My Soap Making Adventure

[MilfordNJGuy]

Benjamin,

The meltpoint of Stearic Acid is approx. 156 degrees Fahrenheit. You are adding that to other oils so you have a blend of oils and the meltpoint of your oil phase is then based upon an average of that blend. In my case the combination of oils I use does lower the meltpoint. But, and this is an important but, Stearic Acid is still your highest melting "oil". Why would you want to try and saponify an ingredient at a temperature that is below its meltpoint? Remember, I said think outside the box!

Interesting David, I know a lot of the more expensive soaps from Europe are cold process with extensive aging and most shave soaps here in the USA are hot process so I'm excited to see your multi stage soap. I have to get very hot to melt my stearic acid so I'm not sure how you stay so cool, it's interesting. Thanks for sharing!

 

[dkeester]

You are adding that to other oils so you have a blend of oils and the meltpoint of your oil phase is then based upon an average of that blend. In my case the combination of oils I use does lower the meltpoint. But, and this is an important but, Stearic Acid is still your highest melting "oil".

This is an interesting comment. Is there some sort of equation or formula (that you or anyone else is willing to share) that would help calculate the meltpoint based on the ratio of "oils" present in the blend?

 

[rockclimber]

This is an interesting comment. Is there some sort of equation or formula (that you or anyone else is willing to share) that would help calculate the meltpoint based on the ratio of "oils" present in the blend?

I think what David is saying is that by dumping lye at a temperature below the melt point of stearic the other oils are saponified first (coconut oil, tallow, Avocado Oil, etc) leaving the stearic acid as the primary superfat left over at the end of saponification thus giving him a very specific superfat.
See, when I throw the lye in (maybe I shouldn't say throw ) I am left with my 5% superfat but it is a mixture of all my butters, oils, stearic and tallow. I cannot control what is left over as a superfat. David is controlling exactly what he wants to saponify out and what he wants to leave behind as a superfat. Very smart chemistry work over there at stonecottagesoapworks

Or I could be completely wrong!

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Benjamin,

You are right! You are completely wrong! LOL

Lye is not able to be picky and choosy. I saponifies whatever it comes in contact with no matter when it is added to a batch. Some of it happens quickly the the rest is a matter of time. If a molecule of lye has done it's job then it is no longer there leaving other molecules to perform that task...that is, when they come in contact with molecules of fatty acids! There are many molecules of lye available in the beginning of the process and less as time goes on. That is why the process of saponification takes hours and days to complete.

In cosmetic chemistry, formulas are often performed in phases because of what happens during the formulation. In the case of saponification, the fatty acid makeup determines the kind and quality of soap that is made and especially the consistency! The higher on the chain the fatty acid is usually the harder the soap made from it becomes. If you are trying to control the consistency of a soap batch then you may wish to add the higher chain fatty acids toward the end of the process so that the addition of these higher chain acids doesn't speed up the process too quickly and you can easily pour the batch into the mold. So for me, this approach is used to be able to get the batch to the right consistency to be able to pour it in a pretty short amount of time. Remember, I am doing shaving soap using what is called "cold-process" meaning no heat is used after the lye is added to the formula.

Thanks for the compliment! Yes, I am smart at times and I always try to do my best for my business! That's my goal!

I think what David is saying is that by dumping lye at a temperature below the melt point of stearic the other oils are saponified first (coconut oil, tallow, Avocado Oil, etc) leaving the stearic acid as the primary superfat left over at the end of saponification thus giving him a very specific superfat.
See, when I throw the lye in (maybe I shouldn't say throw ) I am left with my 5% superfat but it is a mixture of all my butters, oils, stearic and tallow. I cannot control what is left over as a superfat. David is controlling exactly what he wants to saponify out and what he wants to leave behind as a superfat. Very smart chemistry work over there at stonecottagesoapworks

Or I could be completely wrong!

 

[rockclimber]

LOL, well I sort of understand the cooking in phases method from YouTube but I'm still slightly confused. Give me a few more months and I'll understand what your saying . From what I have seen most of the CP soapers doing it in stages do so for color... doing batches for consistently makes sense.

Today I am cooking Tallow beta 1.1 with 70% KOH. The scent will be "The Perfect Man" a Bleu de Chanel clone with notes of Japanese grapefruit, bergamot, and lemon; followed by middle notes of peppercorn, ginger, jasmine, aquatic marine notes, and a hint of peppermint; sitting on base notes of natural patchouli, cedar, vetiver, labdanum, and frankincense.

 

[rockclimber]

Melted, time to pour the lye solution.

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Benjamin,

Thanks for posting more experiments! It's helpful to see what other combinations look like and how you are formulating it. Eager to see the finished product! Thanks!

David... In case you haven't figured it out, I'm not like other soap makers!

 

[rockclimber]

This time I went ahead and poured into the molds at 30 minutes into the cook even though the soap still zaps. I let it cool down to 170 before pouring the scent. I'll let it sit 24-48 hours and pop out of the molds to cure for a few weeks. Pics in 24-48 hours... The house really smells like wonderful soap, great air freshener!

 

[rockclimber]

The scent fragrance altered the color quit a bit. I pressed some of the pucks and left others in their natural state. I will take them out of the mold in another 24 hours, the 70% KOH is very soft.

 

[rockclimber]

Pulled from the molds just now and they look a little... Grainy, like grains of sand. I should have cooked it a little longer but the soap now passes the zap test.

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Very unusual looking! Can't wait to see these lather!

 

[dangerousdon]

[MENTION=108263]rockclimber[/MENTION] First and foremost...this is a great thread. I have seen it a couple of times but this morning I finally read it...I will be subscribing. Also, you have received a lot of interest in this topic in a relatively short period of time.

Second...I have not made any soaps yet. I keep reading blogs and watching videos and reading threads like yours, but I haven't made a soap yet. So if my questions sound ignorant...please excuse me. I plan on to and I am collecting ingredients and equipment a little at a time so as to not give the missus sticker shock.

I know in the beginning you mentioned that you are using a crock pot and have the setting on high. That batch you said was overcooked and the little I know and from your pictures I have to agree. So I think you went to a shorter cook time and it started to work out for you. Have you thought about using low heat for a longer cook time? I don't know if it makes a difference or if it is even possible.

Basically I am asking if there is a difference between high heat and short cook times or low heat and longer cook times. If you have addressed this already and I missed it along the line I apologize. Let me know what you think.

 

[rockclimber]

Great question [MENTION=93173]dangerousdon[/MENTION]
I thought about cooking on lower heat for my next batch so the soap saponifies but doesn't over cook. I've also wanted to try a full CP and then let it cure for 6 weeks, only then will I know which process is best for me and my setup.

 

[rockclimber]

Very unusual looking! Can't wait to see these lather!

Yes, very interesting another 20 minutes in the cooker and it would have hit the right consistency. The formula lathers very easily.

 

[DCRIII]

Your soap looks like a great preformer! How do you like "The Perfect Man" fragrance? I thought about getting that one.
The one's I got are "4 Leaf Clover", "Fresh Cut Grass", "Green Irish", "Pheromones", "Wild Wild West", and "Black Ops".
I haven't used the "4 Leaf Clover" or "Black Ops" yet, but others smell fantastic. All scent I gat from Nature's Garden.

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Nice!!

 

[rockclimber]

[MENTION=93996]DCRIII[/MENTION] Thank you so much for the website recommendation, they really are amazing! I appreciate the help. As to the Bleu de Chanel... my wife absolutely loves it but she is a big fan of Bleu de Chanel and pretty much any Chanel product in general. I enjoy the cologne scent but I myself am more of a traditionalist when it comes to shave soap scents and would rather save the cologne scents for my cologne or aftershave so the scents don't clash. This scent is just different enough from authentic Bleu de Chanel that they would likely clash if put together. I would give it an 8/10 and at 1oz per pound is on the strong side, I could probably get away with .75/pound.

I also got the wild wild west and think it smells fantastic in the bottle, I can't wait to cook a batch with it. Very leathery, very manly. I can see me wearing it on the weekend while I grab an axe and split fire wood in the back yard.

The lather at 50% stearic acid has a lot of staying power. Here is the sample puck over an hour later.

 

[DCRIII]

You're welcome for the site recommendation.
The Wild Wild West goes real well with English Leather aftershave or The Bootleggers Eldorado aftershave.
1 ounce of the Wild Wild West per pound of soap would be way too strong IMHO. I used 2 ounces for the batch I recently made. Not counting the water a lye weight, it had 48 ounces of oils and 2 ounce of the fragrance oils was nearly too much!
Your lather looks like it holds up pretty good.

[MENTION=93996]DCRIII[/MENTION] Thank you so much for the website recommendation, they really are amazing! I appreciate the help. As to the Bleu de Chanel... my wife absolutely loves it but she is a big fan of Bleu de Chanel and pretty much any Chanel product in general. I enjoy the cologne scent but I myself am more of a traditionalist when it comes to shave soap scents and would rather save the cologne scents for my cologne or aftershave so the scents don't clash. This scent is just different enough from authentic Bleu de Chanel that they would likely clash if put together. I would give it an 8/10 and at 1oz per pound is on the strong side, I could probably get away with .75/pound.

I also got the wild wild west and think it smells fantastic in the bottle, I can't wait to cook a batch with it. Very leathery, very manly. I can see me wearing it on the weekend while I grab an axe and split fire wood in the back yard.

The lather at 50% stearic acid has a lot of staying power. Here is the sample puck over an hour later.
View attachment 660427

 

[dfoulk]

This thread is definitely a great read and a fun one to follow. I just wish we could hear some reviews on the soaps. I know it's against the rules here so I'm not asking for them but it does feel like something's missing every time I see a great lather with no review.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I'm definitely enjoying this thread.

 

[dabrock]

Good times, making shaving soap is a blast!

From my understanding, lanolin will not saponify, so regardless of where you add it, it will always be a 'super fat'.

Keep it up.

Despite the mislabeling of it as "wool fat" is a wax so it won't saponify and it's not technically a "super fat" either, for the same reason, but certainly adds to moisturizing and a wonderful face feel. I have added liquid lanolin to lathers but it does tend to kill the lather a bit. Any soapers here that know what a vegan equivalent to lanolin might be? Just out of curiosity as I'm not vegan but I was wondering since both bees wax and lanolin would tend to make something non-vegan but I'm guessing bees wax is still considered vegetarian.