I don't disagree with any of the advice given, but that part of your neck may just be particularly sensitive. I get redness there as well, and have for a long time, even though it doesn't feel irritated. But it's gotten better as my technique has improved.
Lots of redness on neck- any ideas why?
- Thread starter Proper Irish
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- #23
Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. I’ll try to follow all the advice above.
After reading thru everything-
1. I will map out grain. I've had a beard most of my adult life and haven’t done too much cartridge shaving.
When I have, I always did down strokes on the neck. I guess I never learned how to shave properly.
I‘ve never used upstrokes until I started this DE shaving journey and saw everyone in the videos doing it.
Thats one variable.
2. Products. I’ll try the cremo next time and see if that works better. I’ll also apply Proraso & Cella without shaving and see if there’s a reaction to those products.
That’s another variable.
3. Post shave, I just splash with cold water, lightly pat dry with towel then applied Afta or Nivea shave balm. I’ve used them both in the past so I don’t think it’s them.
Guess that could still be a possibility though.
4. Work on technique.
Thanks again for all the suggestions and guidance!
After reading thru everything-
1. I will map out grain. I've had a beard most of my adult life and haven’t done too much cartridge shaving.
When I have, I always did down strokes on the neck. I guess I never learned how to shave properly.
I‘ve never used upstrokes until I started this DE shaving journey and saw everyone in the videos doing it.
Thats one variable.
2. Products. I’ll try the cremo next time and see if that works better. I’ll also apply Proraso & Cella without shaving and see if there’s a reaction to those products.
That’s another variable.
3. Post shave, I just splash with cold water, lightly pat dry with towel then applied Afta or Nivea shave balm. I’ve used them both in the past so I don’t think it’s them.
Guess that could still be a possibility though.
4. Work on technique.
Thanks again for all the suggestions and guidance!
Ask me and I say a couple of things:
1. Too much pressure.
2. Too long strokes which cause dragging/skipping and end with razor burn.
3. No. 1 & 2 perhaps in combination with some sort of reaction to either your soap or perhaps the brush. Don't underestimate the reaction to animal hair. Lots of people get a reaction of some sort.
The good news: you'll figure it out. Good luck!
1. Too much pressure.
2. Too long strokes which cause dragging/skipping and end with razor burn.
3. No. 1 & 2 perhaps in combination with some sort of reaction to either your soap or perhaps the brush. Don't underestimate the reaction to animal hair. Lots of people get a reaction of some sort.
The good news: you'll figure it out. Good luck!
There is NOTHING wrong with doing a 1 pass, WTG (with the grain, not necessarily all down stroke) shaves.
If and when I shave on a daily basis, this is my routine. As @J0824 said, short, quick strokes are your friend. That's also my method.
Provided there are no ingredient issues or technique issues, it will leave a perfect looking shave. Only you will be able to tell it's not a BBS.
On the flip side, if you chase a BBS and get irritation, everyone can tell you had a bad shave.
Don't try to emulate anyone's shave technique on YouTube, unless it's you. Everyone's face is different.
If and when I shave on a daily basis, this is my routine. As @J0824 said, short, quick strokes are your friend. That's also my method.
Provided there are no ingredient issues or technique issues, it will leave a perfect looking shave. Only you will be able to tell it's not a BBS.
On the flip side, if you chase a BBS and get irritation, everyone can tell you had a bad shave.
Don't try to emulate anyone's shave technique on YouTube, unless it's you. Everyone's face is different.
Others may have already pointed this out, but against the grain is not necessarily equivalent to upstrokes and you definitely should not shave against the grain. Stop shaving for a couple of days to give your skin a chance to heal. After your beard has grown out a bit, run your hands up and down, left and right and diagonally across your neck area. The direction that feels the roughest is against the grain. Do not shave in that direction.
Also, you may have not have used a brush with Cremo, but used one with Cella and Proraso. I would go back to doing what you did with Cremo for a while. Nevertheless, if you shave an already irritated area, it will just get worse.
Proraso green (but not red) has menthol in it, which some get a reaction from.
Cella red (but not green) is a tallow-based soap, which some get a reaction from.
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- #28
Okay, I think I got a bead on it.
I applied both the Proraso and Cella (separately of course) without shaving to see if I had a reaction:
- No reaction.
(I’m quite happy about that as I really like the smell of both of these).
I let my hair grow out on my face & neck to see the grain pattern and sure enough, I was shaving against the grain on my neck with the upstrokes.
My neck hair grows ”downward”, with the exception of the areas on either side of my Adam’s apple which grow sort of diagonal.
I did a shave tonight with all downstrokes on my neck and no redness
I also payed close attention to how much pressure I was using and made sure to use a light touch.
I did try to do a diagonal pass on one side of my Adam’s apple (where the hair grows diagonally) and was rewarded with my first cut. A nice little slice, I won’t be trying that again lol. The other side, I just used down strokes like I had on the rest of my neck and no problems.
One other thing I did different was shaving with cold water instead of hot water. I’ve read a number of people say they prefer it, some of which are self-proclaimed “sensitive skin” types.
I don’t know if it’s any better or if it makes a difference, but it’s nice to know I can get a good shave with cold water. I can see doing that in the summer.
Thank’s again to everyone for the help and the suggestions!
I applied both the Proraso and Cella (separately of course) without shaving to see if I had a reaction:
- No reaction.
(I’m quite happy about that as I really like the smell of both of these).
I let my hair grow out on my face & neck to see the grain pattern and sure enough, I was shaving against the grain on my neck with the upstrokes.
My neck hair grows ”downward”, with the exception of the areas on either side of my Adam’s apple which grow sort of diagonal.
I did a shave tonight with all downstrokes on my neck and no redness
I also payed close attention to how much pressure I was using and made sure to use a light touch.
I did try to do a diagonal pass on one side of my Adam’s apple (where the hair grows diagonally) and was rewarded with my first cut. A nice little slice, I won’t be trying that again lol. The other side, I just used down strokes like I had on the rest of my neck and no problems.
One other thing I did different was shaving with cold water instead of hot water. I’ve read a number of people say they prefer it, some of which are self-proclaimed “sensitive skin” types.
I don’t know if it’s any better or if it makes a difference, but it’s nice to know I can get a good shave with cold water. I can see doing that in the summer.
Thank’s again to everyone for the help and the suggestions!
You're doing great, @Proper Irish, that is wonderful to hear! Thank you for sharing. That is a huge improvement and I hope you recognize your achievement and give yourself credit.
It took me a long time to get my neck under control. I realized that below my adam's apple, my hair grows up, above it it mostly grows down. To the sides of my esophagus, it is basically a swirl. And I still don't know how to regularly get the hinge of my jaw to be BBS and I've been trying for about three years. So you're doing really well!
It took me a long time to get my neck under control. I realized that below my adam's apple, my hair grows up, above it it mostly grows down. To the sides of my esophagus, it is basically a swirl. And I still don't know how to regularly get the hinge of my jaw to be BBS and I've been trying for about three years. So you're doing really well!
Which blade are you using? I agree what the others have said, if you want to change variables then it's better to do that when you have more experience, else you'll be confused. For now stick to one soap and one blade, maybe your face doesn't like that blade so you'll need to use some other blade. I can recommend Astra SP's, Permasharps, Wizamets, Nacets. These blades are very smooth and forgiving. When I started DE shaving I used the Derby blade which was a horrible blade, I switched to the Astra SP's and it made a huge difference.
Proraso creams aren't hard to lather IMHO great for beginners but if your lather is too watery it might affect your whole shave in a negative way. Once you figure the lathering out, focus on shaving technique. In my early period I used the 34C HD for every shave, then I decided to get a different razor I got the Fatip open comb. I hated it, I couldn't use it in the same way as the 34C HD so I shelved it for a while. Couple months later I gave it an another try and I really took my time, used a different angle and man now the Fatip OC is my favorite razor. The funny thing was that I thought that the Fatip was just a crappy razor or too aggressive, but it wasn't the razor it was me.
If you know how to make good lather, you'll be able to lather up any soap or cream. If you develop good shaving techniques you can shave with any razor and blade possible. I prefer to use hot water, even in the summer. IMHO cold shaves do work but I find them to be rougher.
You can do an XTG on the neck area but you have to do it slowly with short strokes.
Proraso creams aren't hard to lather IMHO great for beginners but if your lather is too watery it might affect your whole shave in a negative way. Once you figure the lathering out, focus on shaving technique. In my early period I used the 34C HD for every shave, then I decided to get a different razor I got the Fatip open comb. I hated it, I couldn't use it in the same way as the 34C HD so I shelved it for a while. Couple months later I gave it an another try and I really took my time, used a different angle and man now the Fatip OC is my favorite razor. The funny thing was that I thought that the Fatip was just a crappy razor or too aggressive, but it wasn't the razor it was me.
If you know how to make good lather, you'll be able to lather up any soap or cream. If you develop good shaving techniques you can shave with any razor and blade possible. I prefer to use hot water, even in the summer. IMHO cold shaves do work but I find them to be rougher.
You can do an XTG on the neck area but you have to do it slowly with short strokes.
Okay, I think I got a bead on it.
I applied both the Proraso and Cella (separately of course) without shaving to see if I had a reaction:
- No reaction.
(I’m quite happy about that as I really like the smell of both of these).
I let my hair grow out on my face & neck to see the grain pattern and sure enough, I was shaving against the grain on my neck with the upstrokes.
My neck hair grows ”downward”, with the exception of the areas on either side of my Adam’s apple which grow sort of diagonal.
I did a shave tonight with all downstrokes on my neck and no redness
I also payed close attention to how much pressure I was using and made sure to use a light touch.
I did try to do a diagonal pass on one side of my Adam’s apple (where the hair grows diagonally) and was rewarded with my first cut. A nice little slice, I won’t be trying that again lol. The other side, I just used down strokes like I had on the rest of my neck and no problems.
One other thing I did different was shaving with cold water instead of hot water. I’ve read a number of people say they prefer it, some of which are self-proclaimed “sensitive skin” types.
I don’t know if it’s any better or if it makes a difference, but it’s nice to know I can get a good shave with cold water. I can see doing that in the summer.
Thank’s again to everyone for the help and the suggestions!
That is some great testing and big improvements, good for you, @Proper Irish!
One other thing I'd suggest - use more soap! Load it like you hate it! That's great advice that took me too long to hear. I was using way too little product, especially with proraso, and was getting a good volume of lather, but it wasn't at all slick. Using way more soap and only adding water bit by bit got me to a slick and protective lather. Soap is cheap, your face is not, load it up!
You have received a lot of great advice so far and you seem to be taking it in rather well.
A reaction to the red Cella soap is well documented on this site, perform a search using “Cella burn” and see for yourself. Out of probably two dozen shave soaps I’ve tried over the years only two burned me: red Cella and the La Toja shave stick (discontinued). Both smelled and performed great, but unfortunately reacted with my skin.
That being said, my skin never got as red as yours. The fact that your redness is located on a specific spot and not the entire area points more to a mechanical irritation rather than chemical. As others have said, watch your razor angle and pressure, and stick to shaving with the grain in that area.
Don’t strive for perfection right away, and settle for simple presentable shaves for the first few months. Don’t overthink it because the most important factor is establishing muscle memory. Once that is established one can make due with pretty much anything.
A reaction to the red Cella soap is well documented on this site, perform a search using “Cella burn” and see for yourself. Out of probably two dozen shave soaps I’ve tried over the years only two burned me: red Cella and the La Toja shave stick (discontinued). Both smelled and performed great, but unfortunately reacted with my skin.
That being said, my skin never got as red as yours. The fact that your redness is located on a specific spot and not the entire area points more to a mechanical irritation rather than chemical. As others have said, watch your razor angle and pressure, and stick to shaving with the grain in that area.
Don’t strive for perfection right away, and settle for simple presentable shaves for the first few months. Don’t overthink it because the most important factor is establishing muscle memory. Once that is established one can make due with pretty much anything.
You’ve a mountain of information in this thread to look at. Still, I’ll add my $0.02:
The red area, is it your “problem area”? We all have them, where the beard grows in wild patterns. My initial tendency was to go over these areas multiple times from all angles, adding pressure to the razor as I went. The right side of my neck under the jawline often looked like uncooked meat when I was finished. My solution was to stop trying for BBS multiple days in a row; reserve that for special occasions. A DFS shave is perfectly adequate for every day shaves.
My routine is two passes, the first North to South, the second South to North. I rinse and lather between passes. No pressure on the razor (DE razor, anyway). Slow, short strokes. Stretch the skin where needed (I need it on my 60 year old neck). Just enjoy your shave.
Aside from this, blades selection is crucial. We are all different. The wrong blade will tear you apart. I can’t use a super sharp blade (Feather, Nacet, etc.), but have great results with Astra SP and Lab Blues. I also toss my blades after three shaves. As the coating wears off, the blades get sharper. Sharper is not necessitating better for sensitive skin.
Cheers!
The red area, is it your “problem area”? We all have them, where the beard grows in wild patterns. My initial tendency was to go over these areas multiple times from all angles, adding pressure to the razor as I went. The right side of my neck under the jawline often looked like uncooked meat when I was finished. My solution was to stop trying for BBS multiple days in a row; reserve that for special occasions. A DFS shave is perfectly adequate for every day shaves.
My routine is two passes, the first North to South, the second South to North. I rinse and lather between passes. No pressure on the razor (DE razor, anyway). Slow, short strokes. Stretch the skin where needed (I need it on my 60 year old neck). Just enjoy your shave.
Aside from this, blades selection is crucial. We are all different. The wrong blade will tear you apart. I can’t use a super sharp blade (Feather, Nacet, etc.), but have great results with Astra SP and Lab Blues. I also toss my blades after three shaves. As the coating wears off, the blades get sharper. Sharper is not necessitating better for sensitive skin.
Cheers!
- Thread starter
- #34
Hey thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
I’ve applied all of the previous feedback and shaved a number of times since making this post, I’ve made a lot of progress. Your advice seems solid, especially about the number of shaves per blade. Ive been tossing mine after 2-3 shaves as well.
As for the redness- I think the main culprit is- my neck does NOT like second passes. Especially against the grain passes. My face- 3 passes no problem. My neck- 1 pass, all is well.
Under the chin I can do a 2nd pass, but from the Adam’s apple on down, it’s not having 2 passes. 2 passes= instant redness & irritation.
That said, I’ve tried it once or twice and… while it still reacts and gets red, it’s not nearly as bad as before.
I think it’s just going to take a while for my neck to get used to shaving with a DE razor, and then take a while to get used to multiple passes. Or maybe I’ll just become a 1 pass neck guy.
I’ve also considered, down the road when my technique is solid, getting a really efficient razor and just doing 1 pass. That may be the move…
Also, that Gillette Sterling Indian Tech razor… how do I put it nicely… I think maybe I got a bad one? Being my first razor, I had nothing to compare it to or know if it was any good.
I bought a Lord L6 and it shaves like a dream. Worlds better than that Indian TECH, night and day difference. Seriously, it makes that Indian Tech feel like shaving with broken glass lol.
I like that the Tech forced me to get the angle perfect and punishes me if i use too much pressure or get it wrong.
But compared to the L6… it’s grabby and rough and picky on blades and my neck just does not like that razor.
I ordered a “nice“ razor (2 of them actually, ha!) but until they arrive, I’ll only be using the Lord. That Indian tech is officially “retired”
Well have you recently change from THROWAWAY RAZOR to DE that is significantly heavier? Are you letting the weight of Razor do the work, or are you bearing down like you did with light weight special?
So people like to BARE down, cause all sort of skin problems.
So people like to BARE down, cause all sort of skin problems.
The only razor I can shave comfortably ATG daily on the neck with is the Karve Overlander. If you’ve taken all the good advice here and have improved your technique to the point where you aspire to get a BBS on your neck, that’s the razor I would try to do it in. It’s a really safe, mild razor.
- Thread starter
- #37
Funny you say that, that’s actually the razor I ordered!
Ive seen/read a number of people say that it’s the best ATG razor they’ve used. That was one of the factors that made me choose it, though the overwhelming all around praise for it is what sealed the deal. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say they didn’t like it.
- Thread starter
- #38
I actually went from hair clippers to DE razor. I’ve had some sort of a beard since… 2001 I guess. Only occasionally have used cartridges throughout my life. Mostly just used clippers/trimmers to knock the beard hair down.
But in regards to razor weight, the DE razor I’ve been using is basically a throwaway plastic handle Indian Tech (Sterling) that probably weighs the same, or maybe less, than something like a Gillette Sensor or Harry’s cartridge razor.
I’ve been careful to apply as little pressure as possible, but I’m sure I have done it, even if subconsciously. Especially when holding razor upside down going south to north.
Whoohoo!!!
I tend to get this if I dont use a pre shave. I use the Cube from phoneix and I find my shaves go a lot better. but Being so new it could be any of the variables mentioned above!
