coti question

[slant81]

So I got a coticule in the mail finally after waiting for well over a week for it to get here after my ordering it from tss. So here's my question. Does anyone use the darker side of the stone, or just the white side? I'm looking to use this mostly after my 8k norton. But I'd like to try the one stone honing with slurry if I can figure it out as well. Anyone have any good methods for one stone honing? Here's my new stone.

 

[Avenolpey]

Ask Jarod, but that looks like a slate backing only there for depth and strength. Great idea trying to both follow the 8k and one stone. Starting out use the 8k. One stone takes some feel and experience but Gary Haywood has some great videos on Coticule.be on dilution techniques.

 

[slant81]

Yeah I'm not getting the best edge. I've tried doing it the way Lynn Abrams does but it doesn't seem to be as good of an edge as the 8000. I can shave with it but its less sharp.

 

[HunterBlades]

Don't hone by stroke counts. Very pointless, especially with coticules. You need to learn your stone, it takes time. I'm sure it can produce a great shaving edge.

 

[Gamma]

Bevel to finish on a Coti is not the easiest thing to pull off - let alone on an unknown stone by someone that's never used a Coti before.
First thing to do - IMO - is to get your 8k edge set and work on learning how to improve it with the Coti.
Once you have the finish sequence figured out - you'll have a good view of how the stone behaves and you can figure out what to do with setting the bevel and progressing to the already-known finish.
Watching videos of guys honing on Cotis never helped me all that much, not in a specific way. In a general sense they help because you see different styles, but each stone can be vastly different than another; what one person is doing with one stone may very well have nothing in common with what I have to do with the stone in my hand.

 

[slant81]

yeah that's exactly what I've been trying to do I got my 8 K edge done, then try to just use the stone with just water and its just making my edge less sharp and I've been checking it and it's perfectly flat. I don't see how it could make my edge worse. it must be me though because I had the same problem with my c12k. I've been trying almost no pressure whatsoever I tried using soap still nothing in the other stone is supposedly very slow and both of them had dulled my edges I'll figure it out I'm sure at some point but it's funny because I've never had a problem sharpening anything.

 

[Brianskeet]

yeah that's exactly what I've been trying to do I got my 8 K edge done, then try to just use the stone with just water and its just making my edge less sharp and I've been checking it and it's perfectly flat. I don't see how it could make my edge worse. it must be me though because I had the same problem with my c12k. I've been trying almost no pressure whatsoever I tried using soap still nothing in the other stone is supposedly very slow and both of them had dulled my edges I'll figure it out I'm sure at some point but it's funny because I've never had a problem sharpening anything.

Welcome to the wonderful world of coti honing! You will fight them a bit in the beginning, but in time it will happen and you will wonder why you ever had trouble. I agree that it looks like a slate backed hone so the dark side will be of no use to you. A couple quick things to get you started. Does the hone auto slurry? If so you will want to rinse very often or hone under running water. Now trying to diagnose a coti honing method without the stone in hand is full of pitfalls, but with a slow hone I would start with a bit more pressure. Learn and use half X strokes. It greatly speeds things on a slow coti. Was the coti lapped with anything finer than a 325 DMT? I finish lap my coti stones to 2000 grit and still find that they will finish better after they have seen some steel for a while. Finish lap and then slurry the stone a few times before taking your razor to it. Lastly, on a slow hone, water only may take to long from 8K. Go from 8K to misty slurry and then slowly dilute. Don't be shy about throwing the laps to it. It is not uncommon for me to use well over a hundred laps per side. I don't count, but I do keep the sides even. I frequently do a 20 half x flip 20, then 18 flip, then 16 flip etc till I get down to 2 and then add full x strokes. I know that sounds like a lot, but with half X's it is very quick.

 

[Gamma]

then try to just use the stone with just water and its just making my edge less sharp and I've been checking it and it's perfectly flat. I don't see how it could make my edge worse.

Did you check flatness across both axes? across both the long and short dimensions?
Water laps - maybe try a light slurry and dilute slowly until you have 'trace slurry - and don't do water only laps at all.
Is the stone is auto slurrying, then try finishing under lightly running water. If you can manage uphill strokes, even better.
Is the Coti a La Grise?
Coming off the 8k - - you should have a good undercut on slurry - and with diluting the slurry you should be able to keep the undercut.
Often - if you see he undercut reducing or going away - that's the point where you're losing the edge.

Are you sure the Norton is flat? Check the same way I mentioned above.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Off the Norton 8000, I would think water on the coticule would be sufficient--no slurry. That coticule's narrow enough; do what you need to do beforehand, then go for the rolling stroke on the coti, directing pressure from heel to toe with the thumb on the shank, sort of like steeling a kitchen knife.

 

[Jayber Crow]

yeah that's exactly what I've been trying to do I got my 8 K edge done, then try to just use the stone with just water and its just making my edge less sharp and I've been checking it and it's perfectly flat. I don't see how it could make my edge worse. it must be me though because I had the same problem with my c12k. I've been trying almost no pressure whatsoever I tried using soap still nothing in the other stone is supposedly very slow and both of them had dulled my edges I'll figure it out I'm sure at some point but it's funny because I've never had a problem sharpening anything.

How are you checking for sharp after the 8k?
It seems odd that it's getting less sharp on plain water and light pressure after the 8k, unless the edge isn't really there yet.

 

[Gamma]

It's not unusual.
Try using light slurry and finishing before getting to plain water.

 

[slant81]

Off the Norton 8000, I would think water on the coticule would be sufficient--no slurry. That coticule's narrow enough; do what you need to do beforehand, then go for the rolling stroke on the coti, directing pressure from heel to toe with the thumb on the shank, sort of like steeling a kitchen knife.

This is exactly what I do.

 

[Mojorisin]

is it bad to slurry your coti with a DMT. I don't have a slurry stone and I've had no luck getting a good edge off it.

 

[Brianskeet]

I do not recommend using a DMT to slurry a coti. Much of why coticule stones work so well has to do with the nature of the garnets that do the cutting. The diamonds on a DMT can change, score, shear the garnets and change the honing properties. Pick up a slurry stone. They are cheap.

 

[Mojorisin]

the coti I have is pretty small 30 x 140, but I'm hoping to get it to work for me. Thanks, that might be just the trick for getting a nice edge off it.

 

[Brianskeet]

the coti I have is pretty small 30 x 140, but I'm hoping to get it to work for me. Thanks, that might be just the trick for getting a nice edge off it.

Nothing at all wrong with honing on a small coti. I tend to like to hone on stones that are small enough for comfortable hand holding myself. Big bench stones are gorgeous and all, but I just prefer hand holding while I hone.

 

[The Mick]

So I got a coticule in the mail finally after waiting for well over a week for it to get here after my ordering it from tss. So here's my question. Does anyone use the darker side of the stone, or just the white side? I'm looking to use this mostly after my 8k norton. But I'd like to try the one stone honing with slurry if I can figure it out as well. Anyone have any good methods for one stone honing? Here's my new stone.
View attachment 555025

I went through this very same issue when I first got my small coticule bout. I swore it was dulling my edje from my 8K. I posted threads about if my coticule was just a dud ect ect...
I would get frustrated and quit for awhile then come back to it after a few days and try again. I read everything I could find and this I think helped me the most http://www.coticule.be/dilucot-honing-method.html along with many others experiences espesialy with the La Grise vain I have. Now I'm getting very good close and amazingly comfortable shaves. But I do still get a dud now and then so my hit rate is maybe 70/30 now. You just have to keep at it and know when to walk away for awhile.

Good luck, Mick.

 

[HunterBlades]

Nothing at all wrong with honing on a small coti. I tend to like to hone on stones that are small enough for comfortable hand holding myself. Big bench stones are gorgeous and all, but I just prefer hand holding while I hone.

I have developed the funny habit of hand honing anything, even 8 x 3 stones like my Chosersa. It looks odd but I enjoy it

 

[Lomez]

the coti I have is pretty small 30 x 140, but I'm hoping to get it to work for me. Thanks, that might be just the trick for getting a nice edge off it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCtfSAMvuaY&app=desktop

One of my fav small cot vids.

 

[eKretz]

I have developed the funny habit of hand honing anything, even 8 x 3 stones like my Chosersa. It looks odd but I enjoy it

Ditto.