Question for Handloaders: Which Press to Build Off Of?

[cottontop]

I've had a Lee turret for around 20 years, and am an admitted fanboy. Lee products that I've used simply offer the most bang for buck.

I started with a RCBS single stage, but changed to the Lee turret because I hate messing with the dies.

I am sure that other products are capable of producing more precision rounds, but my marksmanship abilities honestly won't notice the difference.

Some of the Lee items have a fussy reputation among some users, while other users seem to have no issues, I guess it's a YMMV thing.

For what it's worth, my turret press is the one with the cast aluminum base, rather than the cast iron. 20 years with zero repairs, a little lube goes a long way for longevity.

Lee products may work for some, but I am not a big fan. That being said, there are a few Lee products that I use and like. I like the Lee powder dippers, the safety scale, the universal decapper, and their crimp die. Their presses seem cheap and chinzy to me. I do not like their die sets at all. I load for around 15 different cartridges and I have to admit that I load some of them with Lee dies. Usually, they were the only ones available when I was shopping for a die set to load a certain cartridge. I have two sets of Lee dies that happened to come with a couple of rifles I bought. I am just too cheap to replace them. I don't like the way the expander stem is held in the full length sizing die. I have had them slip out from time to time. They also have no knurling on them which makes them feel cheap. When I have a choice, I much prefer to buy a higher quality die such as RCBS, Redding, Lyman, or Hornady. Luckily, I don't have to use the full length sizing die very often. 99% of the time, I will neck size only with a RCBS, Lyman, or Redding neck sizing die. I also have a couple of Hornady caliber specific neck sizers that work great. I have one of the Hornady neck sizers that I can size both my .222 and my .225 with the same die. Lee dies also have no resale value. Just try to sell a set of Lee dies at a gun show and they won't even talk to you. RCBS, Lyman, Redding and Hornady all sell very easily and at good prices; actually, close to what they sell for new.
cottontop

 

[ColtRevolver]

I have RCBS, Pacific, and Lee dies. Never had an issue with Lee dies. They are I have bought in the past 20 years. I never bought any with resale value in mind, because I never have sold any I bought.

 

[Ray-zor]

I am a firearms instructor, veteran, and IDPA competitor. I have been reloading for going on 20 years, and hand loading for around 10 (yes there is a difference). For center fire ammo I have 4 presses. A really old unnamed one, a Lyman turret, a Rock chucker that has a couple of decads on it, a lee pro 1000 and a Dillon 650.

First off, regardless of where you end up, start on a single stage. You really need to learn the feel of each operation and that can not be done on a progressive. I started off with a green set up all around, but now only use the press. Love the rock chucker, but I have been spoiled by the dillon dies. I cast for .380, 9mm, 40S&W, .38'''S&W,44 mag, 45ACP, 45 colt, 30-30, 30 carbine. The dillon dies are the way to go when you are regularly taking them apart to clean lead and lube from the inside.

The Lee is a place to start to learn what you like for the smallest investment, but a good LNL or RC will stay with you and be passed down for the next generation. I love my 650, but it only gets used for my comp ammo: 9mm 40, 38, 45, 223, and 308. Everything else goes through either my RC or lyman.

Last year I loaded over 15k on my 650 with out any complaints (except how slow it is to fill the primers), but that is a big investment for the casual shooter. Lee products work, but everything I own of theirs has been either polished, or chucked up on the lathe prior to use. It works, but there is a reason it is so affordable. RCBS dies have become some of my least favorite over the years, but with care are OK ( just keep a supply of decaping pins around).

These are just my options, and I would never presume to tell a stranger what they must have or that this is the only thing to get. I have always been a big fan of saying don't tell me what you like, tell me why you like it. I used the pro 1000 for a couple of years for my 45. I didn't really like the operation of it. It was pretty jerky and had a pretty cheesy powder drop, but had the easiest primer system to fill based off of all the big names. The biggest draw back is that it was a 3 hole turret. I have become very fond of the 5 hole system. But it did work, and it taught me what I did and didn't like in a progressive.

Just remember that your first is just that, your first. Start slow, get the feel and develop an opinion about what you like. My only firm flag in the ground statement is that lee figured it out with their factory crimp die. I have been converting to dillon dies for everything, however my last station is always the Lee factory crimp die. I really like the carbide sizer ring for the loaded case OD. It took care of that pesky tight gold cup chamber from not digesting all my ammo.

Good luck, hope this helps in some way. When I started there were not any chat rooms except the coffee shop where you could chip off some tribal knowledge from the old timers.

Cheers.

 

[73mountaineer]

Thank you Ray-zor, for that very well thought out & informative post.

 

[nortac]

+1 on everything Ray-zor stated. The conventional wisdom for beginners to reloading is to start with a single stage. You will always have use for a good single stage press even if you eventually will use more than one or several presses. If I seemed to push the Dillon BL550, it was with the intent to save some money (in the long run), that is not that much more complicated in it's stripped down form than a single stage, yet able to be upgraded to a higher production rate press without discarding anything. Finding a used RCBS Rock Chucker would be a very good way to start out and the Dillon BL550 a great 2nd press if and when the need arises.

 

[accunlmtd]

+1 on everything Ray-zor stated. The conventional wisdom for beginners to reloading is to start with a single stage. You will always have use for a good single stage press even if you eventually will use more than one or several presses. If I seemed to push the Dillon BL550, it was with the intent to save some money (in the long run), that is not that much more complicated in it's stripped down form than a single stage, yet able to be upgraded to a higher production rate press without discarding anything. Finding a used RCBS Rock Chucker would be a very good way to start out and the Dillon BL550 a great 2nd press if and when the need arises.

+99999999
there is always a need for a good single stage press.

 

[cottontop]

I have RCBS, Pacific, and Lee dies. Never had an issue with Lee dies. They are I have bought in the past 20 years. I never bought any with resale value in mind, because I never have sold any I bought.

The fact that no dealer at a gun show will give you anything for them speaks of their low quality.
cottontop

 

[73mountaineer]

The fact that no dealer at a gun show will give you anything for them speaks of their low quality.
cottontop

Lack of demand is not necessarily indicative of quality, in my experience. Lower price = more people already have them = less demand. Having done a ton of research and review reading at this point, the Lee Classic single stage is considered by many (not all) as the best overall single stage at any price. Looking at the mechanics of a single stage, they are all pretty much the same animal with different stripes. Where they seem to differ is only in the details. The single biggest complaint on the Rock Chucker seems to be the primer capture system. On the Hornady, pretty much the same. On the Lee Classic, which simply drops the spent primer down through the ram into a tube, capturing it or funneling it into a trash can, there aren't any such complaints. It just works. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this isn't just the standard system for all single stage presses.

If anyone can enlighten me as to specific reasons why the Lee Classic is inferior, please speak up. I was all set to pull the trigger on the RCBS or Hornady until I tried to objectively evaluate if I was being snobbish by excluding the Lee Classic. I think I was. The only complaints against the RCBS & Hornady are seemingly solved by the Lee. I was literally a couple of clicks away from buying the RCBS, now I am leaning heavily toward the Lee. Cast iron, made in the USA, less than $100 (with coupon from Midway), and the best primer capture system among the 3...what am I missing? Very few moving parts to break on a single stage, right?

 

[cottontop]

Lack of demand is not necessarily indicative of quality, in my experience. Lower price = more people already have them = less demand. Having done a ton of research and review reading at this point, the Lee Classic single stage is considered by many (not all) as the best overall single stage at any price. Looking at the mechanics of a single stage, they are all pretty much the same animal with different stripes. Where they seem to differ is only in the details. The single biggest complaint on the Rock Chucker seems to be the primer capture system. On the Hornady, pretty much the same. On the Lee Classic, which simply drops the spent primer down through the ram into a tube, capturing it or funneling it into a trash can, there aren't any such complaints. It just works. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this isn't just the standard system for all single stage presses.

If anyone can enlighten me as to specific reasons why the Lee Classic is inferior, please speak up. I was all set to pull the trigger on the RCBS or Hornady until I tried to objectively evaluate if I was being snobbish by excluding the Lee Classic. I think I was. The only complaints against the RCBS & Hornady are seemingly solved by the Lee. I was literally a couple of clicks away from buying the RCBS, now I am leaning heavily toward the Lee. Cast iron, made in the USA, less than $100 (with coupon from Midway), and the best primer capture system among the 3...what am I missing? Very few moving parts to break on a single stage, right?

Hmm, funny thing, but one will have no trouble selling RCBS, Lyman, or Redding dies at a gun show. I guess your "demand" theory only applies to Lee dies. As far as the press goes; try case forming, and then you'll know.
cottontop

 

[nortac]

There is a reason that the Lee costs less. The others are much more substantial.

 

[cottontop]

There is a reason that the Lee costs less. The others are much more substantial.

Thank you.
cottontop

 

[73mountaineer]

Hmm, funny thing, but one will have no trouble selling RCBS, Lyman, or Redding dies at a gun show. I guess your "demand" theory only applies to Lee dies. As far as the press goes; try case forming, and then you'll know.
cottontop

I actually didn't say a single word about dies. I don't know squat about who makes the best dies because that has nothing to do with decision of what press to get. It is very possible that Lee dies are inferior, but what specifically is about them that people don't like?

My entire post was speaking entirely about the comparison between single stage presses and the fact that they each seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. I was only trying to expand on the idea that resale potential and/or demand are directly indicative of quality. I don't agree that it is always accurate to assume that there is a correlation. Simply stating that more people want to buy something so it is better doesn't make good sense.

It isn't "my" demand theory, it is how the world works when it comes to many, many things; people want to buy many things that aren't in any way superior to others, and oftentimes are actually inferior. Stick a higher price tag on something and a large portion of the population will automatically assume it is higher quality. Put a low price tag on the same item and they will assume it is cheaply made junk.

I'm obviously no longer talking specifically about any reloading equipment, just speaking in generalities concerning any product.

The funny thing is that so many people recommend the Rock Chucker Supreme, but among a comparable number of actual buyer reviews, it is very often rated lower than the Lee Classic Cast. More often than not the biggest complaint about the Rock Chucker is the primer capture system it uses. Conversely, the Lee has no such complaints. I was just trying to figure out if, beyond that detail, there is a specific advantage in the construction quality or operation of the press. What is really weird is that almost no one ever seems to mention any of the other RCBS presses. Every once in a while one of them will come up, but not often. That strikes me as odd.

 

[DovoNewb]

I'm cheap, and only reload precision rounds anyways....

I have a Lee Classic press, but I have a Forster micrometer seating die. Because of the alleged quality or the bigger tolerances of the press and it's working parts compared to any big name, I find I sometimes have to pull twice to seat to my liking, but I usually seat longer to begin with, and at the second go ease it in the last 1 or 2 thousandths that I need.

I'm happy with what I have, I've been reloading for about 2 years now.

 

[cottontop]

I actually didn't say a single word about dies. I don't know squat about who makes the best dies because that has nothing to do with decision of what press to get. It is very possible that Lee dies are inferior, but what specifically is about them that people don't like?

My entire post was speaking entirely about the comparison between single stage presses and the fact that they each seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. I was only trying to expand on the idea that resale potential and/or demand are directly indicative of quality. I don't agree that it is always accurate to assume that there is a correlation. Simply stating that more people want to buy something so it is better doesn't make good sense.

It isn't "my" demand theory, it is how the world works when it comes to many, many things; people want to buy many things that aren't in any way superior to others, and oftentimes are actually inferior. Stick a higher price tag on something and a large portion of the population will automatically assume it is higher quality. Put a low price tag on the same item and they will assume it is cheaply made junk.

I'm obviously no longer talking specifically about any reloading equipment, just speaking in generalities concerning any product.

The funny thing is that so many people recommend the Rock Chucker Supreme, but among a comparable number of actual buyer reviews, it is very often rated lower than the Lee Classic Cast. More often than not the biggest complaint about the Rock Chucker is the primer capture system it uses. Conversely, the Lee has no such complaints. I was just trying to figure out if, beyond that detail, there is a specific advantage in the construction quality or operation of the press. What is really weird is that almost no one ever seems to mention any of the other RCBS presses. Every once in a while one of them will come up, but not often. That strikes me as odd.

Post number 43 explains it. BTW, I have owned other RCBS presses over the years. They are ok as are most presses of other makes, including Lee. But, when I think single stage press, I am thinking of a press that can do it ALL. If you are just going to reload some ammo; i.e., resize and seat the bullets, then most any press will do. When it comes to serious case forming meaning using forming dies and full length sizing dies to sometimes substantially reduce case neck size in order to make less common brass out of more common brass, as I often do, then a beefy press such as the Rock Chucker is not only desirable, but necessary. The only press that will work better is a hydraulic press
that costs a lot more money.
cottontop

 

[nortac]

For those who don't know, RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage. Back in the day when there were not a lot of varmint bullets available, serious varminters had to swage jacketed bullets to reload their varmint cartridges. This was an operation that required a lot of mechanical leverage, not unlike case forming, and thus was born the Rock Chucker press. As far as the primer catcher issue, that is a fair complaint, as I had one long ago, but to me, that is a secondary issue. To me, the sturdiness and utility of a solidly built press far outweighs that minor imperfection. YMMV.

 

[73mountaineer]

Post number 43 explains it. BTW, I have owned other RCBS presses over the years. They are ok as are most presses of other makes, including Lee. But, when I think single stage press, I am thinking of a press that can do it ALL. If you are just going to reload some ammo; i.e., resize and seat the bullets, then most any press will do. When it comes to serious case forming meaning using forming dies and full length sizing dies to sometimes substantially reduce case neck size in order to make less common brass out of more common brass, as I often do, then a beefy press such as the Rock Chucker is not only desirable, but necessary. The only press that will work better is a hydraulic press
that costs a lot more money.
cottontop

Yeah, I don't foresee that kind of need, anytime in the immediate future anyway. For me, it would likely be strictly .45ACP, 9mm, .380ACP and maybe .223 & .270 if I decide to load rifle rounds also. I do find case forming fascinating though, something that must require a good bit of skill.

For those who don't know, RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage. Back in the day when there were not a lot of varmint bullets available, serious varminters had to swage jacketed bullets to reload their varmint cartridges. This was an operation that required a lot of mechanical leverage, not unlike case forming, and thus was born the Rock Chucker press. As far as the primer catcher issue, that is a fair complaint, as I had one long ago, but to me, that is a secondary issue. To me, the sturdiness and utility of a solidly built press far outweighs that minor imperfection. YMMV.

I actually had wondered what RCBS stood for; thank you for that bit of trivia.

 

[OkieDave]

I will agree to the complaints about the primer catch system on the Rock Chucker.

I will also state that I solved it conclusively with a 3"x5" index card folded appropriately to hold the catcher against the ram. Annoying? Yes. Should I have to resort to such methods on a precision instrument? Absolutely not.

But if that's my biggest complaint....

 

[Ray-zor]

Never felt good about the flex of the lee presses. Their small ram plus the flex of the body tend to make me feel less than confident of the consistency of my loaded babies. Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends use those same lee presses. I just prefer the non feed back of the RC. Maybe it is the generations of old timers feeding it down my throat, but it just feels right. Did some 308, 30 carb, and 45 colt on mine this week. Forgot how much I prefer my 650, but it still felt like shaking hands with an old friend. Some day I will stop experimenting with load development, and just get progressive with them all. Till then, happy shaking. Just make sure your choices are based on what you want and feel, not what you get told...

 

[73mountaineer]

Never felt good about the flex of the lee presses. Their small ram plus the flex of the body tend to make me feel less than confident of the consistency of my loaded babies. Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends use those same lee presses. I just prefer the non feed back of the RC. Maybe it is the generations of old timers feeding it down my throat, but it just feels right. Did some 308, 30 carb, and 45 colt on mine this week. Forgot how much I prefer my 650, but it still felt like shaking hands with an old friend. Some day I will stop experimenting with load development, and just get progressive with them all. Till then, happy shaking. Just make sure your choices are based on what you want and feel, not what you get told...

Doesn't the Lee Classic Cast press have one of the largest rams in the category? I thought it did, but I admittedly haven't written down the specs on all of them and compared them, just going on statements read elsewhere.

At any rate, I have been given some great options by all of the folks who have contributed here, and I don't think i will go wrong with any of them.

Just make sure your choices are based on what you want and feel, not what you get told...

That's the best advice, in many things. Thank you.

 

[Ray-zor]

By the way, you need to tell us what you end up doing. What you got, where you got it, and why you chose that set up. Once you get established also, need to share your pet loads. Thats the best part about all of this.