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Lo'Tek
I don't know about sharpness. I don't think I could control the angle on the DE I tried.
I don't know about sharpness. I don't think I could control the angle on the DE I tried.
That's how I would describe a DE. Grating, and rough. Straights are so much smoother, especially ATG.
Another thing I like about straights is the control. With a straight you don't have the middleman, the handle and all that junk. All you have is the blade itself, which gives you the ultimate in control.
At a physical level, i.e., in terms of cutting ability and as seen under a microscope, there's no question that a DE blade is sharper but that doesn't translate into a better shave. I think that a straight gives a better shave because while the edge is sharp enough to cut hair, the blade is stiffer and doesn't vibrate as much and it can depress the skin without cutting or irritating it. The straight edge glides over the skin where the DE blade scrapes and tears. This is why the heavy straight grinds are so comfortable.
*rushes off to check this under a 20x loupe...*
Ok, after thorough examination under the 20x and extensive testing, I do not feel that the DE edge is sharper. It won't even pass the HHT. The angle at which it cuts the hairs on the back of my palm is higher or equal to that of a straight. The pressure required is the same. *Those are MY sharpness tests developed over many honing sessions.
Thus, I cannot conclude that the DE is in fact sharper than my straights because the sharpness tests I use say so. Although it was neat to see the triple bevel on it.
TZ has photographic evidence. Thanks TZ.
Feather Blade
Edge off a straight
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I have two young children, and a wife. None of whom understand, nor fully appreciate my shave ritual.
I shave either at the gym, or after the kids are in bed....
Staright shaving is worth getting up extra early for!
I here you there!!! Maybe I'll start shaving in the evening. I'm already getting up at 6:00 to get showered and start shaving before my 3yr old gets up. Usually she's up by 6:30 which is usually just after I finish my prep. I would like to try shaving with a straight at some point so maybe I could work that into my evening routine.
That makes a lot of sense. You guys are really making me start to think. Christmas is right around the corner isn't it? Hmm. I think I know one thing that will be on my list
It's difficult for me to estimate how much better are straights over DE. However, from my limited experience, once I got over the learning curve of both honing and shaving:
1. Str8s can handle longer hair on the ATG, especially under the jaw
2. I can shave DFS with str8s quicker. One WTG pass looks better with str8
3. When shaving to BBS, the str8 shave will feel smoother 12 hours later and look better right before the next shave compared with DE
4. The biggest obstacle for me was handling the area around the lips but once learned, it feels like my skin is thicker and less sensitive as before and the shave takes much less time
My str8 model shave is this 4 minutes shave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuuuvuOzB7U
I shave exactly like him with no XTG and straight ATG under the jaw. Only the mustache and under the lips takes me longer.
With DE I can't jump to ATG, at least not without burns and nicks.
To summarize, it's very personal how much if at all str8 shaves are better over DE - you'll need to judge for yourself.
P.S: I have sensitive skin, medium density and thick hair.
1. Str8s can handle longer hair on the ATG, especially under the jaw
2. I can shave DFS with str8s quicker. One WTG pass looks better with str8
3. When shaving to BBS, the str8 shave will feel smoother 12 hours later and look better right before the next shave compared with DE
4. The biggest obstacle for me was handling the area around the lips but once learned, it feels like my skin is thicker and less sensitive as before and the shave takes much less time
My str8 model shave is this 4 minutes shave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuuuvuOzB7U
I shave exactly like him with no XTG and straight ATG under the jaw. Only the mustache and under the lips takes me longer.
With DE I can't jump to ATG, at least not without burns and nicks.
To summarize, it's very personal how much if at all str8 shaves are better over DE - you'll need to judge for yourself.
P.S: I have sensitive skin, medium density and thick hair.
My hx. DE since last Oct. Str8 since end of Dec. Str8 5-6x/wk. Best shave ever DE.Most enjoyable shaves, str8. I enjoy the process with a str8 including the stropping,honing,etc. I like the DE shave better but the str8 is very close. In time we will see. That learning curve is long, but so is a shavers life.
Got to say, I find that bolded part really weird. I've been told by a barber that I had the finest hair he'd seen, and it takes some real effort to get my straights to pass the HHT consistently using my hair (with others' hair it's easy). That said, I've never come across a DE blade that didn't pop them at first contact - no sliding whatsoever. Any chance you had a bum blade for that test?
Re: the thread topic
I shaved with a DE for about 6 months before trying a straight - long enough to be comfortable with it and able to get BBS most days without any irritation. Once I switched to straights, though, I never went back. There are so many more variables involved that it seems infinitely more interesting and rewarding. To put it another way, the bug that got me into traditional wetshaving with a DE in the first place makes shaving with a straight razor all the more appealing.
Interestingly, I've also had exactly the same experience Fnord5 reported. Twice I found myself short on time and without a straight that was ready to go, so I used my DE. Both times it was an absolute breeze; I found it far easier than it had ever seemed before. I chalked it up to the more advanced understanding of angles and pressure that I'd gotten from using straights.
I'll open up a new blade and try it again. Not like I use them anyway... 
My hairs don't like to pass the HHT. Either the blade has to be pretty toothy or incredibly sharp.
My hairs don't like to pass the HHT. Either the blade has to be pretty toothy or incredibly sharp.
Straight shaving experience is definitely beating the DE, and results for me are better. As discussed right now, I wonder why that is. With DE I almost always get irritation on my neck, the straight is just smooooooth. I tried feathers and Derby on my DEs.
In the beginning your shaves will not be as close and you should leave it to that, until you get more confident with the straight. I have a little scar on my chin now because I got too confident too fast.
So to sum it up, straight is the choice for me unless I am in a real hurry and I can't leave unshaven.
In the beginning your shaves will not be as close and you should leave it to that, until you get more confident with the straight. I have a little scar on my chin now because I got too confident too fast.
So to sum it up, straight is the choice for me unless I am in a real hurry and I can't leave unshaven.
As for the DE/Straight debate, I have a theory.
With a straight, provided you use the same one on a regular basis, you know exactly what to expect from it, every single time you pick it up.
You intrinsically know the balance, the feel, and the angle that will give you the best shave. This comes after many shaves with the exact same tool.
Also, each time you pick up the straight, you strop it, giving it the best possible edge just before the shave. Provided the steel is good that edge will stay just as sharp as when freshly honed for many months.
A DE on the other hand, is a different tool, every time you use it.
The handle and balance is the same, but the blades are never the same even if you stick to the same brand. One may be a bit sharper, one might be more polished, one might rip your face up.
After that first shave, the blade is changed too. Just ask some Feather users about how much better the second and third shaves are(Or the guys that only get one use, before they become too rough).
Some DE blades that I have tried, have needed a slightly different angle to cut, which is annoying, and not conducive to a consistent shave.
If a DE blade behaved like a straight, keeping a long lasting(months) edge, then the DE would possibly provide an equal shave to a straight.
But I know that when I pick up my straights, they behave the way I expect, and I don't have to worry if I have only two, or three shaves on it.
With a straight, provided you use the same one on a regular basis, you know exactly what to expect from it, every single time you pick it up.
You intrinsically know the balance, the feel, and the angle that will give you the best shave. This comes after many shaves with the exact same tool.
Also, each time you pick up the straight, you strop it, giving it the best possible edge just before the shave. Provided the steel is good that edge will stay just as sharp as when freshly honed for many months.
A DE on the other hand, is a different tool, every time you use it.
The handle and balance is the same, but the blades are never the same even if you stick to the same brand. One may be a bit sharper, one might be more polished, one might rip your face up.
After that first shave, the blade is changed too. Just ask some Feather users about how much better the second and third shaves are(Or the guys that only get one use, before they become too rough).
Some DE blades that I have tried, have needed a slightly different angle to cut, which is annoying, and not conducive to a consistent shave.
If a DE blade behaved like a straight, keeping a long lasting(months) edge, then the DE would possibly provide an equal shave to a straight.
But I know that when I pick up my straights, they behave the way I expect, and I don't have to worry if I have only two, or three shaves on it.
I think that, as for most topics on this board, this is very subjective.
It depends on you personal preference, experience and expectations. Also, since this is posted on the Straight Razor section, there maybe a little bias here.
I have only been using straight razors for a few months now and am truly enjoying rhe experience. There certainly is a considerable amount of learning required for straight razor shaving, but that is also true of double edge shaving.
Using a straight, I have progressed to where I can get a fairly decent shave, with a straight, as long as I take my time.
But, after 10 years of shaving with a double edge, I can easily get a true BBS shave, with no irritation and no drama. In about half the time
For my De shaves, I use a Merkur Futur with Super Iridium blades. It is an excellent combo for me. I really preffered the Gillette "Swedes" or the Old Wilinson Light Brigades, but alas, they are no more. I believe the Feather blades are a little overated and definitely overpriced. Vintage Gillettes, to me anyway, are beautiful and nostalgic, but don't shave as well as a Muhle, E. Jagger or Merkur Futur.
I guess that is a valid a point in the straight edge favor, you don't have to worry about whether you favorite blades will be discontinued.
On the other hand, I have about 1000 SI's stashed in my closet right now, and I get at least 6 great shaves from each one.
So, I guess I would say that Straight shaving is certainly enjoyable, and effective, after a suitable learning period.
But not really better than Double Edge.
It depends on you personal preference, experience and expectations. Also, since this is posted on the Straight Razor section, there maybe a little bias here.
I have only been using straight razors for a few months now and am truly enjoying rhe experience. There certainly is a considerable amount of learning required for straight razor shaving, but that is also true of double edge shaving.
Using a straight, I have progressed to where I can get a fairly decent shave, with a straight, as long as I take my time.
But, after 10 years of shaving with a double edge, I can easily get a true BBS shave, with no irritation and no drama. In about half the time
For my De shaves, I use a Merkur Futur with Super Iridium blades. It is an excellent combo for me. I really preffered the Gillette "Swedes" or the Old Wilinson Light Brigades, but alas, they are no more. I believe the Feather blades are a little overated and definitely overpriced. Vintage Gillettes, to me anyway, are beautiful and nostalgic, but don't shave as well as a Muhle, E. Jagger or Merkur Futur.
I guess that is a valid a point in the straight edge favor, you don't have to worry about whether you favorite blades will be discontinued.
On the other hand, I have about 1000 SI's stashed in my closet right now, and I get at least 6 great shaves from each one.
So, I guess I would say that Straight shaving is certainly enjoyable, and effective, after a suitable learning period.
But not really better than Double Edge.
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*rushes off to check this under a 20x loupe...*
Ok, after thorough examination under the 20x and extensive testing, I do not feel that the DE edge is sharper. It won't even pass the HHT. The angle at which it cuts the hairs on the back of my palm is higher or equal to that of a straight. The pressure required is the same. *Those are MY sharpness tests developed over many honing sessions.
Thus, I cannot conclude that the DE is in fact sharper than my straights because the sharpness tests I use say so. Although it was neat to see the triple bevel on it.
TZ has photographic evidence. Thanks TZ.
Feather Blade
Edge off a straight
And here is my very own testing at 200x
Ok,
Did more testing of DE blades, including the Feather blades. None of them would pass the HHT on my hair, nor would they cut at as low an angle as my straights do. Keep in mind that my hair is ridiculously hard to get a HHT from, so I'm not saying they aren't scary sharp or anything.
However, a vintage blade (forgot the name already) did pass the HHT and was at least as sharp as my straights.
So...take it for what you will.
Did more testing of DE blades, including the Feather blades. None of them would pass the HHT on my hair, nor would they cut at as low an angle as my straights do. Keep in mind that my hair is ridiculously hard to get a HHT from, so I'm not saying they aren't scary sharp or anything.
However, a vintage blade (forgot the name already) did pass the HHT and was at least as sharp as my straights.
So...take it for what you will.
Great pics!
Seems like pretty good scientific method to me.
I do not know how anyone else feels about it--I may be mentally unbalanced or at least over-enthusiastic--but the picture of that Sheffiield under 200x seems so reassuring. A pleasure to gaze upon. What an elegant thing a properly honed edge of a straight razor is.
May even be a primal thing. A primitive man could look at a flint knife in his hand and be reassured that he would survive in a hostile environment. A samari could heft his sword and feel that he was not alone against his enemies. We can look at a stunningly smooth and sharp edge and subliminally we are reminded that we have its assistance in molding our universe to better serve our needs.
Another version of razor porn, too.
Michael's response is the same as my response would have been, except he has stated it far better than I would have.
I believe that if someone rushes to say that a straight razor shave is x times better than a DE, then it becomes a specific response to their own unique experiences with both types of razors. I've been fortunate to have very good experiences with both types, and find it very difficult to quantify better or worse as applied to the quality of the shaves and the type of razor used.
The differences are what makes it so intriguing and enjoyable. I love shaving with both types of razors, and shall continue to use both.
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