They're there - in many more teas than you'd think. Once you start to taste for them, you'll notice them more and more. It's ruined so many teas for me, but made me come to appreciate a few teas so much more!
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SOTD- sheng of the day
- Thread starter ouch
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They're there - in many more teas than you'd think. Once you start to taste for them, you'll notice them more and more. It's ruined so many teas for me, but made me come to appreciate a few teas so much more!
I don't doubt that they're there. I suspect that a big benefit of heavily processed tea like Wuyis and hongchas comes from a more thorough destruction of such pesticides. It's just something to live with and brew around as needed. At the end of the day, improper processing and bad storage of sheng is a bigger global issue.
YYX today, a bit overdosed to finish off the sample. Much better body today, in the early going, still thins out seriously, and the texture is never great. Some aspects were improved from sitting in the bag after first opening. However, I'm thoroughly not impressed with the YYX. The heavy spiciness covers what is essentially a somewhat traditionally stored tea. The first session was rather merged in characteristic, so it wasn't so easy to taste the shicang nature, but this session, I can taste the spice above and the wet-stored characteristics below pretty distinctly. The previous sessions with the 2003 SM and the Tai Lian showed that there is apparently very little difference between the dry stored and the wet stored. Wet stored is more soily and less spicy, and the slight fruit at the end of the taste or in the aftertaste is a bit stronger than in the dry stored. Anyways, the cooling is pretty good, but strictly back of the mouth, top of the throat, and doesn't go down. Bitterness isn't strong, not productive, and goes away after a few brews. The aroma is about the same as from the first session but a little less strong. This has a better, less astringent, finish than the 2003 SM, but not as good as the Tai Lian. Taste stays in the mouth some. There is a little bit of qi, especially in the early session, or if you come back to it after a break. This tea does numb the tip of the tongue.
But yeah, stuff like the Tai Lian, 2001 Simplified 7542, HeShiHua 2001, 2002 Big Green Tree from Finepuer, etc, are all better teas by a good margin. This is of the calibre of 2003 HeShiHua Jingmai from Best Tea, and things like the 2002 Nannuo White Tips and 1999 Dadugang Yuanbao are slightly better. Definitely one of those teas that are more famous than good.
YYX today, a bit overdosed to finish off the sample. Much better body today, in the early going, still thins out seriously, and the texture is never great. Some aspects were improved from sitting in the bag after first opening. However, I'm thoroughly not impressed with the YYX. The heavy spiciness covers what is essentially a somewhat traditionally stored tea. The first session was rather merged in characteristic, so it wasn't so easy to taste the shicang nature, but this session, I can taste the spice above and the wet-stored characteristics below pretty distinctly. The previous sessions with the 2003 SM and the Tai Lian showed that there is apparently very little difference between the dry stored and the wet stored. Wet stored is more soily and less spicy, and the slight fruit at the end of the taste or in the aftertaste is a bit stronger than in the dry stored. Anyways, the cooling is pretty good, but strictly back of the mouth, top of the throat, and doesn't go down. Bitterness isn't strong, not productive, and goes away after a few brews. The aroma is about the same as from the first session but a little less strong. This has a better, less astringent, finish than the 2003 SM, but not as good as the Tai Lian. Taste stays in the mouth some. There is a little bit of qi, especially in the early session, or if you come back to it after a break. This tea does numb the tip of the tongue.
But yeah, stuff like the Tai Lian, 2001 Simplified 7542, HeShiHua 2001, 2002 Big Green Tree from Finepuer, etc, are all better teas by a good margin. This is of the calibre of 2003 HeShiHua Jingmai from Best Tea, and things like the 2002 Nannuo White Tips and 1999 Dadugang Yuanbao are slightly better. Definitely one of those teas that are more famous than good.
hmm...so I see this is where you all are hiding. 
I'm not sure I'd agree with you - there's plenty of Wuyi and Hongcha with these characteristics too. I'm not a scientist (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think a bit of heat from roasting or drying gets rid of the pesticide residues. The leaves aren't really subjected to very high temperatures during the roasting.
As to whether these things are a bigger global issue - I think it's down to personal preference. I'd prefer to drink an organic tea that wasn't processed or stored as well as it could be to a tea that had pesticides. Others, I'm sure feel differently. Let's face it though - climate change, famine and droughts are global issues - our preferences in puerh tea don't really register on the scale
Welcome to the chat SilentChaos
Well, global in terms of puerh, poorly stored tea, of which I've had a number of which recently, cause greater revulsion and ill feeling than a bit of pesticide. I threw out those Norbutea samples. I will be determined to enjoy your Zhenyuan (can you say where exactly it was from?) despite the extra dose of pesticide.
And seriously bad processing causes just as much distress. What would I pick? A HLH that's so oolong'd that it tries to hack out your throat in seven brews or so? Or a bit of numbing that's minimized with a bit of washing? Organic nothing, give me the chems! Alar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alar ) or otherwise! At the end of the day, process is everything. Bad organic process leads to unappetizing fruit and veggies. In many areas, it's unreasonable to grow many kinds of nice fruits without pesticide/fungicidal aid. The problem is always excessive, late, or otherwise improper application. It doesn't mean organic couldn't be better, or even alot better, but good organic produce demands very high skill all the way through, if the grower wants to make money.
And seriously bad processing causes just as much distress. What would I pick? A HLH that's so oolong'd that it tries to hack out your throat in seven brews or so? Or a bit of numbing that's minimized with a bit of washing? Organic nothing, give me the chems! Alar ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alar ) or otherwise! At the end of the day, process is everything. Bad organic process leads to unappetizing fruit and veggies. In many areas, it's unreasonable to grow many kinds of nice fruits without pesticide/fungicidal aid. The problem is always excessive, late, or otherwise improper application. It doesn't mean organic couldn't be better, or even alot better, but good organic produce demands very high skill all the way through, if the grower wants to make money.
I guess the point is that we don't really have to choose. We can have well stored, well processed teas that are grown without chemicals. Ancient puerh tea trees have been growing for centuries without chemicals, they're perfectly adapted to their natural environment. The tea that they produce is perfectly healthy for our bodies as well as being lovely to drink.
Pesticides are designed with one aim in mind - to kill. Whether that's a small insect eating part of a leaf, or a human drinking thousands of leaves over many years - I think they're going to cause problems either way.
Whether each one of us is comfortable with consuming these on a regular basis is a matter of personal choice. I think it's important to be aware of it though & to be able to make an informed personal choice for ourselves.
Mengsong Peacock '05 today, used an extra gram. Was very good. More bitterness (both good tasting and productive), and a bit of astringency (which does not last) was the result. However, the tea had moderate to strong qi. A good wood/camphor/smoke taste. Good power in the throat, mostly as feeling. Decent body, good texture, and great energy. Great aroma of moderate strength. Lingers in the mouth some. Late infusions had this really nice milk/buttermilk-wood ash taste. Also in later brews was some fruit in the length of taste. Today was better than the '99 Dadugang, and I suspect I really needed to overdose all along. It boggles the mind that I could buy a tea like this in 2010 for $32. Donghe wants $320, now. Of course, back then the tea was crazy bitter and astringent.
I was thinking about how banzhangy this tea was, and I concluded that one way to tell better stuff for things of that age, seven to eight years old, is how sweet, sensate-wise, it is in latter brews. This tea didn't get sweet, when LBZ of good quality will get sweet. Of course, this depends on where it's from, as some areas are more likely to be sweet at a certain quality than others. I don't know if this is true any, but it's something to keep in mind when I try not-young tea.
I was thinking about how banzhangy this tea was, and I concluded that one way to tell better stuff for things of that age, seven to eight years old, is how sweet, sensate-wise, it is in latter brews. This tea didn't get sweet, when LBZ of good quality will get sweet. Of course, this depends on where it's from, as some areas are more likely to be sweet at a certain quality than others. I don't know if this is true any, but it's something to keep in mind when I try not-young tea.
The 2007 Douji LBZ is already over 300usd
There's not really all that much real stuff that can be said. It blew me away. It's better than EoT Guafengzhai, but I'm not sure how it can't be so, since it seems to be also better than the Sanhetang 2010 Risk One's Life To Pursue as well. This seems to be the best tea made after the 2009's XZH Diangu that I've had
This is a somewhat different GFZ than the YQH or EoT, and more closer to what ChenGuangHeTang was after. It's also dead apparent that the 2007 Sanhetang Yiwu Chawang has leaves like this, doing all the real work that the other Yiwu components doesn't want to do. This tea has a basic almost chocolate nature that the XZH Yiwu has, as well as XZH Youle, and good Lao Man'E of some age. So the bottom of the flavor is relatively different from suggestible fruit/sugarcane/syrup nature of other young GFZ, though it does have some of the more usual elements. The top is pretty much the same as all real GFZ, with that aromatic floral wood quality.
Anyways, this tea is totally awesome for the first three to four brews. It had a great aroma that's complex and changing as it cools. The flavor is much heavier than most Yiwus, in a better way than simpering Mahei, crude Manzhuan, simple Youle. So the taste is at full strength from the higher floral notes, all the way to the bottom, with great complexity in the cup. It was very nicely active in several different ways. Not really one for yuns or huigans. Goes down the throat with authority, though. The qi is moderate to strong and affects the chest and head, also uplifting and warming.
The tea then drops off by a bunch to merely really good. Mostly like how that 2011 Sunsing Mahei is? But GFZ flavor, and much more going on in its simpler sweetness of character (but has some real sweetness). I thought of the Chen's Thousand Year 2007, which also slips into second gear pretty quick. Anyways, the strength of the aroma goes down, the qi drops, and the flavor is simpler and more hollow. The length of taste is still good, and the aftertastes are good and very lasting (astringency in later rounds are stores of flavors). The body and texture does not, however, drop off. There is still good activity as well. It lasts a long time, about 13? brews before it's truly just a bit of sweet water, and I bet I can get more after this rest.
Great session, and if other sessions are like this (well, I've got four more grams!), it could be considered something a sophisticated tea consumer automatically buys if he/she can afford it at all. I can't find this particular tea on sale online, and so I can't be sure if this is the more common ChenYuanHao that's not too expensive, or something that'd cost $300 plus.
This session was a reminder that the 2011 Essence of Tea GFZ is anomalously strong in qi for any Yiwu. I also felt vindicated in the sense that only something like the 2006 Black Wrapper LBZ can contest a tea like this, in its all around capacity. LBZ can have great qi, and great huigans that return fruit, and it can be very sweet when aged, but they tend to really lack durability or much complexity outside of these exciting qualities. GFZ is a much more sound all around tea, and a good one has a very good argument for being better than LBZ. I'm now kind of kicking myself about thinking that the XiShanMeiShao was better than the XZH '07 Yiwu Chawang, although I can't blame myself too much. It was playing dead for the longest time...
This is a somewhat different GFZ than the YQH or EoT, and more closer to what ChenGuangHeTang was after. It's also dead apparent that the 2007 Sanhetang Yiwu Chawang has leaves like this, doing all the real work that the other Yiwu components doesn't want to do. This tea has a basic almost chocolate nature that the XZH Yiwu has, as well as XZH Youle, and good Lao Man'E of some age. So the bottom of the flavor is relatively different from suggestible fruit/sugarcane/syrup nature of other young GFZ, though it does have some of the more usual elements. The top is pretty much the same as all real GFZ, with that aromatic floral wood quality.
Anyways, this tea is totally awesome for the first three to four brews. It had a great aroma that's complex and changing as it cools. The flavor is much heavier than most Yiwus, in a better way than simpering Mahei, crude Manzhuan, simple Youle. So the taste is at full strength from the higher floral notes, all the way to the bottom, with great complexity in the cup. It was very nicely active in several different ways. Not really one for yuns or huigans. Goes down the throat with authority, though. The qi is moderate to strong and affects the chest and head, also uplifting and warming.
The tea then drops off by a bunch to merely really good. Mostly like how that 2011 Sunsing Mahei is? But GFZ flavor, and much more going on in its simpler sweetness of character (but has some real sweetness). I thought of the Chen's Thousand Year 2007, which also slips into second gear pretty quick. Anyways, the strength of the aroma goes down, the qi drops, and the flavor is simpler and more hollow. The length of taste is still good, and the aftertastes are good and very lasting (astringency in later rounds are stores of flavors). The body and texture does not, however, drop off. There is still good activity as well. It lasts a long time, about 13? brews before it's truly just a bit of sweet water, and I bet I can get more after this rest.
Great session, and if other sessions are like this (well, I've got four more grams!), it could be considered something a sophisticated tea consumer automatically buys if he/she can afford it at all. I can't find this particular tea on sale online, and so I can't be sure if this is the more common ChenYuanHao that's not too expensive, or something that'd cost $300 plus.
This session was a reminder that the 2011 Essence of Tea GFZ is anomalously strong in qi for any Yiwu. I also felt vindicated in the sense that only something like the 2006 Black Wrapper LBZ can contest a tea like this, in its all around capacity. LBZ can have great qi, and great huigans that return fruit, and it can be very sweet when aged, but they tend to really lack durability or much complexity outside of these exciting qualities. GFZ is a much more sound all around tea, and a good one has a very good argument for being better than LBZ. I'm now kind of kicking myself about thinking that the XiShanMeiShao was better than the XZH '07 Yiwu Chawang, although I can't blame myself too much. It was playing dead for the longest time...
That cake is not from TW and not from Chen Yuan Hao or any of his associated brands.
Well, there's Guoyun, Chen Yun Hao (doubtful, since that's a factory company), Chen Yuan Hao, Chen Yun Yuan--those are the possible brand name for that GFZ...
Today, I had an unlabeled sample from Tim, and from appearances, I'm guessing that this is the 2006 Yiwu cake for sale at The Mandarin's Tea Room for over $200.
This is a Yiwu camphor cake, much like the BGT (however much Yiwu those actually are), et al. The tea is pretty good for the first few brews and then drops off. I think the main problem is that it's too tippy.
I think the best way to describe it is to think of it like the Dayi Longyin 201 at the start. Subtract the astringency, keep the bitterness. Add lots of body, with some texture. In the aroma and taste, add a fairly feminine set of florals and fruits to the camphor and woods at the top of the taste--think a sort of dry jasmine and apple scent (not the way apples taste, but the way people think apples should smell like). This is a really nice top taste and aroma (which is simpler). However, it's hollow, like the tippy Dayi teas like PuTiYuan 601 or the 0622, and there is only a light flavor on the bottom, with the typical behaviors of Yiwu of that age, suggestions of caramel, for example. After three to four brews, the camphor part stops being so rich and the tea has a hard time being compelling. There is good cooling, and a bit of feel down the throat. Got one light huigan, but the strong bitterness isn't particularly productive. The qi is moderate in the first few brews and drops off. The brews after are okay, but much like that fall '11 Sunsing Mahei in its meekness, and not as friendly. Not really quite as sweet as I'd want it to be.
Is it worthy buying? It's expensive, with better all around teas like the 2006 YQH Gushu Chawang being much cheaper, but purely in terms of a quality camphor experience, I suspect that this may be worth it to some people that values such things and don't mind the lack of durability. I've never had a tea with such an elegant feminine camphor before. I also think that it's a good tea to use for spiking other teas with more of a bottom than a top.
Today, I had an unlabeled sample from Tim, and from appearances, I'm guessing that this is the 2006 Yiwu cake for sale at The Mandarin's Tea Room for over $200.
This is a Yiwu camphor cake, much like the BGT (however much Yiwu those actually are), et al. The tea is pretty good for the first few brews and then drops off. I think the main problem is that it's too tippy.
I think the best way to describe it is to think of it like the Dayi Longyin 201 at the start. Subtract the astringency, keep the bitterness. Add lots of body, with some texture. In the aroma and taste, add a fairly feminine set of florals and fruits to the camphor and woods at the top of the taste--think a sort of dry jasmine and apple scent (not the way apples taste, but the way people think apples should smell like). This is a really nice top taste and aroma (which is simpler). However, it's hollow, like the tippy Dayi teas like PuTiYuan 601 or the 0622, and there is only a light flavor on the bottom, with the typical behaviors of Yiwu of that age, suggestions of caramel, for example. After three to four brews, the camphor part stops being so rich and the tea has a hard time being compelling. There is good cooling, and a bit of feel down the throat. Got one light huigan, but the strong bitterness isn't particularly productive. The qi is moderate in the first few brews and drops off. The brews after are okay, but much like that fall '11 Sunsing Mahei in its meekness, and not as friendly. Not really quite as sweet as I'd want it to be.
Is it worthy buying? It's expensive, with better all around teas like the 2006 YQH Gushu Chawang being much cheaper, but purely in terms of a quality camphor experience, I suspect that this may be worth it to some people that values such things and don't mind the lack of durability. I've never had a tea with such an elegant feminine camphor before. I also think that it's a good tea to use for spiking other teas with more of a bottom than a top.
Yesterday, Yongpinhao 2003. Much better than the first try. A smidge of qi, some complexity in the soup, a little aromatic quality. Not particularly loud in taste, or does well with body/texture. If you can get it cheap, won't be offensive for daily drinking.
Today, '09 YS Manzhuan. Pretty much only has a bit of high pitched flavor and little heartiness. Reasonably smooth, but there's just no there, there.
These teas make that '10 Nannuo Yakou from YS look good.
Today, '09 YS Manzhuan. Pretty much only has a bit of high pitched flavor and little heartiness. Reasonably smooth, but there's just no there, there.
These teas make that '10 Nannuo Yakou from YS look good.
A sample of 2008 Yun Mei from Jas-Tea. I don't drink often enough to really even comment, but I liked this tea pretty well. It is a lighter colored than I was expecting, so I let the second cup steep too long and was bitter, the third cup was much better.