I don’t think I’ve ever experienced blade chatter in the sense of it flexing to the point where I felt something was off or uncomfortable. I do have razors that make more noise than others but I don’t really call that blade chatter. I’m enjoying reading other’s point of views on the topic.
Blade Chatter: What Is It and Is it Real?
- Thread starter Lane101
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Let's also talk about blade rigidity in this discussion. I typically get along better with razors which hold blades rigid than those which do not. That is not the only factor, but it is one of the factors. The Henson video above shows what a less vs. more rigid blade edge looks like. That matters in the shave to me.
I have a preference for well-clamped blades, but I won't go so far as to consider my preferences anything but anecdotal.
There's a current thread started by Shane at @Blackland Razors on the topic of clamping. I have a lot of respect for Shane and he does a good bit of myth busting in his posts and videos..
That referenced Henson video is provocative, but I can't say if it's relevant to behavior against skin, or whether it's a straw man demonstration, with the "bad" razor merely having high exposure.
I respect Henson's designs, but I've grown suspicious of some of their marketing. Which of you would shave with more than 2 RK blades, let alone following their guidance to use 100 RKs - pushing/milking your supply for two years?
On the topic of sound, I did some "mock" shaves with several razors with no blade, a dry face, and a bit of stubble.
The different razors sung at different pitches and loudness, and I think you can visualize how both the razor angle and "sharpness" of the safety bar can influence this.
Curiously, with my Overlander, Tatara and Athena, they all feel/felt smoothest and most efficient when making the most noise - at least WTG and XTG.
Whether the correlation between these mock shaves and real ones is meaningful in terms of razor design, I can't say. Perhaps the designers shaped the safety bar to produce the most razor noise when at optimum shaving angle as a means of feedback - a guide to find the angle.
... Thom
There's a current thread started by Shane at @Blackland Razors on the topic of clamping. I have a lot of respect for Shane and he does a good bit of myth busting in his posts and videos..
That referenced Henson video is provocative, but I can't say if it's relevant to behavior against skin, or whether it's a straw man demonstration, with the "bad" razor merely having high exposure.
I respect Henson's designs, but I've grown suspicious of some of their marketing. Which of you would shave with more than 2 RK blades, let alone following their guidance to use 100 RKs - pushing/milking your supply for two years?
On the topic of sound, I did some "mock" shaves with several razors with no blade, a dry face, and a bit of stubble.
The different razors sung at different pitches and loudness, and I think you can visualize how both the razor angle and "sharpness" of the safety bar can influence this.
Curiously, with my Overlander, Tatara and Athena, they all feel/felt smoothest and most efficient when making the most noise - at least WTG and XTG.
Whether the correlation between these mock shaves and real ones is meaningful in terms of razor design, I can't say. Perhaps the designers shaped the safety bar to produce the most razor noise when at optimum shaving angle as a means of feedback - a guide to find the angle.
... Thom
I don't know about chatter but I do know I like razors that clamp down near the edge like Overlander, Apex, Charcoal. Razors from Yates that have a lot of blade hanging out feel terrible on my face. They clamp further back.
But I have no issues with vintage Gillette Tech and Super Speed or Slim, ironic I think Vintage Gillette are better designed a lot of new expensive razors.
But I have no issues with vintage Gillette Tech and Super Speed or Slim, ironic I think Vintage Gillette are better designed a lot of new expensive razors.
Here’s that video! Blade flex in the direction we aren’t shaving in doesn’t matter. What matters is blade rigidity in the shaving plane and there are multiple ways to achieve that.
After about 6,300 safety razor shaves, i think chatter is a myth.
Work on your tech and prep. Use a better blade.
Work on your tech and prep. Use a better blade.
Excellent video by Blackland! 
Great discussion!
My own shaving ‘evolution’ has been towards razors that clamp firmly; so minimal chatter plus great shaves!!
My own shaving ‘evolution’ has been towards razors that clamp firmly; so minimal chatter plus great shaves!!
And I have about half of that amount of shaves under my belt, so what? For my face, rigidity matter's according to my notes that I make in my personal journal. 1st is technique and then the blade when the blade is held rigidly IME.
One thing I do notice is some people need a razor that clamps the blade well and some people really don't care. To each is own.
- Thread starter
- #30
Interesting video, on can definitely see how the blade on the right is under lots more tension by how it is curved. The subsequent cardboard shaving test is likely illustrating the effects of what appear to be significant differences in blade gap and exposure between the two razors.
P.S. Edit, See the Blackland video on this below. Validates that the issue with this poor "brand X" razor is poor design around many of the areas noted above.
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- Thread starter
- #31
Really clear and easy to understand video that makes sense. Confirms some of the points above regarding the variety of factors that need to come together for a razor to work well and a variety of alternative approaches for achieving this.
After watching your video I took a closer look at my razors and could better understand some of their design elements. My mild but effective King. C. Gillette also has no bottom clamping and works well because it's design also focuses on blade rigidity in the shaving plane. My TTO Weishi, a Superspeed clone, has a bit of a hybrid design that delivers fairly rigid blade clamping via intermittent support on the bottom of the blade that also works well. Suspect Gillette put a fair amount of effort into engineering this design back in the 1950's and it has stood the test of time.
The video also shows that the Henson blade support video posted above on blade support really doesn't correctly explain the topic as the issue with the poor "brand X" shave quality is likely related to poor design, excessive gap, etc versus the fact that the blade is not clamped on both sides.
Thank you for posting.
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It's definitely real!
Whether it impacts someone depends on how coarse the beard growth is, which will determine to what extent the blade will chatter.
I can't use TTO razors due to inherent chatter of that design.
I use razors that have a big blade bend and/or minimal blade showing beyond the top cap.
E.g. Tatsra razors have an incredible sandwich clamp design however, too much blade sticks out and this causes chatter on my stubble.
The blackbird OTOH has no blade support underneath the blade but due to the blade bend, it doesn't chatter and is one of my smoothest ATG razors!
Someone mentioned the old ATT vs ATT Windsor as not being very different.
This is a perfect example because I couldn't use the original ATT due to the chatter whereas the Windsor was one of my favourites as it had minimal blade showing, contributing to the smoothness of the razor.
Whether it impacts someone depends on how coarse the beard growth is, which will determine to what extent the blade will chatter.
I can't use TTO razors due to inherent chatter of that design.
I use razors that have a big blade bend and/or minimal blade showing beyond the top cap.
E.g. Tatsra razors have an incredible sandwich clamp design however, too much blade sticks out and this causes chatter on my stubble.
The blackbird OTOH has no blade support underneath the blade but due to the blade bend, it doesn't chatter and is one of my smoothest ATG razors!
Someone mentioned the old ATT vs ATT Windsor as not being very different.
This is a perfect example because I couldn't use the original ATT due to the chatter whereas the Windsor was one of my favourites as it had minimal blade showing, contributing to the smoothness of the razor.
Hello!
I also got a similar experience with a king c gillette. Of course the razor is not expensive and very good for the price, but I had a lot of wheepers with it when going against the grain. At the time I was thinking that it might be due to my lack of skills but thereafter I got an overlander and it was night and day.
I still like the king c gillette, but this kind of razor not clamping enough the blades might lead to some beginners getting discouraged from DE razors, specifically when a lot of time, on various forums, the advice to them is to improve their skills.
At the end the talking here about blades chatter make me thinks at how much the combination razor/blade is unique to every person. Rather than emphasizing too fast about people getting wheepers because of their poor skills, I really think that most of the time it just come from a combination razor/blade not working. And here is the main issue with DE razor in my opinion: not everyone has enough money or motivation to try 10 razors and 50 blades before finding something that work. I see a lot of time criticism about cartridge razors but it seems to me that these razors generate so much money, and have been so much studied that they are designed to fill the needs of probably 90% of people.
- Thread starter
- #34
Surprised to hear about weepers from a King C. Gillette (KCG) that is one of the mildest razors out there. From your KCG technique description is it possible that the razor is too mild for you so to compensate you move to a steep angle that is in effect "riding the cap"? I've found it almost impossible to get a weeper from my KCG. While I do "ride the cap" for a final buffing partial pass for a BBS shave I wouldn't use this for my first two full passes. The vast majority of KCG users here report similar experiences.
Regarding clamping the KCG, while it doesn't clamp the bottom of the blade it has plenty of blade bend to keep it rigid in the direction of the shaving plane/angle. I've never experienced any of the two definitions of chatter, noted in my OP, with this razor.
@nav, Respect that TTO razors don't work for you. What is it specifically that you experience during a shave with one of these razors or the original Above The Tie that you consider blade chatter? For example is it the sound of the shave or does the razor skip across your skin for example?
Don't understand why blade chatter is inherent in their design. My Superspeed clone (Weishi 9306) does an excellent job of providing a rigid blade with full clamping on the top and intermittent clamping on the bottom combined with a significant blade curve that makes it rigid in the direction of the shave. No surprise since it is a clone of the Superspeed design that Gillette likely heavily researched decades ago. Again I've never experienced either type of chatter/blade movement with this razor so long as it is twisted tight.
SeaDiving is right that the razors from leading manufacturers are designed to fill the needs of the vast majority of people. This goes back to their older DE designs. Recall some posted research on the Gillette Super Adjustable (Black Beauty, my first razor years ago) where it was designed to fit the needs of around 98% of shavers who would quickly land on the ideal level of aggressiveness for their beard characteristics and preferences. I recently acquired and adjustable that uses the same type of adjustment mechanism that fully clamps the blade on the top and intermittently on the bottom via multiple contact points. Again no blade movement/chatter of any type from this razor.
One would think that until you try a Lambda Athena. It clamps the blade very well and doesn’t have much exposure either, yet it’s probably the loudest razor I’ve ever used.
I’m feeling a bit pedantic today. A steep angle would be riding the bar. A shallow angle would be riding the cap. Steep vs shallow angle always confused me early on.
For the question of blade chatter, I’ve experienced it. On either side of my Adam’s apple I have a swirl pattern and the whiskers are thick and lay flat against my skin. I need a razor that clamps on the blade very well for that area. The other 90% of my face I can use any razor.
Blade chatter on my beard causes the blade to skip and also nick my skin.
The shave itself is also not close and leaves the skin with irritation.
I'm surprised to hear YouTube shavers say "this razor has good audible feedback". This to me is a huge negative, nothing "good" about it!
It's the sound of the blade chattering against the stubble.
Again, if ones beard is such that the chatter doesn't make a difference, them I can totally get why they may think chatter is not real.
E.g. I found all vintage TTO razors to chatter.
Even a fatboy/slim set at 9 can't give me a BBS due to the chatter (plus skin irritation). Whereas the Merkur Progress, with its huge blade bend, gives me a beautiful BBS on setting 3.5/5 without chatter.
My favorite razor is the blackbird. It has zero chatter and the huge blade exposure gives me an unmatched BBS.
Guys find this razor aggressive...Whereas I find it butter smooth as it mows through the stubble with no chatter and the exposure gives a deep BBS without any skin irritation.
interesting discussion. I notice the difference between razor designs in terms of how they sound and feel. to me there is no correlation between this type of chatter and how good the shave is. for example, the progress is noticeably louder than other razors, yet it is one of my best shavers.
One thing that hasn't been mention yet is the blade itself. Some blades are chattery in any razor, the Gillette 365 comes to mind. Again, it does not make them bad, as I get very good shaves with them.
Sometimes you can feel that the blade is getting stuck in a whisker and immediately you get the bit and you know a weeper is coming 3 seconds later. is that chatter or is it a dull blade? sometimes it happens, but this is different to the noise/vibration described above.
One thing that hasn't been mention yet is the blade itself. Some blades are chattery in any razor, the Gillette 365 comes to mind. Again, it does not make them bad, as I get very good shaves with them.
Sometimes you can feel that the blade is getting stuck in a whisker and immediately you get the bit and you know a weeper is coming 3 seconds later. is that chatter or is it a dull blade? sometimes it happens, but this is different to the noise/vibration described above.
Exactly my thoughts, with maybe a few exceptions, like the Athena.
I can definitely feel the difference when shaving against the grain between a good and not so good clamping.
The progress is one razor that I like but for me it screams lack of rigidity. Specially ATG. And the thing is loud.
People say that it bends the blade and that would be enough. No, not for me.
My piccolo breezes through my coarse neck whiskers ATG like a knife through butter.
I also really like the fatip rigidity but unfortunately it's not efficient enough to provide a BBS.
If fatip would fix the blade alignment issue and make it a touch more efficient by increasing the exposure, it'd rocket into my top 5 razors of all time!
Hell, even if they don't make it more efficient and just fix the alignment issue, I'd still have one in my den to enjoy now and then.
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