Vintage Stereo System Love

[Columbo]

This may be oranges to all of y'all's apples, but a few years ago, my wife and I scored a mid '60s Dumont console stereo. It has a Garrard turntable, and all tube electronics. The cabinet has a few scratches due to its age, but as a piece of furniture, it's beautiful. As a stereo, it is absolutely wonderful! There's nothing like hearing old Dean, Frank, Miles, Dave Brubeck, the Ventures, or Buck Owens records through those tubes. They all sound so "warm". It really takes me back to my youth. The smell of this one when I open the lid, smells just like the one my parents had when I was little.

View attachment 1520032View attachment 1520033

...and here it is in our new house:
View attachment 1520034

I still have make time to clean up the right speaker grille. Once I do that, I'll probably have to clean the left one, too, so they'll match.

Good for you. Enjoy. It really ain’t got no groove if it ain’t got tubes. I chased the high end for years. But eventually came back home to golden era tube gear some decades ago.

Almost everything I listen to passes through them. Vintage tubed stereo receivers all over the house, vintage tubed separates feeding some now classic Thiels. A 65 year old Grundig table radio in the bedroom. Some really beautiful equipment, all fully reconditioned years ago on my bench.

Music is just more alive with bottles glowing inside. Right now I am listening to Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Martin and Monro crooning though equipment and tubes made when Ike and Kennedy were President. The other night it was Gentleman Jim Reeves all evening long.

Maybe some pictures later.

The only exception is a Marantz 2230 in our garage, which is pretty decent sounding for a slightly later box of Japanese sand.

 

[ylekot]

Good for you. Enjoy. It really ain’t got no groove if it ain’t got tubes. I chased the high end for years. But eventually came back home to golden era tube gear some decades ago.

Almost everything I listen to passes through them. Vintage tubed stereo receivers all over the house, vintage tubed separates feeding some now classic Thiels. A 65 year old Grundig table radio in the bedroom. Some really beautiful equipment, all fully reconditioned years ago on my bench.

Music is just more alive with bottles glowing inside. Right now I am listening to Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Martin and Monro crooning though equipment and tubes made when Ike and Kennedy were President. The other night it was Gentleman Jim Reeves all evening long.

Maybe some pictures later.

The only exception is a Marantz 2230 in our garage, which is pretty decent sounding for a slightly later box of Japanese sand.

Vintage tube gear is cool as hell man! Alas getting them safely up and running and keeping them that way.....nope, not for me. I have been zapped so many times I sweat and shake changing a light bulb.

 

[ylekot]

Good for you. Enjoy. It really ain’t got no groove if it ain’t got tubes. I chased the high end for years. But eventually came back home to golden era tube gear some decades ago.

Almost everything I listen to passes through them. Vintage tubed stereo receivers all over the house, vintage tubed separates feeding some now classic Thiels. A 65 year old Grundig table radio in the bedroom. Some really beautiful equipment, all fully reconditioned years ago on my bench.

Music is just more alive with bottles glowing inside. Right now I am listening to Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Martin and Monro crooning though equipment and tubes made when Ike and Kennedy were President. The other night it was Gentleman Jim Reeves all evening long.

Maybe some pictures later.

The only exception is a Marantz 2230 in our garage, which is pretty decent sounding for a slightly later box of Japanese sand.

I have thought about getting one of the newer tube stereo amps, Monoprice or Amazon has them, .and hooking my Cerwin Vega's up to it. the CV's are quite efficient so don't need a ton of power to perform. I'm just hesitant because sound perception is so individual and I'm worried that the gooey tube goodness isn't built into the new stuff the same. I remember my father having some gigantic beast when I was little, The inside looked like a pile of spaghetti, I know now it was "point to point" wiring. Wish I had it now or even knew what it was. BIG VU meters on the front, man it was cool.

 

[Columbo]

Vintage tube gear is cool as hell man! Alas getting them safely up and running and keeping them that way.....nope, not for me. I have been zapped so many times I sweat and shake changing a light bulb.

The issue with tube gear today, especially for folks just dipping their toes in it, are the tubes themselves. The particular tubes, and not any tube, are where the magic happens. And we have entered a new era of tubes and availability. I’m frankly surprised by it, and not much surprises me anymore in life.

Most of the old vintage stocks are gone now. The musicians ate them all up in the popular types over the years, chewing them up in their Voxes, Fenders and Marshalls. For the old hands, we still have caddies of golden classics for ourselves. Many a $5 hamfest buy in my caddies are now $250 bottles. But for someone just starting, it’s now daunting and increasingly expensive. Many of the remaining ’NOS’ tubes left are rejects from the field that need thorough culling. Even used/test good vintage glass is commanding a ridiculous premium.

That leaves current production, which 30-40 years ago we turned our noses up at. It has gotten better, the Russians in particular, but still not quite up to the heyday standards. With the politics, there are now shortages, and prices have gotten nutty. Seventy dollars for a Saratov small signal tube is flat out nuts. I don’t care how much the pins are gold plated.

But that is what most of the vendors are now left with: limited stocks of Russian and Chinese bottles … and old musician standby JJs, which is an ok tube for hi-fi. The factory tests, screens and matches them, and puts ever fancier paint and logos on them. But they’re still just Russian and Chinese new production.

And most bigger vendors now cater 90% to the musicians, so the audio buyers are the red headed stepchildren that no one thinks about much anymore. They audition them for overdrive and clipping, not your vinyl. So you need to do a lot of your own research, or ask the old hands for advice.

I never thought I’d see the day where people were paying $35-40 for Chinese tubes. Back in the day, they were $3 bottle rockets that sometimes threatened the equipment, and were only found as heavily screened OE to save money. The only consolation is that the better designers sometimes voiced their gear around them, which makes rolling a little more interesting and flexible with them.

All of this is not meant to be snobby. It’s just an honest survey to help beginners proceed with caution. Even the Russian tubes, if thoughtfully chosen, will sound better than most transistor circuits (imo). Just be prepared to spend a lot more than we did back in the day, and you still may not get the full “Holy Wow! That guy is right here!” we did out of them when it all clicked. But you should be pleasantly surprised nevertheless.

Don’t let what I am telling you dissuade you from it. Odd order harmonic distortion sounds lousy in comparison, no matter the price of the sandbox. There’s a reason some of the old recordings still sound so incredible. It was because it was recorded and mastered through tubes. You can still bring that magic back in your home system.

If you can find a gently used piece from an old granny (played only on holidays) with the original tubing, grab it, fully recap it, and enjoy the heck out of it. Those old bottles are the magic makers. It was the product of SOTA electronics production and research of the world’s largest companies back in the day. Precision manufacturing and the very best materials. And we will never quite see it, or hear it, ever again.

 

[Wishoot]

Back in the day

About 20 years ago a friend of mine scoured every garage sale, antique store and thrift store for any and all tubes they had. The older the better.

I thought he had lost his mind.

Little did I know he was sitting on a fortune of vintage tubes today.

 

[ylekot]

The issue with tube gear today, especially for folks just dipping their toes in it, are the tubes themselves. The particular tubes, and not any tube, are where the magic happens. And we have entered a new era of tubes and availability. I’m frankly surprised by it, and not much surprises me anymore in life.

Most of the old vintage stocks are gone now. The musicians ate them all up in the popular types over the years, chewing them up in their Voxes, Fenders and Marshalls. For the old hands, we still have caddies of golden classics for ourselves. Many a $5 hamfest buy in my caddies are now $250 bottles. But for someone just starting, it’s now daunting and increasingly expensive. Many of the remaining ’NOS’ tubes left are rejects from the field that need thorough culling. Even used/test good vintage glass is commanding a ridiculous premium.

That leaves current production, which 30-40 years ago we turned our noses up at. It has gotten better, the Russians in particular, but still not quite up to the heyday standards. With the politics, there are now shortages, and prices have gotten nutty. Seventy dollars for a Saratov small signal tube is flat out nuts. I don’t care how much the pins are gold plated.

But that is what most of the vendors are now left with: limited stocks of Russian and Chinese bottles … and old musician standby JJs, which is an ok tube for hi-fi. The factory tests, screens and matches them, and puts ever fancier paint and logos on them. But they’re still just Russian and Chinese new production.

And most bigger vendors now cater 90% to the musicians, so the audio buyers are the red headed stepchildren that no one thinks about much anymore. They audition them for overdrive and clipping, not your vinyl. So you need to do a lot of your own research, or ask the old hands for advice.

I never thought I’d see the day where people were paying $35-40 for Chinese tubes. Back in the day, they were $3 bottle rockets that sometimes threatened the equipment, and were only found as heavily screened OE to save money. The only consolation is that the better designers sometimes voiced their gear around them, which makes rolling a little more interesting and flexible with them.

All of this is not meant to be snobby. It’s just an honest survey to help beginners proceed with caution. Even the Russian tubes, if thoughtfully chosen, will sound better than most transistor circuits (imo). Just be prepared to spend a lot more than we did back in the day, and you still may not get the full “Holy Wow! That guy is right here!” we did out of them when it all clicked. But you should be pleasantly surprised nevertheless.

Don’t let what I am telling you dissuade you from it. Odd order harmonic distortion sounds lousy in comparison, no matter the price of the sandbox. There’s a reason some of the old recordings still sound so incredible. It was because it was recorded and mastered through tubes. You can still bring that magic back in your home system.

If you can find a gently used piece from an old granny (played only on holidays) with the original tubing, grab it, fully recap it, and enjoy the heck out of it. Those old bottles are the magic makers. It was the product of SOTA electronics production and research of the world’s largest companies back in the day. Precision manufacturing and the very best materials. And we will never quite see it, or hear it, ever again.

This is AWESOME!!

 

[ylekot]

I burned through a few in an old Fender Twin Reverb......wish I still had that one too

 

[Wishoot]

Went back home last week only to find that my brother had thrown out a pristine Technics SA 700 because "It didn't work". I didn't even have the chance to rescue or repair the old girl. She's just gone.

 

[Steel2It]

I threw out my Pioneer SA-9100 integrated amp when a channel went dead. Didn't know about vintage stereo repair then, but now frequent a couple of shops and have some new old gear to go with my old, old gear. My basement system:

TT is a Philips GA-212, Speakers are JBL L100A, Cassette deck is Sony TC-K81. More upstairs, and a lot more vinyl. Love the old sound and wish I had tubes...

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

A while back, I rescued my old Technics SA-101receiver and turntable along with my big Bose 401 speakers and Pioneer CD player that were languishing in the basement of my parents home. I also rescued about 300 records and CD's. A bit of dusting and Deoxit and everything is as good as new.

It's a fairly basic system from my high school days. I completely forgot what a sumptuous sound my old stereo produces. So much better than streaming IMO.

Anyone else out there returning to old stereo systems and vinyl/CD's?

Wishoot:

...rings back 'old-school' memories of listening to music...you should see if you can 'snag' a Technics amplifier unit.

“Music is at the same time an enjoyment, an indulgence and an escape from reality”. CBJ

 

[ShavingPrimate]

Never stopped listening to vinyl on tube electronics and big horn speakers.

I had a dozen new and vintage tube amps. I have vintage Altec and Heritage Klipsch horn speakers.

 

[ShavingPrimate]

View attachment 1564173

I used to have an amp like that. I think it was the one that was just one down? Mine was the 30-Watt version.

 

[ShavingPrimate]

The issue with tube gear today, especially for folks just dipping their toes in it, are the tubes themselves. The particular tubes, and not any tube, are where the magic happens. And we have entered a new era of tubes and availability. I’m frankly surprised by it, and not much surprises me anymore in life.

That is something most people are not understanding. Although there are many nice sounding modern tube amps, the real magic lies with using NOS tubes. I do have some NOS RFT EL34's.

They do wonderful things with my horn speakers.

I only use my tube amps on horn or legacy speakers.

I use strictly SS on all my modern tower and bookshelf speakers.

It was the product of SOTA electronics production and research of the world’s largest companies back in the day. Precision manufacturing and the very best materials. And we will never quite see it, or hear it, ever again.

.
Yeah, they can make new tubes but they will never make tubes the way that they used to.

People have no idea that tube factories were the size of automobile factories.

 

[Steel2It]

I used to have an amp like that. I think it was the one that was just one down? Mine was the 30-Watt version.

The 1060 is 30w per side RMS into 8 Ohms, so that's likely what you had. I think the 1030 was rated at 20w.

 

[Wishoot]

Recently picked up a vintage Pioneer SX-1500TD. Capacitors replaced and added LEDs. Really a beautiful stereo receiver and pairs nicely with various speakers in my small collection. Currently hooked up to some Boston Acoustic CR8s.

 

[StuMcB]

How old is that set up?

When I met my now wife in 1995 she already had a Technics system , all separated and with added turn table. We get it serviced by a small independent 1 man band shop in a near by town, but spares are getting hard to sort out now. So we bought another one for parts of the bay. So that's got to be around 30 years old now. It still sounds great to us and the turntable is great too.

 

[ShavingPrimate]

The 1060 is 30w per side RMS into 8 Ohms, so that's likely what you had. I think the 1030 was rated at 20w.

You are most likely correct. The 1060 is the number that most rings a bell. Might have been the 30 though?

I had bought it used. I walked into the stereo store and it was sitting on card table. Never had the original box or owners manual. Photo looks the same. It was back in the middle 70's.

It was a nice sounding amp with my Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater speakers.

 

[Columbo]

Never had the original box or owners manual. Photo looks the same. It was back in the middle 70's.

My, this little thread has had long legs here.

It's good to see the continuing interest in old audio gear outside of the enthusiast circles, especially as the youngsters today sadly tend to only listen to their phones. They have no idea how wonderful music at home once sounded. At one time, this stuff was the entertainment centerpiece of many a living room.

Ok ... I will share one of the many little tubed jewels from our collection.

This one does have the original box and owners manual. I picked it up at an auction about 30 years ago. The knucklehead seller snapped the dial cord lifting it out of the carton for photos. But it is a 30 minute fix I've done many times in the past, and we have the era-correct new white dial cord stock for whoever does it.

It is a Fisher 800C receiver, bought brand new in 1965 by an Air Force Colonel at PX. He was a doctor of some sort, perhaps medical. I will not name the original buyer's name, except to say his last name was not Bellows.

It has never been used. For whatever reason, the Colonel bought it and never used it. I do not know the Colonel's fate. It was sitting in a warehouse for decades, sealed. It is true new old stock equipment, with everything just as Avery Fisher packed it at their NYC factory in 1965, right down to the factory FM dipole antenna, and including the original sales receipt. It also has a rare dual line voltage capability, and can operate on 110 or 220 vac. Probably so that the Colonel could play it overseas as well as stateside.

Since acquiring it 30 years ago, it has remained in its original shipping container, exactly as shown here. I purchased it not to play, but as an investment, as I already have too many working tube instruments in service. But all it would need to safely operate is a re-cap of the electrolytics, and replacement of the flat pack selenium rectifier that supplies output bias and DC heating to the low level amp circuit. And it would sound exactly as Fisher intended it to sound six decades ago.

I am not going to say what I paid for it at auction 30 years ago. But I am fairly confident that I could sell it in 15 minutes to a far East audiophile for between $10 and $15,000 (maybe more), a fantastic multiple of what I paid for it. Just the brand new tubes alone are now probably worth at least a couple thousand dollars, including nine new Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7s, and a matched quad of Westinghouse 7591As (which are now impossible to find). Even the new dial lamps, being a rare fuse type size, are probably worth at least $100. And their scarcity and value are only going to go up.

I'll never hear it play. I'll likely pass it along to my son. It is already nearly 60 years old. I suspect it may someday wind up as a museum exhibit. We have several factory Fisher cabinets to display it in should that ever be needed.

But having several other working examples of both this model and others, I will say that the Fisher B and C series receivers were probably the finest sounding of the tubed stereo receiver era, and among the best and richest sounding stereo receivers ever made. They were certainly among the best selling. I understand that even beat up ones are now fetching $2,000+ when they do pop up. Which is amazing, considering I would often pick them up back in the day for well under $100 to save them from the curb.

We have many other tubed instruments about the house, that we run regularly, going back to the 1950s. And some other old vintage sandboxes, too. Even our intercom system from 1968 still works perfectly. I will try to post some other pictures of those things from time to time, as time and energy permits.

 

[Columbo]

You are most likely correct. The 1060 is the number that most rings a bell. Might have been the 30 though?

I had bought it used. I walked into the stereo store and it was sitting on card table. Never had the original box or owners manual. Photo looks the same. It was back in the middle 70's.

It was a nice sounding amp with my Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater speakers.

The Marantz 1060 is a nice integrated amplifier from the Superscope era, after Saul Marantz sold the company, but while the Japanese were still doing a very good job with them.

It is an early capacitive-coupled topology, and a very close design cousin to the classic 2230 receiver (a fully restored example of which we run in a garage system).

Like the 2230, the 1060 relies on a single, very large value main filter capacitor that, despite being a high quality Elna, is now well past its service life. If not leaking, it will be sagging in capacitance, which drags down the entire unit's performance.

The best thing you can do for one of these at this point is to replace that capacitor, together with a full recap of the driver boards to protect the outputs. The best replacement for that main filter I have found to be a US-made Sprague, which was a $65 capacitor, but very well worth the cost.

For a number of years, you could retain much of the original voicing on these by using Elna Silmics in the signal path, and some judicious selections of Nichicons for the remainder.

The output coupling caps are usually still ok on these, and they are best left alone unless there is a problem, as the Elnas are very good sounding and directly in the signal path. But I was able to source some rare Black Gates to upgrade our 2230 couplers, and it did elevate the sound to an altogether different strata, dramatically better, but still preserving the original lush Marantz timbre. And a Black Gate, while now long out of production, seems to last forever (from chats with techs in recent years).

There is a large Marantz enthusiast community for pieces from this period, and there are ample parts still available for restoration, repair and upgrade of these models. But except for the Black Gate upgrade above (I could not resist), it is best to leave these as close to original as possible, which is a large part of their attraction.

I have seen many wonderful vintage pieces Dr. Stereo'ed to death by well meaning but ill-informed enthusiasts who thought they could make them sound better than the original designers. The original design on these was a well-contemplated recipe of parts and circuit choices by their creators, often involving thousands of hours of listening tests and voicing tweaks throughout the circuits, to get the sonics just right. Sometimes new and "better" parts destroy that special balance.

 

[Tirvine]

My stereo has been through a few evolutions and revolutions over the years. It currently has a Vinyl Nirvana VN150 with an Ortofon bronze 2m, a Rogue Sphinx, and Tekton Pendragons. The VN is a circa 1970 Thorens TD150 with a Rega Moth arm, Cardas wiring, extra damping, a cork mat, and a gorgeous mahogany plinth. It sounds better than both the stock TD150 with Kugel arm and the TD125 with SME3009 I previously ran. The Sphinx is 100w of Class D power but has a tube preamp stage. Its phono pre is excellent. The Pendragons look like black refrigerator cartons, are extremely efficient, and sound spectacular. If I were to make a change, I might go to an SS amp. The tuner is an old Adcom GFT 555 off eBay and is terrific when I am too lazy to flip records. As to records, I buy boxed sets off Amazon from time to time. They are good deals, often mint or near mint. I have got a set of Beethoven symphonies (Toscanini), Mozart's last 6 symphonies, Ravel's complete solo piano, Handel concerti grossi, and Vivaldi concerti recently. Tons of fun. Most of them were about $12 for three records.