FX's 'Shogun' brings a new, epic version of James Clavell's novel to life. :-)

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

I cant wait to watch this 10 episode Mini-Series.

By Bryan Alexander - USA TODAY - 19 Feb 24

"FX's battle for "Shogun" supremacy is about to commence".

"The sprawling 10-episode limited series, which flexed a Super Bowl trailer, has been billed in advance reviews as "Game of Thrones" set in feudal Japan — with looming war, life-and-death palace intrigue, plotting and politics.

"The big difference is that the dragons are within our 'Shogun' characters rather than stretching across the sky," says Rachel Kondo, who wrote and executive produced the series with her husband Justin Marks.

There is subtlety in power and action, but also sweeping grandeur and battling armies in the period drama heralding a new TV version of James Clavell's 1975 historical fiction tome, which was also adapted into a hit 1980 miniseries starring Richard Chamberlain.

Hiroyuki Sanada as Lord Yoshii Toranaga

FX Networks chief John Landgraf touted his network's most expensive, decade-long project at this month's Television Critics Association press tour: "In my 20 years at FX, we've never undertaken an epic of this scale," he said. "This is a long-gestating labor of love."

Here's what you need to know about "Shogun."

The first two "Shogun" episodes premiere Feb. 27 on FX (10 p.m. EST/PST) and Hulu (12:01 a.m. EST). The remaining episodes will be released weekly on Tuesdays until the finale on April 23.[...].

Is 'Shogun' a remake?

"Shogun" is an original adaptation of Clavell’s bestselling novel, starring Sanada as the embattled Toranaga, who shrewdly enlists marooned the English pilot John Blackthorne (Jarvis) into an evolving plan to help tip the scale of power in 1600s Japan with their translator, Mariko (Sawai).

Clavell was an executive producer of the 1980 NBC nine-hour miniseries "Shogun," an epic TV event watched by one-third of TV households at the time. Richard Chamberlain became an international star as Blackthorne in the story that focused on the romance with his translator Mariko (Yốko Shimada). Iconic Japanese actor Toshirố Mifune starred as Toranaga.

The 1980 series is credited with opening American viewers' eyes to Japanese culture, but has been criticized for focusing on a Western point of view through Blackthorne, and his romance with Mariko. The new series tells a story exploring the complicated fabric of Japanese life through a Japanese perspective, as reflected in the novel.

"Our process was going straight to the text and listening to the story that was being told to us," says Marks.

"We see the story through Toranaga's eyes, Lady Mariko's eyes, so many Japanese eyes," says Sanada. "That's the intention of this version, to not see this story through one set of eyes this time. And to it make as authentic as possible."

Anna Sawai as Lady Mariko

Cosmo Jarvis as the restless English pilot, John Blackthorne

And the other cast members.

Read More: Shogun Mini-Series Release Date

"[...] I believe that good [...] television, can make our world a better place". Christiane Amanpour

 

[cranewarrior]

I am excited too. I really enjoyed the novel as well as its loose sequel Taipan. Recommended for you readers out there.

 

[Space_Cadet]

I watched the trailer and it is definitely not for me. Just an ordinary todays' kitsch.

 

[luvmysuper]

Nope.
A "modern" take on ancient Japan.

 

[Juanmosey]

I saw the 1st one during my SDSU days. I remember seeing a bumper sticker saying Lord Toranaga For President.

 

[Black Adder]

Nope.
A "modern" take on ancient Japan.

This is how I feel about it, too. And don't take this the wrong way, Christopher. If you're excited about the release, that's okay. Don't feel sad about others posting a different view.

Once a gaijin, always a gaijin.... I always had a problem with the original tome that a shipwrecked foreigner in feudal Japan would somehow be magically accepted into Japan's feudal society, ascending to Shogun status. It wouldn't matter if Richard Chamberlain, Tom Cruise, or the guy playing the role in this latest FX release was the shipwrecked foreigner... they would have been killed, enslaved, or ransomed. Marks's claim for "authenticity" really falls apart on that point.

Hollywood also seems to be stuck in "remake" mode... they're just remaking everything that has been done before.

 

[luvmysuper]

A very good read here:

A Historian Reads James Clavell’s Shogun | History Today

www.historytoday.com

It says, in part,
The model for Blackthorne, the protagonist of Shōgun, is Will Adams (1564-1620), the circumstances of whose arrival in Japan in April 1600 as pilot of a Dutch ship correspond closely to those of Blackthorne. Blackthorne's eventual rise to the position of adviser and retainer of Yoshi Toranaga roughly parallels the career of Adams; a key difference is that Clavell telescopes these events into a single summer, whereas in reality the intimacy of Adams and the historical Tokugawa Ieyasu grew over a matter of years. Clavell also inflates the heroic stature of the historical Adams by having Blackthorne actually save Toranaga's life, by having him introduce effective warfare with guns to Japan (something which had been accomplished several decades before), and above all by having him fall in love with the wife of one of the great feudal lords of Japan.

The biggest issues I have with the Novel and both miniseries is beyond it being loosely based on a real figure is the misinterpretation of Japanese culture, what was permitted and what was forbidden.
There are COUNTLESS examples apparent in all 3 versions.
The weaponization of a Japanese housewife, apparently revealing her ninja training (LOL), the impossible imaginary romance between her and Blackthorne, the coloring of Jesuits in Japan as evil corporate lackeys, the simplist of Japanese traditions portrayed incorrectly etc.
While it is true that there were female samurai, they were few.
They were also, every single one, of upper echelon Japanese society.
The character of the Japanese interpreter was based on an individual from an upper class family. But the family was destroyed by warlords and every member of the family was murdered or ordered to commit suicide except for this woman.
She was sent to live in a monestary.
There is no way that Japanese culture would permit this interpreter to take up arms.
The new miniseries says it is trying to show the story through the eyes of the Japanese, rather than through the Dutch Pilot, but the original novel didn't do that at all.
What few examples of Japanese perspective in the novel are so blatantly westernized as to make them laughable.

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

A very good read here:

A Historian Reads James Clavell’s Shogun | History Today

www.historytoday.com

It says, in part,
The model for Blackthorne, the protagonist of Shōgun, is Will Adams (1564-1620), the circumstances of whose arrival in Japan in April 1600 as pilot of a Dutch ship correspond closely to those of Blackthorne. Blackthorne's eventual rise to the position of adviser and retainer of Yoshi Toranaga roughly parallels the career of Adams; a key difference is that Clavell telescopes these events into a single summer, whereas in reality the intimacy of Adams and the historical Tokugawa Ieyasu grew over a matter of years. Clavell also inflates the heroic stature of the historical Adams by having Blackthorne actually save Toranaga's life, by having him introduce effective warfare with guns to Japan (something which had been accomplished several decades before), and above all by having him fall in love with the wife of one of the great feudal lords of Japan.

The biggest issues I have with the Novel and both miniseries is beyond it being loosely based on a real figure is the misinterpretation of Japanese culture, what was permitted and what was forbidden.
There are COUNTLESS examples apparent in all 3 versions.
The weaponization of a Japanese housewife, apparently revealing her ninja training (LOL), the impossible imaginary romance between her and Blackthorne, the coloring of Jesuits in Japan as evil corporate lackeys, the simplist of Japanese traditions portrayed incorrectly etc.
While it is true that there were female samurai, they were few.
They were also, every single one, of upper echelon Japanese society.
The character of the Japanese interpreter was based on an individual from an upper class family. But the family was destroyed by warlords and every member of the family was murdered or ordered to commit suicide except for this woman.
She was sent to live in a monestary.
There is no way that Japanese culture would permit this interpreter to take up arms.
The new miniseries says it is trying to show the story through the eyes of the Japanese, rather than through the Dutch Pilot, but the original novel didn't do that at all.
What few examples of Japanese perspective in the novel are so blatantly westernized as to make them laughable.

phil:

...the things you learn. You never seize to amaze me.

"[...] I believe that good [...] television, can make our world a better place". Christiane Amanpour

 

[luvmysuper]

phil:

...the things you learn. You never seize to amaze me.

"[...] I believe that good [...] television, can make our world a better place". Christiane Amanpour

I may give it a cautionary look, but if it turns out to be an example of a 90 lb Japanese housewife defeating a 170 lb trained swordsman, or how Western culture intruded and threatened the indigenous people, it'll be shut off swiftly.
I know it's fiction, and as flawed as the book and the first miniseries was, it was still entertaining.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

The William Adams story is pretty fascinating, though, and there is a reasonable amount of documentary evidence to piece it together (letters, diaries, etc). I'd be interested in reading a more sober treatment of it.

Wikipedia tells me that Giles Milton wrote a biography of him...anyone here read it? Is it worth hunting down?

 

[luvmysuper]

The William Adams story is pretty fascinating, though, and there is a reasonable amount of documentary evidence to piece it together (letters, diaries, etc). I'd be interested in reading a more sober treatment of it.

Wikipedia tells me that Giles Milton wrote a biography of him...anyone here read it? Is it worth hunting down?

There have been several books on the subject. I forget the titles, but the Giles Milton version is just the most recent I believe.

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

[...] I know it's fiction, and as flawed as the book and the first miniseries was, it was still entertaining.

Phil:

...entertaining just the same and I wouldn't miss it for the world.

"Fiction reveals truths that reality obscures". Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

The Premier yesterday was awesome.

And now...the rest of the story.

"The Real History Behind FX’s ‘Shōgun"

By Alexis Nedd - IndieWire - 28 Feb 24

"Before “Game of Thrones,” there was “Shōgun.”

Both are bestselling novels about a factional war between regents/kings to determine who will sit on a recently usurped throne … but James Clavell’s “Shōgun” was published in 1975, 21 years before George R. R. Martin’s “A Game of Thrones” hit bookshelves.

Both became pop culture juggernauts with an Emmy, Golden Globe, and Peabody Award-winning television adaptation that was so popular that restaurants reported a dip in sales whenever an episode aired … but “Shōgun’s” first adaptation premiered in 1980, “Thrones” in 2012.

Both draw on real life history to craft dramatic stories, but “Game of Thrones” is a fantasy and “Shōgun” is historical fiction.

Kind of.

[...] “Shōgun” is a fictional take on the early seventeenth century power struggle that in real life led to Lord Tokugawa Ieyasu founding the Tokugawa Shōgunate, a dynastic military government that ruled over Japan from 1603 to 1868.

The Shōgunate emerged after a period of political turmoil that saw Japan’s feudal lords, or daimyo, united under the banner of samurai lord Oda Nobunaga, only to see Lord Oda murdered by one of his own men.

Another one of Oda’s men, a peasant-born retainer named Toyotomi Hideyoshi, avenged his lord by killing the assassin and took over Lord Oda’s leadership.

The lowborn Toyotomi took the title of Taiko, an imperial regent that essentially made him the ruler of Japan. After his death, a council of five regents ruled in place of his underage son, which they did wisely and peacefully until — just kidding, they hated

each other and started a war.

The setup for “Shōgun” copies these exact beats from history but gives the main players different names, giving Clavell enough narrative deniability to stick to history when he feels like it but otherwise go nuts with quasi-historical intrigue.

In the Clavell dimension, Lord Tokugawa is called Toranaga (Hiroyuki Sanada) and his rival Lord Ishida is Ishido (Takehiro Hira). The recently deceased Taiko’s name is Nakamura, who served not Lord Oda, but Goroda to unify Japan.

Many other characters have historical backgrounds, including some of the Portuguese Jesuit priests John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) encounters on his journey.

If you’re wondering why a Japanese war epic needs a British co-protagonist … that’s probably the same question Lord Tokugawa asked himself when William Adams, John Blackthorne’s historical counterpart, washed up on the beach with a boat

full of guns.

William Adams (below), really was the first Englishman to set foot in Japan, and the broad strokes of his backstory closely resemble the

fictional Blackthorne’s.

He was the pilot of a Dutch ship that carried the last handful of survivors from a trading journey that went south both metaphorically and latitudinally.

Like Blackthorne, Adams spoke Portuguese, which meant he could communicate with Tokugawa through the Jesuit translators who had been attempting to convert the Japanese population to Christianity since the mid-1500s — more about them later.

Of course, “Shōgun” exaggerates Adams-as-Blackthorne’s role in Tokugawa’s court and the war itself, but some of the interactions between Blackthorne and Toranaga directly reference Adams’ letters, including his vocal distrust in Portuguese Jesuits to fairly translate his words.

In 1494, Spain and Portugal signed the Treaty of Tordesillas, in which they divvied up the rights to colonize and spread Catholicism in the so-called new world.

Their sophisticated method for determining which parts of the planet would be Spanish and which would be Portuguese was literally drawing a line down a map and going “everything to on the other side of this line is Portugal now,” which — in case anyone was wondering — is why they speak Portuguese in Brazil when all of the other South American countries speak Spanish. Brazil was in Portugal’s slice of the world pie.

Those rights extended all the way around the globe; when a ship carrying Portuguese traders got lost somewhere around China and ended up landing in Japan in 1543, they were delighted to discover that according to their maps, this too was Portugal’s!

After establishing trade routes and bringing in Jesuits to convert the population, the Portuguese kept the location of Japan a secret for 57 years. They had it made as long as none of those awful Protestant countries like England or the Netherlands
found them.

Which they did. Or rather, William Adams did.

As a Protestant navigator on Japanese soil, Adams became the number one threat to Portugal’s position in Japan. And that’s why every time a Portuguese guy sees Blackthorne it’s pretty much on sight.

[...] So is “Shōgun” historical fiction

More so than “Game of Thrones,” which uses England’s War of the Roses as an incredibly loose model for the War of the Five Kings, less so than direct history books that tell the story of Tokugawa Ieyasu emerging victorious from a war involving
five regents".

Read More: Is Shogun Real Historical Fact or Fiction?

"Karma is the beginning of knowledge. Next is patience. Patience is very important. The strong are the patient ones, Anjin-san". Lord Toranaga

 

[luvmysuper]

I've watched Episode 1 and 2.
Though there is still a lot of the Clavell prejudgment against Christianity as personified by the Jesuit Priests on display, so far it is interesting and has held my attention.
I'll keep watching. I hope they don't mess up the time I've invested so far with outlandish plot twists and contrivances.

 

[Doc4]

1980 NBC nine-hour miniseries "Shogun," an epic TV event watched by one-third of TV households at the time.

Including ours. I remember watching that as a kid with the rest of the family, and enjoying it.

Of course, that was back in the day when "everyone" had cable ... which meant you got the "big three" American stations, the "big two" Canadian ones, and a couple local independents.

Nowadays ... you need subscriptions to this that and the other streaming service ... and none of them are actually good enough to justify the monthly cost to get one or two good shows. Heck, I don't even know what "FX" really is.

 

[DrStrange]

Including ours. I remember watching that as a kid with the rest of the family, and enjoying it.

Of course, that was back in the day when "everyone" had cable ... which meant you got the "big three" American stations, the "big two" Canadian ones, and a couple local independents.

Nowadays ... you need subscriptions to this that and the other streaming service ... and none of them are actually good enough to justify the monthly cost to get one or two good shows. Heck, I don't even know what "FX" really is.

I liked the way they showed Blackthorne's progress learning Japanese.

Until Blackthorne learned enough to understand what they saying,
the audience experienced the Japanese dialogue
in Japanese without translation.

A substantial minority of the audience didn't like that.

 

[Jay21]

I started watching it today on Hulu in 4k. It’s fantastic.

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

Super good so far!

 

[Phoenixkh]

I’ll have to wait until it’s released on one of the streaming services we already have. Eventually, everything shows up on one of them.

 

[luvmysuper]

Well, 3 episodes in and I'll keep on.
Nothing outrageously out of place besides the noted propensity of Clavell to portray Japanese women as open and free about sex, and a very brief Woman at arms scene with Mariko taking the upper hand against trained soldiers.
In many ways I find it better than the first mini-series. The behind the scenes Machiavellian Japanese scheming is certainly much more forward, and the series benefits greatly from that.