Semogue Boar...I don't get it??

[todot62]

I prefer badger brushes for the feel but I like using my 1305 quite often. I use it mostly with cream and RazoRock soap making lather in a bowl. It literaly explodes in less than a minute, and I have enough lather for three passes. I apply lather by working with the tips almost without pressure and don't use circular motion.

That is a great amount of cream, but quite frankly, if I used that much Proraso, I could get that kind of cream from a toothbrush, and still it doesn't look as thick as what I would get from badger.

 

[Den]

I don't own those models, but I do have a Semogue 1460 and 1470 (same brush/diff. handle) and both are as soft as can be and lather hard soaps very well. It's a small loft at 22/50mm but I have no issues getting enough lather for a 3 pass shave, with touch ups. I plan on picking up a 610 since it has a similar loft.

I also have a 1250 coming, I can't wait to get it and start breaking it in.

 

[todot62]

Boars have a much longer break-in period. They get better and better with use. I also really recommend letting them dry out completely between uses for the first while, as that helps the ends split and get softer. Then use the crap out of it and it will respond by performing better each time you use it. That's been my experience so far.

I thought I understood that, so I bought both of my Semogues with about 50+ shaves on them. It is very obvious that they have split because the ends are thin a fluffy. Perhaps they will get better with age, but that takes me back to my original question...What is it about these little $15 brushes that make people want to go through six months with a crapy brush? There must be a pot of gold at the end, but when I look at the videos, I don't see it. I see a lot of time and effort for decent lather.

I will say that I can tell the difference between my 610 and 620, and I like the 620 better (maybe it's further along on the break in)...They both create a very nice lather when using a Palmolive shave stick (however, I use more product than I would with my badger)...I do like the fell of the Semogues, but again, I don't know if it's worth the effort at this point...

 

[jdto]

Well, I didn't have to wait 6 months for mine. They were good after an initial break-in of a few lathers and now continue to get better. I guess boar brushes just aren't for you.

 

[todot62]

Well, I didn't have to wait 6 months for mine. They were good after an initial break-in of a few lathers and now continue to get better. I guess boar brushes just aren't for you.

Sorry, but "they are not for you, or YMMV" are all cop out answers. I understand that answer with blades because that has to do with how the blade works with YOUR face. However, theoretically I should be able to take the same brush you have with the same technique/soap and produce the same amount of lather. Obviously there are many people that are in the same boat I'm in...so I'm trying to figure out if it's just hype or what.

I understand if the answer is "these Semogues are the best $20-$25 brush you can buy", because they DO feel great, they ARE gorgeous and show amazing quality of craftsmanship; but do they out preform a $50 badger?...idk

BTW...100th Post

 

[craig87c]

I have a bunch of Semogues and a few badgers. There's no real difference to me in the amount or quality of lather, but I use a lot of soap/cream no matter what brush I'm using. YMMV seems to be in full effect here; some people just can't get along with boars/badgers/SE/straights/carts/Arko/new Williams/whatever. If boars don't work for you, no big deal. I'm sure you'll be able to let SBAD run wild while using ony badgers

 

[Rylos]

If they were just hype then I highly doubt they would be so highly regarded in general. They definitely work differently than badger so I think you should stop trying to compare the two. If you enjoy the experience that is a boar brush then use it. If you feel it's too much effort & don't enjoy it then PIF them along & end your frustration. I have a suspicion though that if you took a brand new boar through the break in process that you'd have a much better understanding & appreciation for them. Being that you missed that learning experience by getting ones already broken I believe that you are missing that foundation to really know how to get the most out of your brush.

 

[todot62]

If they were just hype then I highly doubt they would be so highly regarded in general. They definitely work differently than badger so I think you should stop trying to compare the two. If you enjoy the experience that is a boar brush then use it. If you feel it's too much effort & don't enjoy it then PIF them along & end your frustration. I have a suspicion though that if you took a brand new boar through the break in process that you'd have a much better understanding & appreciation for them. Being that you missed that learning experience by getting ones already broken I believe that you are missing that foundation to really know how to get the most out of your brush.

This might be true

 

[johnnypipe]

The one key word I keep seeing pop up here is "time". If that's the issue, just use the badger brushes and be done with it. Plain and simple, boar takes more time, more water, and more soap to make a good lather.

Shaving is my "time" and I thoroughly enjoy every minute of it. Wish I could figure out a way to make it last longer. I use Semogue and Omega boar brushes and my favorites in this order are:

1. Semogue SOC
2. Semogue 1305
3. Semogue 1460
4. Omega 10005

 

[jdto]

Sorry, but "they are not for you, or YMMV" are all cop out answers. I understand that answer with blades because that has to do with how the blade works with YOUR face. However, theoretically I should be able to take the same brush you have with the same technique/soap and produce the same amount of lather. Obviously there are many people that are in the same boat I'm in...so I'm trying to figure out if it's just hype or what.

I understand if the answer is "these Semogues are the best $20-$25 brush you can buy", because they DO feel great, they ARE gorgeous and show amazing quality of craftsmanship; but do they out preform a $50 badger?...idk

BTW...100th Post

It sure doesn't seem like a cop-out answer to me when, from where I'm sitting, you're getting a different experience than me. That sounds exactly like YMMV. Your expectations are not being met by this brush, so that leads me to think maybe it's not for you. That's why there are so many different kinds.

Just because you didn't get the results you expected doesn't mean that others are over-hyping something. It's not an exact science and things are different, even if you use the same brush, same technique and same soap as the next guy.

In the end, just shave. Get the gear you like that works for you and go for it. Life's too short not to enjoy your shaves because you're trying to force something that isn't right for you, just because it works for someone else.

 

[todot62]

I was reading around on the site and came across this thread from The All Important List of Shaving Brushes "Stickies":

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/160824-Boar-Lathering-Video-Challenge

It sums up my feelings exactly. I've not finished reading it yet, but I think anyone who is having the same questions about boars as I do, should get some answers here.

 

[craigruhl]

Boar vs Badger? Guess that is another endless YMMV issue for us wet shavers to discuss. My experience with DE wet shaving started several months ago with an Omega 11047 Banded Boar brush ($13.00 at West Coast Shaving). It took almost a month of daily shaving for this brush to develop into a "lather maker" and the same amount of time for me to develop my lather making skills. It is different between cremes and soaps and between bowl (mug/scuttle) and face lathering. This little brush has become a great brush. A week ago, I received a 636 Omega Silver Tip Badger from WCS for $45.00. Out of the box this brush is a top notch lather maker with cremes so far - I'll try some soaps next week. I have never tried a high end or expensive brush and from the results I have had with the two brushes that I have, I may not. Again, it is a "your results may vary" situation and the variables are almost endless. To someone just starting out on a budget, I would highly recommend the Omega 11047 after the breaking in period.

 

[beginish]

Under different conditions, one brush can outperform another for me. For example, I got really bad lather with Cade soap when using badgers. When I used the 1305, it was awesome. Conversely, I get decent lather from badgers with CF cream, but with the Semogue 1250, not so much. If I can get decent lather, I'm not going to overthink it.

 

[Chefbaze]

I started with a Tweezerman, moved up to a Simpsons Berkeley Best, Colonel Best, And a Rooney 3/1....I bought the Semogue 620 a few weeks ago, and found myself reaching for it so often, I barely used any of my badgers, so I sold them, and bought a straight razor and getting another Semogue with the proceeds. I don't find myself using any more product with my boar, and the lather is just great....I guess its a ymmv thing as usual.

 

[Grumpy_Bottom]

I have found similar results - I usually reach for a TGN badger that I bought off the BST here which I love, since I head and face lather, I really prefer short lofts and thick knots, and this one is 24mm/50mm if memory serves. I also have an Omega big boy 10048 which also face lathers wonderfully for me, it's nice, soft, lathers great, but doesn't quite have enough backbone for me to use it every day. I had received a smaller knot Omega in a PIF a long time ago, and every time I use it, it's a lather hog that seems to just pull soap off my face. It looks broken in, but the smaller knot just doesn't do it for me. Trying to find a good solution, I ordered a Semogue 1438 from Italian Barber, which seemed like a fat knot and short loft. So far, I find it eats lather worse than the small Omega, hopefully it will break in, but this is the first ever time I've had to go back to the Cella 3 times for a 4 pass shave. I'm still not sure why the Omega big boy works so well for me in comparison to the others, but I'm going to keep giving the 1438 more tries and see if it gets better.

 

[Island Dreamer]

I honestly think the often maligned VdH boar brush is a significantly better brush out of the box and from then on than the Semogue 1305 I bought. The VdH is more densely packed, stiffer, holds more water, makes lather more quickly, has no artifical dye that bleeds out for a few cycles, etc. Of the three boar brushes I own, it's clearly better than the Semogue and a little better than the Omega.

There was a recent boar vs. badger poll here and the badgers far outnumbered the boars by three or four to one in spite of what sort of defense boars get in threads like this. These days, I don't use any of my boars in favor of using my badgers and my mixed 404 Vulfix.

 

[mdevine]

Not to beat a dead horse but I do think it is a YMMV thing. It isn't a cop out . I face lathered with Cade and a Semogue 610 this morning. I loaded my brush for 15-20 seconds and had more than enough lather for three passes. I have a Simpson Eagle G3 in Best and would load the brush exactly the same. I prefer smaller boars with about 50 mm loft and they did take months to break in fully. I can understand if you have no interest in a brush that takes so long to perform at its best, as opposed to a badger that is excellent right out of the box. But if push came to shove and I had to choose one or the other, I would pick the boar. I'm glad that I don't have to choose.

Mike

 

[todot62]

I think if you were to take twenty people with various experiences in wet shaving with no bias for a badger or boar, I think you would find that the majority would have an easier time making lather with the badger. I think it would be hard to argue with that. I don't really want this to be a badger vs boar thread. I've said from the beginning that I WANT to love my Semogues...I want to be part of the club. I don't mind taking the extra time and using more product if that's what it takes. I want to know why to bother. I'm asking folks to sell me on the advantage of sticking it out so that I too can become a disciple. That's why I said that YMMV is a cop out answer. That does nothing to help me or anyone else in my position (which I would guess there are many).

I'll give you an example:

I'm a denim head and I'm currently wearing a pair of $250 raw denim Levis. I won't get into the details, but suffice it to say, breaking-in raw denim is a pain. It's time consuming, expensive and requires patients. Many, in fact most, would think that I'm crazy for spending the money and time to go through the process. Why would anyone do it when they can spend $50 and get a pair of comfortable jeans that already look broken-in?

The Payoff:

The quality and craftsmanship of the jeans is amazing, and the denim is woven, and the jeans are crafted in the USA
The jeans fit only ME, move the way I move, and are BY FAR the most comfortable jeans I could wear (after going through the process) This would be consistent with anyone that wanted to go through the process...they would also be the most comfortable jeans you could ever wear, because they fit only you.
The process is half the fun, because over the years, they take on the look of MY experiences with a fade that I created, not someone else

All I'm asking for is why do you LOVE your Semogue? What is the payoff for going through the process? If it's the experience, fine...quality, good...the love of the challenge, great...sell me.

 

[edgerunner]

To me your answer is in your first and last posts. You're satisfied having one TGN brush and one type of jeans. If you're convinced something works better for you than something else, you are not attracted to the 'different' options and to the variety. Even the so many badger brushes are different, and you are not curious about them. When I select to use my Thater I enjoy it for its softness, and I don't even think to compare it to the stiffer SOC 2-band. When I use my Smogue LE, I do it because it's scritchy, stiff, and requires different approach than my luxurious Kent or T&H. I like using a brush exactly for the property that is different than another one. And if my experience with them gives me a sort of challenge and excitement, it adds to the fun.

 

[global_dev]

among the boars i tried, the CVS VDH, a omega 10098, a semogue 11 LE sz1, and a mixed semogue caravela, i enjoyed the 11LE the least and the caravela the most...

i PIF'd the VDH, sold the LE, the omega is nicely broken in, but gets little use), and am holding onto the caravela with a tight grip...

if the LE was closely representative of the majority of semogue knots, i didn't appreciate it...