Honing: After Belgian Coticule, which paste?

[kingreverent]

Hi,
I've a question: after honing on the Belgian Coticule, which paste should I use?
I've TI (diamond/aluminum paste) and the Chromoxide paste.
After the Coticule should I use the Ti and then the Chromoxide? Or the Ti alone? Or the Chromxide alone?
Or: first the Chromoxide and then the Ti paste?
I don't want to overhone.
So any advise is very thankful.

 

[joel]

Chrome Oxide.

Throw out the TI Paste.

 

[Kees]

After the coticule I only use leather w/o paste.

 

[Kees]

After the coticule I only use leather w/o paste. I have never been very impressed w/ CrO2 paste (Puma) anyway.

 

[Lynn]

Depends on the razor. Some really take to .5 micron diamond paste and some like the green or Chromium Oxide better. The green is pretty all around, but you might want to make sure you need it after coming off a coticule.

Lynn

 

[AFDavis11]

I guess I'd have to say my lack of talent is probably the issue but I'd be reluctant to use paste after a coticule, but I'd vote for .5 also I suppose. I would emphasize perhaps using a very spare amount on whatever transfer medium you choose.

The edge has got to be wicked smooth doesn't it? I mean off 8K my razors just float across my face.

 

[izlat]

Really depends on the razor (hm, didn't Lynn say this ) - both steel and sharpness condition off the Coticule

I usually get great results from Chromium, both Puma and Hand American. Of course, the Friodur might need 50 (it did, indeed, need 50 laps) for a really nice edge, and others only need 11 laps. The ones that need 11 laps do not get better with 5 more laps, on the contrary. Several Solingens do alright with 30 laps, and others actually will take 100 but will give fab edges in return for the effort

So far, I have had great results on most razors. If anything, Sheffield wedges didn't improve too much (maybe I have not found the optimal number of laps for them). Having said this, my 8/8 W&B Barber's use did improve with Chromium. Not sure but I think it needed 30 or so laps...

Forgot to say that I don't use any diamond, and cannot talk about it.

There is one more thing to consider - the amount of Chromium on the leather. Hand American demonstrates that you need really very little of it. On the other hand, if you look at paddles and stuff coming with Chromium from MLivi, Tony M, and, say, Puma - you would see that they use much more. According to HA - if you use more than optimal, you are going to get sub-par results. (I have not noticed inferior results myself - maybe my quantity was still in the "working well" range)

Cheers
Ivo

 

[EL Alamein]

I agree with Lynn but would add that if you master the coticule you shouldn't need paste.

Regards,
Chris

 

[izlat]

I agree with Lynn but would add that if you master the coticule you shouldn't need paste.

Regards,
Chris

Well, I agree - and would add that you wouldn't even need the Coticule after a rougher hone, but the Coticule feels nice on the face if you use it well. To me, a Chromium-finished edge feels smoother than a Coticule edge = nicer. I don't need it, but I surely like it.

FWIW, Lynn has more experience honing razors than anyone I know of, and he said "WOWZA" about Chromium on another thread, iirc. This should give you a good indication of its benefits. If I couldn't feel and appreciate the difference that comes from using Chromium, I would not be doing it

Cheers
Ivo

 

[kingreverent]

Many thanks.
I asked in fact this question because I had some problems sharpening a new TI Pierre Thiers which a aquired recently.
It came quite "dull". I treated it with the TI paste: no big difference. Then I treated it with the Chromoxide: a litte bit better.
Then I decided to sharpen on the coticule. The coticule has a "built-in sharpening indicator": as long as the liquid is pushed before the bevel,than it isn't sharp yet. The moment that the liquid spils over and reaches the spine it is sharp. An you can see the part of the bevel that's already sharp or not.
I did it, sharpened and made the "hair test": I could shave the hair of my forearm. But the shave itself was not optimal. It pulled...
So again with the TI paste...with the chromoxide. Still not happy.
I must say that I encountered this only with my Pierre Thiers.
Is it something that is inherent with the Pierre Thiers? Maybe the steel?

 

[bpatton]

I'm a noob, but my henckels 74 loves the diamond.

 

[mparker762]

I did it, sharpened and made the "hair test": I could shave the hair of my forearm. But the shave itself was not optimal.

Maybe you know this and just described it awkwardly, but the armhair test isn't shaving the hair on your arm - it's popping the tips of the hairs on your forearms with the touch of the razor.

 

[Tony Miller]

I will occasionally use a 0.5 micron paste after a finishing hone, Coticule, Escher, Thuringer, Hunsrueck, etc... but use it mostly between honings, every few weeks.

The problem with most pastes is applying "just a little". To get it really worked into the surface of the entire strop requires adding a considerable amount and rubbing like crazy. Using just a little bit finds me with a superficial layer that does not seem to last long. On later pastings a tiny bit goes a long way but the porous leather soaks up a lot of the moisture in the paste on the first applications.

Sometime last year a fellow on SRP brought up diamond sprays as a choice along with things like alumina, jwelers rouge, etc.... I've not tried the alternative abrasives but the sprays work fairly well. They apply easily and reapply easily. They do not appear as if they are doing much as they don't darken as quickly but have been quite effective.

Tony

 

[Steerpike]

I'd suggest that the TI paste is counterproductive after using the coticle. I've not used either one myself, but the TI paste is supposed to work in the region of 10K grit, while the coticle seems to work at 12K.

Chromium oxide may be more to the point- much finer.

I usually get a perfectly good edge just using a barbers hone with lather- you can feel by the suction when it's nearly there, and it helps maintain a really light touch. But I rarely can get my wedges as sharp as I require, on either waterstones or my barbers hone- I end up using the Hamon Pere blue paste in the end, and that gets them wonderfully sharp. I'm not sure why, as it seems to be a similar, or possibly slightly coarser abrasive than my hone. I'll use the chromium next time, as it is finer, but as my wedges can happily stay terrifyingly sharp for a year, I may be in for a wait, as I honed them both recently...

Has anyone else found the same thing with wedges? They can be failing all the tests on the hone, overhoning, then I take off the burr and they dont get sharp, then I overhone again.. eventually they just get slapped down on the paste and hey presto! Good to go! Are there any secrets to honing these, or was Arthur Boon right when he said that the pastes were made for this job?

 

[izlat]

...The coticule has a "built-in sharpening indicator": as long as the liquid is pushed before the bevel,than it isn't sharp yet. The moment that the liquid spils over and reaches the spine it is sharp. An you can see the part of the bevel that's already sharp or not.
I did it, sharpened and made the "hair test": I could shave the hair of my forearm. But the shave itself was not optimal. It pulled...
So again with the TI paste...with the chromoxide. Still not happy.
I must say that I encountered this only with my Pierre Thiers.
Is it something that is inherent with the Pierre Thiers? Maybe the steel?

I am not so sure about this indicator. As you say yourself - the shave was not optimal. Blade suction and feel on the hone certainly can indicate something about the edge - but I think I usually do more laps after the water starts spilling over to the spine. And I still do thumb pad, arm hair and HHT test after this until I feel the razor is worthy of a test shave, no matter how the water moves. THEN, when I am satisfied with the hair tests, I hit Chromium - just to get it a bit smoother. I may repeat the hair tests after Chromium again to make sure I have not dulled the edge somehow

Cheers
Ivo

 

[Richard]

Maybe you know this and just described it awkwardly, but the armhair test isn't shaving the hair on your arm - it's popping the tips of the hairs on your forearms with the touch of the razor.

Can someone explain the latter part of the above sentence?
Rich

“Work and play are words used to describe the same thing under differing conditions.” – Mark Twain

 

[FloppyShoes]

Can someone explain the latter part of the above sentence?
Rich

“Work and play are words used to describe the same thing under differing conditions.” – Mark Twain

Certainly,

For this test you pass the blade through your arm hair without it touching your skin. The hairs should "pop" and get cut if the razor is sharp. A very dull razor will not cut the hairs at all. A soso razor will tug and pull, the blade being sharp enough to dig in but not sharp enough to go right through without pressure.

I personally use leg hair for this test, I'll normally hone 3-4 razors at a time and do this test a dozen times or so. Too much testing makes for odd hair patterns on your arms