DE sharpness compared to straights

[javast]

I just tried DE shaving for the first time, having got a Henson Mild 2.0 for Christmas. I paired it with a feather blade. This was my first time doing a DE shave, coming from straights. Wow the feather is sharp. Sadly, I can report that I have not been able to produce anywhere near as sharp of an edge with any straight. But wow, the shave was dang near perfect.

My reason for posting here is to ask:

Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is possible to routinely, and without massive experience and exotic stones produce an edge like you can get on a feather DE blade? I guess it would be best if someone who uses both would have an opinion...

 

[captaincaed]

I haven't yet had as close a shave with a straight. But I've only been honing for ~2 years. Which is a weird way to frame that remark, come to think of it.

 

[silverlifter]

I've shaved with Feathers and straights. Personally, I get better shaves with a straight; just as close, but much more comfortable. Sharpness is only one aspect of the equation; diminishing returns and whatnot...

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I also have just recently been playing around with a DE. Not Feather blades, though. My very short-term experience is that it takes at least the same amount of buffing with the DE to knock down the toughest whiskers as it does with a straight. That's taking into account trying to find the angle with the DE, etc.

But, two things to keep in mind. Closeness from a DE is going to be partly governed by the geometry of the head (assuming all else is equal). Second, perceived sharpness on a DE blade is partly due to the coating. It's really apples and oranges; DE blades have more obtuse bevel angles and sometimes wider apexes than straights, so on paper, they are objectively less sharp, yet they might cut smoother and with less apparent force.

Technique plays a role, too.

 

[javast]

I've shaved with Feathers and straights. Personally, I get better shaves with a straight; just as close, but much more comfortable. Sharpness is only one aspect of the equation; diminishing returns and whatnot...

Thanks, and I appreciate the point. For me straight razor shaving has a focused, meditative quality about it that I enjoy, so I am unlikely to switch, except, perhaps, in situations where time, or other factors mean I don't want to meditate. However, the question I am most interested in, is really about comparative sharpness.

The feather blade had almost no sound or resistance when lopping off the hairs. The subjective experience of these factors leads me to understand that it is waaaay sharper than my straight. I am wondering if others can routinely produce sharper blades - irrespective of the relative comfort, or subjective experience. I understand, and agree that it is only part of the equation, but for now I am interested in this one variable.

 

[javast]

I also have just recently been playing around with a DE. Not Feather blades, though. My very short-term experience is that it takes at least the same amount of buffing with the DE to knock down the toughest whiskers as it does with a straight. That's taking into account trying to find the angle with the DE, etc.

But, two things to keep in mind. Closeness from a DE is going to be partly governed by the geometry of the head (assuming all else is equal). Second, perceived sharpness on a DE blade is partly due to the coating. It's really apples and oranges; DE blades have more obtuse bevel angles and sometimes wider apexes than straights, so on paper, they are objectively less sharp, yet they might cut smoother and with less apparent force.

Technique plays a role, too.

I see - you answer posted prior to my last clarification, but this is helpful. On your point about bevel and apex geometry, do you have any more detail? have you looked in microscopes, etc? any other threads or posts that discuss it?

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I see - you answer posted prior to my last clarification, but this is helpful. On your point about bevel and apex geometry, do you have any more detail? have you looked in microscopes, etc? any other threads or posts that discuss it?

There is a blog that has scanning electron microscope images of some blades including Feathers and straight razors. I don't think we're allowed to link to it but it's easily found on Google.

The short version is that while a straight razor can be made to be technically, objectively sharper, that doesn't always translate to cutting more effortlessly.

 

[Gamma]

I never thought Feather DE blades were all that great to be honest. I have them here now, use them to shave the back of my neck with I cut my hair. Once in a very blue moon I will shave test with them.
I get longer lasting shaves from straights I hone. Feathers will hang up and tug badly on a couple of nasty rogue whiskers where the straight will just slice them without hesitation.

Skills matter, razor quality matters, shave skill matters, geometry matters, stones matter.
Someone with a Gold Dollar and Bearmoo stones probably isn't going to get there.
But multi-thousand $$ setups are not a requirement either.
Past that, the two biggest players in the equation might be honing skills and shaving skills.

What also matters is what you want to do; shave with a DE or shave with a straight?
It doesn't need to be a competition, it really is two different worlds.
Me, personally, I don't shave with a straight because it's 'better'. I just enjoy it more.
If I was able to get better shaves with a DE, I would still use a straight.
But DEs give great shaves too. Somedays it's equal, others days the scales might tip in one direction or another.

 

[TSENG]

Another thing to pay attention to when shaving is skin comfort.
A correct straight razor edge must be more comfortable than DE.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Feather DE blades are sharp, especially the first two to three shaves.

If sharp is what you are after, diamond paste on balsa is one solution for a straight. There are numerous threads on the forum about diamond paste on balsa - often referred to as "The Method".

 

[Ron R]

The closest shave to a straight razor I have experienced is using a Gem safety razor. It is just a short version of straight razor blade.
The modern Gem PTFE blades are very sharp and have great longevity.
(Old archived photo with a wedge blade in a Star bar #4 1919-20 lather catcher)

Have some great shaves!

 

[captaincaed]

I get much more control with a straight. Cleaner lines around the jaw, easier trim under the nose. It’s a little slower, usually more comfortable, nearly as close. But I’m closing in on a shave as close. I can see it, just need a little more practice.

 

[psfred]

I've not been able to get a straight razor as sharp as a DE blade yet, although it might be possible. Problem is that DE blades are machine made on very expensive very accurate machines and straight razors are honed by hand.

That said, my best attempts at honing, while not fully successful, have shown me I can get better shaves with a straight razor. One pass WTG using a straight is almost as close as an ATG pass with a DE, no mean feat since a WTG pass with a DE for me usually results in little or no beard reduction at all.

If absolute sharpness is what you want, stropping on balsa loaded with diamond will be best, but super sharp isn't the only thing about straight razors that give you better shaves. They indeed seem to cut closer, and the much heavier blade probably vibrates less. An friend of mine swears that his straight cuts hair below the skin surface, and he as a very coarse and dense beard.

 

[Lightcs1776]

I enjoy my SR shaves. However, even my professionally honed SR does not have the sharpness of my DE blades. That isn’t a bad thing, just a difference.

 

[swellcat]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether it is possible to routinely, and without massive experience and exotic stones, produce an edge like you can get on a feather DE blade?

Even with an exotic stone, I might be still working up toward the sharpness level of an Asco Orange.

 

[Mitzie]

A shavette fitted with a Treet 'Black Beauty' carbon steel blade (like most carbon steel SRs) is a good compromise IMO

 

[JPO]

It would be interesting to know what the bevel angle of a Feather DE blade is.
The Feather artist club blades;
The Pro has a final bevel around 24-25 degrees while the Super Pro is 18-19 degrees.
I can get a comfortable shave quite similar to a straight razor shave with a Super Pro blade. The regular pro blades will stall on my beard.
I am not sure what the bevel angle is on a DE, but to me they feel quite similar to a pro blade in terms of cutting efficiency.
A 16 to 17 deg bevel will be sharper then a 25 deg bevel angle no matter how refined the apex is.
That is if we define sharpness as the edge width at x-distance behind the cutting edge.

The cutting efficiency will depend on allot of variables, sharpness is just one.
Cutting efficiency =sharpness, keenness, edge condition, friction coefficient along the bevel (from coating or degree of polish) etc.

If you want to compare a feather de blade to a straight razor I also think you should use it in a shavette instead of a de razor. A shallow angle might make a big difference. Not all de razor are designed to allow the same shallow angle you might use with a straight razor.

 

[Frank Shaves]

A razor needs to be sharp to cut hair but for me it's about:

sharp + smooth = comfortable shave

What's fun about a straight razor is being able to control the edge - like finishing a razor with a Naniwa Gouken 12000 followed by a Dan's true hard black Arkansas with WD-40. Now that's the ticket!

For the record, I also enjoy a Personna Israeli "Red" in my DE .

 

[Doc Dan]

What I can say is that Feather blades are extremely sharp and they are very thin. They cut well, but they are not as comfortable on shave one as shave two. The straight razor is much more comfortable than all DE blades I've tried (a lot of them) but are much more trouble to maintain. Tradeoffs. As far as shave quality, the straight razor can easily give just as good of a shave in three passes as a DE razor in three passes.

 

[Aidah]

While I enjoy an occasional DE shave, those blades only retain the sharpness for a shave or two. I always get a more comfortable shave with my se razors. I think once I hit the sweet spot with my honing and balsa strips, the se blade is just a lot more efficient and clean cut.