Definitive test for sharp enough for BBS?

[58Reissue]

Everything revolves around a solid and consistent technique.

I have a small stable of razors and when starting out I struggled a bit. Having been a guy who could sharpen a spoon and make it slick arm hair I figured a razor would be easy. Well it wasn’t hard but it took some attention.

You can read up on how to hone a razor and this place is the way to go let me tell you. So really what it comes down to is what is sharp and comfortable.

You can read volumes of stuff on JNats and synthetics to Arkansas stones, balsa strops and all that. Everything has a technical application in the way they perform.

The goal is sharp and comfortable yet a functionally good shave.

For me. And this is just me. I have got my technique of honing and stropping to where all of my razors pass a HHT before each and every pass, not that I test before each pass but I know my technique. Once you find your groove it’s not hard but for me that is the test. Anything less is pulling and tugging and gives me a less than comfortable shave.

YMMV of course but find a spot that works and learn to stay there.

 

[Staggers and Jags]

i cant seem to get my razors tree topping but i still get good usually irritation free results

 

[rbscebu]

i cant seem to get my razors tree topping but i still get good usually irritation free results

If you can tree-top with a Feather DE blade, you should, with decent steel and honing technique, be able to get a SR to tree-top.

My only SR that meets (or might even just exceed) a Feather DE edge for keenness is the Gold Dollar W59. It is also my currently most favoured SR.

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I do not recommend this SR for beginners!

It was bevel-set from a 180° bevel on synthetic 400/1k and 3k. Then progressed on lapping films and finished on diamond pasted balsa strops. It is also one of my best performing SR's. After-shave maintenance is 60 laps on 0.1μm hanging balsa. This keeps the edge in top condition.

 

[oscar11]

I don't do much testing maybe pop a hair or two on the back of my wrist. I enjoy doing one pass shaves and I try to nail every one. I'm tuned into my razors but refining technique helps get to bbs. It's challenge for me but I'm getting some nice shaves nowadays.

 

[TSENG]

I'm used to this way of finding the ideal edge.

 

[rbscebu]

I'm used to this way of finding the ideal edge.

Each to their own but there is no way that I would slide an edge over paper. Paper is generally made of cellulose fibres that are about as hard as timber.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

AHT and TPT tells me most of what I need to tell if an edge is complete. But the shave test is the real test.

 

[Jakebullet]

I personally don’t come away from the stone and strop until my razors can do a clear HHT using pretty much any hair I can find around the bathroom or hairbrush.
The hair I use will belong to my girlfriend or young daughters and is always curly, long and fine.
Passing the HHT does st always mean a great shave though as I’ve found out but it’s a very good indicator for me.
It means I’m there or nearly there and can move onto the finisher I like best, usually an Arkansas, coticule, jnat, Welsh slate.
It took me a long time to be able to even get razors to pass HHT at all, I used to just get violining and the very occasional cut though I did get fine shaves.
Nowadays I can get the same violining from the 1k stone, long before I reach the finisher.
Even so, I love a BBS finish all over and this takes me four passes. Wtg, xtg, atg and then a bespoke multi directional pass to get rid of all the bits which grow at angles very slightly removed from the norm.
I’ve tried many times to achieve a great result with less passes and numerous beard mapping session but it seems I’m locked into 4.
If I want 12 hour perfect softness that is.
I occasionally try a one or two pass shave if I’m in a rush but they’re generally rubbish for me personally and not as good even as the same time spent with a cartridge razor.
Just my two cents.

 

[cugel]

For me a good HHT is necessary, but not sufficient, for a good shave. I have had many edges pass HHT pretty well but the shave was average.

 

[Possum092]

Sharp enough is good enough. Never had any major issues developing a great edge; even when shaving with an axe head.

 

[TSENG]

Sharp enough is good enough. Never had any major issues developing a great edge; even when shaving with an axe head. View attachment 1623240

If the skin is comfortable after shaving, then it's a good edge.

 

[Oilstone]

I'm currently doing one pass shaves now like some of the other gentlemen up above. It's been a year shy of a decade now since I started out on my journey and I've learned how to get the best out of one carefully executed and let's be honest exquisite pass.

Test wise, I will use a TPT boy and get that finger tickled a bit.

Used to be obsessed with a HHT like it was designed by God to show man a razor was sharp enough. The Coticule guys at Coticule dot BE used to be, most likely still are about that life. Then you get a wire edge that's shredding hair in the HHT have the edge break off into your face and after suffering a serious case of the ouchies, sack up and invest in a few other tests just to make sure.

A nice loupe to eye ball the edge combined with a TPT and the occasional tree topping of arm hair usually gets me where I need to be.

The shave test is the key.

 

[Shaun asleep]

Cherry tomato

I find using cherry tomatoes or mandarines the easiest way to test as well.
Zero pressure and make sure you can get it to cut through that bastard. If it does you're on the right track.
I can shave off arm hair with a blade that cant cut through the fruit. The HHT doesnt work that well for me. I'm not sure why.

 

[steveclarkus]

I find using cherry tomatoes or mandarines the easiest way to test as well.
Zero pressure and make sure you can get it to cut through that bastard. If it does you're on the right track.
I can shave off arm hair with a blade that cant cut through the fruit. The HHT doesnt work that well for me. I'm not sure why.

Make sure you are holding the root end of the hair so the scales on the hair catch the edge of the razor.

 

[RayClem]

There is no single test that works for everyone. I have used the Arm Hair test, the HHT, the thumbnail test and the paper cut test. Either of these tests is highly subjective. If your beard hair is "normal", whatever that means, then any of the tests may work. If your beard is coarse, as mine is, then no test is ideal. I have learned that if I can pop arm hairs 1/2 inch above skin level, then I might be able to get a great shave. One thing I have learned is that you should always strop your blade before testing. I have numerous blades fail my arm hair test that would pass as soon as I strop them.

As someone who worked my entire career in the paper industry, paper cut tests are great for testing knives, but terrible for testing razors. Even if your blade passes the paper cut test, the damage to the edge will be such that it will no longer be suitable for shaving. Cutting paper is quite hard on the edge of a blade, so I do not recommend it for razors.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Just look at the edge from the side and straight down with magnification. Hair tests are unreliable until calibrated. HHT is very subjective.

You are not testing the whole edge, just a very small sample. Visually you can look at the whole edge, and see the slightest imperfection without touching the edge.

It is quick, non-destructive, and definitive. It too must be calibrated, understand what it is you are seeing, but any reflection on the edge is where the bevels are not fully meeting.

 

[Loner16]

For me, the hanging hair test is a near foolproof indicator. I use my own hair, and my good wife's hair, and I get an excellent indication of shaveability. I also test on hairs on my hand near the thumb, above the skin.. taught to me by my longtime, now retired barber.
But, I like doing the HHT. With a nice sharp razor, I could spend a half hour turning long hairs into short hairs... I find it very satisfying!

 

[Slash McCoy]

What do you consider to be a definitive non-shaving test to determine if a SR is sharp enough to give you the closest possible shave? I.e. - if it won't do this, you need to keep working on sharpening it.

There is no definitive test for shaveworthiness except for the shave test. Let us be clear about that.

Other sharpness tests can only indicate the likelihood of being able to get a good shave from the razor. Also, a beginner who has not yet developed skill at shaving in the manly way, will not be able to judge an edge by his shave results very well. Further, it is rather inconvenient to stop honing and have a quick shave to see how the edge is developing. So while sharpness tests other than the shave test are not conclusive and can even be a bit misleading, there are certainly situations where sharpness tests can be useful.

The most popular sharpness test for a finished edge is the HHT. My favorite method is the TTT, TreeTop Test. The razor is swept over the forearm, 1/4" above the skin. The quantifiable element is how well it treetops the forearm hairs, or lops off the tips of the hairs. One or two hairs per pass is usually what I regard as shave ready. Better, is topping practically every hair the razor encounters. Still more better is doing so with no perceptible ping or tink sound, and no disturbance of the hair base. That is an almost impossibly sharp edge. Then going the other way, if the razor does not treetop at 1/4" but will do so at maybe 1/8", then I generally think of the razor as being marginally shave ready. Results of course vary with speep technique, hydration level, hair texture, and other factors. Usually once you develop your own personal calibration of the results, your findings are useful to you, and relative to other razors you have tested and shaved with. You can be deceived by the test, because there could be a bad spot on the edge that goes untested or unnoticed. However, it is easy and convenient to do. Combined with a detailed visual examination under very bright light and with a good loupe such as the Belomo 10x Triplet, I can determine whether or not I even want to try shaving with the razor. The test is also useful for a newbie with his first razor, to determine the probability of the razor being too dull to expect a good shave from it. dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddsfcccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I think Slash fell asleep with his head on the keyboard

 

[Slash McCoy]

I think Slash fell asleep with his head on the keyboard

Oops sorry. Not my head, just my big paws.