, I have seen my share of burglaries. So I would like to expel several myths or misnomers that I either keep reading in these safe threads or certain truths and facts about safes that some may still be looking over.
1. Most commercially available brands of safes, that are marketed to residential home owners, are all manufactured with in certain ranges of steel gauges of steel.
2. While it is an exaggeration when someone says these safes can be compromised in just a few minutes, it isn’t an exaggeration to say the sides and tops of these safes can be compromised by the average home burglar between the time ranges of 20 to 45 minutes depending on what type of tools they are using, torches, cutters, grinders, etc.
3. The above information includes most brands of commercially available residential safes. ( and yes, this includes Liberty, Ft. Knox and any other well known name brand.). Yes I know, it’s a shock to those who like to brag about their name brand safe. Have a seat, the shock will wear off.
4. Get ready for another shock. Those of you who have $5,000 plus safes? And they have over 3/8 plus thick steel? And they absolutely blow away most of your average name brand safes? And you think your safe is impenetrable and burglar proof?
If you DO NOT, have any other kind of layered home security plan for your house like an alarm or steel bars on your doors and windows or Rottweiler’s out in the yard?
Then that expensive thick safe can be cut or broken into also. Why? Because a thief will have all the time in the world to get in it because no one knows they are in there and no one is coming to chase them off or catch them.
5. Simple Fact. If I was able to get into the actual Ft. Knox. If there was no alarm, no armed guards no detection/ deterrent system of any kind and I was equipped with the proper tools? Yes, with all the time in the world and no one coming I could make off with all the gold.
6. I have seen several threads here over the years about safes. The debate about burglar proof safes that have 1/2 thick steel is a moot point if you do not have a layered security prevention plan?
7. The same goes for the guys who while own these expensive safes, knocking the average home owner who can afford any decent commercially available residential safe. These cheaper safes, are actually VERY EFFECTIVE AGAINST THEFT and not being compromised by the average burglar if…. THEY ARE MATCHED with an added, intelligent, comprehensive, layered, home security plan.
8. Here are some safe facts:
1. Liberty safes are a top leading brand for residential safes.
2. Most residential safes steel gauges range between 14 to 20 gauge steel. 14 to 20 is still very thin and can be comprised between 20-45 minutes using the right tools.
3. Liberty safes have 8 levels of steel for their safes depending on how much you are willing to pay. Level I & II safes are only 14 gauge steel.
Level III, IV, & V safes are 11 Gauge steel. Level III’s start out at over $2,000 dollars. IV & V’s are $3,000 for the same thickness of 11 gauge steel. Level VII & VIII’s? 7 gauge steel that are well over the 5K price mark.
4. Most here who own a Liberty safe and didn’t pay 2K for it? Are only level 1 or 2’s and have only 14 gauge steel which is typical for many other brand of safes also.
If you paid 2K you probably have a level 3 and it’s 11 gauge which is good, but if you think your 11 gauge steel safe is burglar proof and don’t have a layered security plan because you think your Liberty safe is better than others? You are sadly mistaken, because it can be compromised also with the right tools and an unlimited time factor to get in.
I used to own a Liberty safe. I think I got it for about $1400 dollars many years ago before giving it to my son. $1400. It was only 12 gauge steel. I got my very small Stack On brand safe I have now for like $300 on a Black Friday sale about 4 years ago. It actually has 11 gauge steel. Imagine that! For only $300 Benjamin’s!
The best thing about my little safe isn’t its steel gauge thickness. What’s best about my safe that makes it burglar proof?
1. It is wedged into a small closet where the walls of that closet are maybe an inch away from either side of the safe. This makes it impossible to get a crow bar between the sides in order to pry out.
2. The bottom of the safe is bolted down to the concrete foundation floor.
3. The back of the safe is screwed into the wooden studs of the wall.
4. I have a Simpli- Safe alarm system that incorporates door and window sensors, motion detectors, glass breaks and a motion video camera.
5. While most average burglars only carry around screwdrivers and other small hand tools, unless they are professionals, they just don’t carry around electric power tools. And While I read someone mention battery operated, I kinda laugh if someone thinks you can cut open even cheap safes quickly? In just a few minutes? With a battery operated cutter? Without a battery change? Funny stuff.
6. A burglar who hears that loud home alarm system going off, if he has any sense the good lord gave him, will realize he has 10-20 minutes depending on how good your local police department is, before responding officers show up. This means they will have to bypass your safe regardless how expensive or cheap it is and they will have to just do what all typical thieves do?
They will just crash & grab whatever isn’t nailed down. TV? Xbox? PlayStation? All of this should be insured against theft. But guns, jewelry and important documents? Should be in that safe.
Let’s quit debating safes and their myths, misnomers and our perceptions of their quality because of their brand name every single year when Black Friday rolls around.
A. All safes are worthless against theft if a thief has forever to get in them.
B. This means if you want to secure your guns, have a layered home security plan. And a home alarm system is a good start.
C. Once your layered security plan is in place? Get whatever residential home safe you want regardless of price.
D. But make sure it is installed correctly. Get it in a small space where walls can come close to the sides
E. There are holes in the safes bottom for a reason. Bolt it down to the floor!
F. There are holes in the back of the safe for a reason. Bolt it back against the wall also!
Merry Christmas to all and happy safe hunting!
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Ok, now I’m going to check out Eastern.
I bet they are! <cough>
My next safe that should have been my first safe will be a 20 x 20 filled block room with a 4" thick concrete roof and a set Fort Knox vault door. Fun fact, 4" concrete can run 10 feet before you need a support so one pole in the middle. Thinking a small wet bar/work bench, a half bath, a couch and recliner, a TV, modular shelving, and padded hangers everwhere there is free space and I should be GTG! The door is actually the most expensive part of the project!
I'll tie it into the central air, Rob. Already getting a whole home dehumidifier for Christmas!Don’t forget a dehumidification system Chris!
Make sure the air ducts are small. A skinny crack head could use them as a crawl space right into your new gun room.
I'd be modifying the basement for the project. Standard size vents so 4" x 10". Someone would have to be one heck of a contortionist!Make sure the air ducts are small. A skinny crack head could use them as a crawl space right into your new gun room.
- Thread starter
- #49
Well written.Great post. Even though many here will doubt this obvious truth because they believe their Safe’s steel is supposed to be thicker or burglar proof because it says Liberty, or Ft. Knox, or Bear or any other name. It’s all marketing and I agree with you and your experience in steel 1000 %.
I had a 64 gun Liberty safe for 30 years which I gave to my oldest son when we finally got all the kids grown and gone and sold our 4 bedroom house and downsized to something smaller.
I purchased a smaller 18 gun safe from a company called Stack On. While most know Stack On makes many thin steel gun cabinets which are not safes, my particular Stack On is actually, a real authentic safe.
And while the door on my safe looks nothing like the bank vault type looking doors on a Liberty safe, the steel on the sides of my Stack On, is actually thicker than the steel that made up the sides of my Liberty safe.
So there’s that.
As a retired police officer of a major metropolitan city, I have seen my share of burglaries. So I would like to expel several myths or misnomers that I either keep reading in these safe threads or certain truths and facts about safes that some may still be looking over.
1. Most commercially available brands of safes, that are marketed to residential home owners, are all manufactured with in certain ranges of steel gauges of steel.
2. While it is an exaggeration when someone says these safes can be compromised in just a few minutes, it isn’t an exaggeration to say the sides and tops of these safes can be compromised by the average home burglar between the time ranges of 20 to 45 minutes depending on what type of tools they are using, torches, cutters, grinders, etc.
3. The above information includes most brands of commercially available residential safes. ( and yes, this includes Liberty, Ft. Knox and any other well known name brand.). Yes I know, it’s a shock to those who like to brag about their name brand safe. Have a seat, the shock will wear off.
4. Get ready for another shock. Those of you who have $5,000 plus safes? And they have over 3/8 plus thick steel? And they absolutely blow away most of your average name brand safes? And you think your safe is impenetrable and burglar proof?
If you DO NOT, have any other kind of layered home security plan for your house like an alarm or steel bars on your doors and windows or Rottweiler’s out in the yard?
Then that expensive thick safe can be cut or broken into also. Why? Because a thief will have all the time in the world to get in it because no one knows they are in there and no one is coming to chase them off or catch them.
5. Simple Fact. If I was able to get into the actual Ft. Knox. If there was no alarm, no armed guards no detection/ deterrent system of any kind and I was equipped with the proper tools? Yes, with all the time in the world and no one coming I could make off with all the gold.
6. I have seen several threads here over the years about safes. The debate about burglar proof safes that have 1/2 thick steel is a moot point if you do not have a layered security prevention plan?
7. The same goes for the guys who while own these expensive safes, knocking the average home owner who can afford any decent commercially available residential safe. These cheaper safes, are actually VERY EFFECTIVE AGAINST THEFT and not being compromised by the average burglar if…. THEY ARE MATCHED with an added, intelligent, comprehensive, layered, home security plan.
8. Here are some safe facts:
1. Liberty safes are a top leading brand for residential safes.
2. Most residential safes steel gauges range between 14 to 20 gauge steel. 14 to 20 is still very thin and can be comprised between 20-45 minutes using the right tools.
3. Liberty safes have 8 levels of steel for their safes depending on how much you are willing to pay. Level I & II safes are only 14 gauge steel.
Level III, IV, & V safes are 11 Gauge steel. Level III’s start out at over $2,000 dollars. IV & V’s are $3,000 for the same thickness of 11 gauge steel. Level VII & VIII’s? 7 gauge steel that are well over the 5K price mark.
4. Most here who own a Liberty safe and didn’t pay 2K for it? Are only level 1 or 2’s and have only 14 gauge steel which is typical for many other brand of safes also.
If you paid 2K you probably have a level 3 and it’s 11 gauge which is good, but if you think your 11 gauge steel safe is burglar proof and don’t have a layered security plan because you think your Liberty safe is better than others? You are sadly mistaken, because it can be compromised also with the right tools and an unlimited time factor to get in.
I used to own a Liberty safe. I think I got it for about $1400 dollars many years ago before giving it to my son. $1400. It was only 12 gauge steel. I got my very small Stack On brand safe I have now for like $300 on a Black Friday sale about 4 years ago. It actually has 11 gauge steel. Imagine that! For only $300 Benjamin’s!
The best thing about my little safe isn’t its steel gauge thickness. What’s best about my safe that makes it burglar proof?
1. It is wedged into a small closet where the walls of that closet are maybe an inch away from either side of the safe. This makes it impossible to get a crow bar between the sides in order to pry out.
2. The bottom of the safe is bolted down to the concrete foundation floor.
3. The back of the safe is screwed into the wooden studs of the wall.
4. I have a Simpli- Safe alarm system that incorporates door and window sensors, motion detectors, glass breaks and a motion video camera.
5. While most average burglars only carry around screwdrivers and other small hand tools, unless they are professionals, they just don’t carry around electric power tools. And While I read someone mention battery operated, I kinda laugh if someone thinks you can cut open even cheap safes quickly? In just a few minutes? With a battery operated cutter? Without a battery change? Funny stuff.
6. A burglar who hears that loud home alarm system going off, if he has any sense the good lord gave him, will realize he has 10-20 minutes depending on how good your local police department is, before responding officers show up. This means they will have to bypass your safe regardless how expensive or cheap it is and they will have to just do what all typical thieves do?
They will just crash & grab whatever isn’t nailed down. TV? Xbox? PlayStation? All of this should be insured against theft. But guns, jewelry and important documents? Should be in that safe.
Let’s quit debating safes and their myths, misnomers and our perceptions of their quality because of their brand name every single year when Black Friday rolls around.
A. All safes are worthless against theft if a thief has forever to get in them.
B. This means if you want to secure your guns, have a layered home security plan. And a home alarm system is a good start.
C. Once your layered security plan is in place? Get whatever residential home safe you want regardless of price.
D. But make sure it is installed correctly. Get it in a small space where walls can come close to the sides
E. There are holes in the safes bottom for a reason. Bolt it down to the floor!
F. There are holes in the back of the safe for a reason. Bolt it back against the wall also!
Merry Christmas to all and happy safe hunting!
This is the information I was looking for.
It also falls into the category of "kisss".
Thank you vary much.
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
I'm sure @OkieStubble has worked similar. One morning I went on a business burglary call. They had broke out the glass door of the convenience store and wrapped a chain around the squat safe in the back room and pulled it out with a truck. They drug it down N. Main street leaving gouges in the asphalt. I followed the gouges but lost the drag marks after awhile.
The safe was found a couple of days later in a field on the other side of town. They had cut through the bottom of the safe with an axe and got inside.
I also worked a residential burglary one time at a drug dealers house. It was a solid brick house with iron bars over all the windows and doors. They had cut a hole in the back outside wall, over the bathtub, with...an axe. They left the axe in the bathtub. Stole all of his drugs and cash. He didn't say what they stole but someone else told us.
It kinda comes down to what you want.
This:
Or this:
The safe was found a couple of days later in a field on the other side of town. They had cut through the bottom of the safe with an axe and got inside.
I also worked a residential burglary one time at a drug dealers house. It was a solid brick house with iron bars over all the windows and doors. They had cut a hole in the back outside wall, over the bathtub, with...an axe. They left the axe in the bathtub. Stole all of his drugs and cash. He didn't say what they stole but someone else told us.
It kinda comes down to what you want.
This:
Or this:
I might have mentioned this before, but years ago, I was dispatched and responded to a burg 1. While I was en route, the 911 operator called me on my cell phone and told me that the actual 911 call was made by the burglary suspect who decided to turn himself in. When several of us showed up blacked out, we could see the home owner thru the front window, holding the suspect at gunpoint. The suspect was still on the phone with 911 when we made entry.
The home owner made the suspect call 911 and tell on himself! Can't make this kinda crazy stuff up, so it's gotta be a true story!
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