Beginner looking to upgrade to first badger brush

[milesandcoltrane]

1.Existing Brushes

A few years ago I started out with an Omega Professional Boar brush. Link here: http://www.omegabrush.com/english/dabarba/oggetto.php?id=98
After the initial novelty wore off I didn't use it or any cream or soap and just shaved with a vintage Gillette DE on my bare skin so that I could shave around my goatee. I found this brush too big. Its a 145mm in length from base to bristle tip. The handle was quite nice, maybe a bit too big but the bristle length was also very long. It was difficult to handle the brush properly. I suspect this was meant for barbers and as such was made bigger for barbers to lather their customer's faces.

Now that I've rediscovered proper wet-shaving, I recently bought another Omega Boar Brush. Link here:http://www.omegabrush.com/english/dabarba/oggetto.php?id=100
This one has provided a much better shaving experience. At 105mm from base to bristle tip, it's a full 40mm shorter and the difference is clear. The bristle has also softened a tad after 4 or 5 shaves compared to the older larger one. Maybe it's cuz I'm using hot water now vs. just warm water.

2. Lathery Leanings

When I had the larger brush I used the Omega hard Soap in a bowl. It was a quite hard to get a good lather and I never really caught on to using it on a regular basis.

Now with the smaller brush I bought a tube of Omega Shaving Cream. In Singapore it only costs US$2.50!!! Amazing!!! It lathers great with the boar brush but I suspect a badger brush would be a lot better. After a minute of building lather I get a decent, dense, moist and creamy consistency. But I haven't experienced a proper badger and shave cream so my impressions are to be taken with a grain of salt.

Right now I think I might prefer creams to soaps, but I'd definitely like to keep my options open as I'm just getting started on this wonderful journey =)

I like to build lather in a bowl but spend a decent amount of brush time on my face. I really like the feeling it gives and of course it helps to prep the beard yeah. I'm not too sure if I'm a bowl lather or face latherer at this point in time, but I'm definitely open to either. With creams I like to build it a bit in a bowl first, then continue building and prepping on my face.

3. What I want from my next brush

I really didn't like the super stiff and scratchy feel of my older and larger brush. Then again I was only using warm and not hot water so I'm not sure if that plays a part.

I'd definitely like a softer and less prickly brush than my current boar bristle. At the same time, I don't want something that'll be too soft to get under my stubble and prep my beard.

I'm a beginner in this field of fine old-world shaving so I seek your advice as to what I should be looking for.

4. Brush Aesthetics

I'm a pretty big man with pretty big hand hands so a generous handle is always welcome. At the same time I don't want something too big and cumbersome to use. I suspect a handle between the size of my old brush and new brush would be perfect. When my brush sees face time I tend to grip it like a cyclist grabbing is handle bars.

5. Budget

I would like to spend about $50-$60 with shipping, but I certainly don't mind spending up to $100 if its worth it. I just fear that a finer brush's qualities would be lost on a newbie like me.

6. Size

Size-wise I think I prefer a smaller brush. My newer Omega Boar is a decent size but I think I might prefer something a smidge smaller even. I maintain a goatee and like to lather around it so something smaller and maneuverable would be much appreciated

7. Brushes I'm looking at right now

Right now, I'm writing this long post because the brush options are a lot more confusing compared to razors and I'm truly confused. I've read many good things about the Edwin Jagger Best Badger Medium and that looks like a good option. But I haven't truly explored all the options like Simpsons and Rooneys and what have you so please do point me in the right direction.

8. Other Information

I recently lost my Grandpa's Vintage Gillette DE which I have been using for the past few years. I'm currently using a really cheap Lord's DE. It's metal and plastic and leaves a lot to be desired. I'm looking to get the Merkur HD 34c. I would love the bigger heft and short handle.

I also maintain a goatee. A post-modern Van Dyke if you will haha! It's a bit like something P Diddy/Puffy sports. I shape my mustache to a thin line at the sides and slightly thicker under the nose. I do shave under the nose to keep it tight. I also shape the goatee on my chin at the sides and I square it off at the top at the space halfway between my chin and lower lip. Hence I'm seeking an easily maneuverable razor and consequently a maneuverable brush to really get into the tight spots.

I have suffered from Razor Bumps for quite a while and my new foray into proper wet shaving as caused my skin to act up a little (Probably due to poor technique and a really crappy razor). Hence, the brush I will be getting really needs to build good lather and prep my beard really well to minimize these problems.

My apologies for this ridiculously long post! I really appreciate any advice you guys can give me

 

[Drubbing]

Having had a Rooney 1/2 for a few months, I've just got a Semogue boar as winter back up.

I don't think there's any trade off in lather quality with either brush. The Rooney probably whips up the lather a bit quicker on my face, but that's it.

 

[andrew98]

I don't have one in hand yet, but the early reports I've read say this New Forest brush is about the best you can get in the $40 to $50 range. (Order info is hidden at the very bottom of the page, fyi). It may even perform as well as, say, a Rooney Super Silvertip. If that's the case, it's easily the best bang for the buck in shaving brushes these days. I wish I had this brush as an option when I first started a couple years ago. That said, I'm not expecting it to perform like a high-end Simpson or Rooney two band.

Anyway, the handle is chunky, but the brush is on the small to small/medium side. It'll be fine for both soaps and creams.

You should try a Gillette Tech, if you want maneuverability. They're inexpensive and one of my top 3 razors. I'd also advise that if you're thinking about going the Merkur route, the Edwin Jagger DE89L is similar but much better. I tried two Merkurs before giving them up. After the EJ came out, I thought I'd take a punt. Even though the head of those razors look similar, the EJ is a lot smoother shave for some reason, and the fit and finish (especially plating) of EJ razors is much better than Merkur. Just my 2 cents.

-Andy

 

[rodeo]

7. Brushes I'm looking at right now

Right now, I'm writing this long post because the brush options are a lot more confusing compared to razors and I'm truly confused. I've read many good things about the Edwin Jagger Best Badger Medium and that looks like a good option. But I haven't truly explored all the options like Simpsons and Rooneys and what have you so please do point me in the right direction.


----------------

You might be hard pressed to even find an EJ BBB in medium and Large was the only one I found in stock and purchased it. However if you can locate a Crabtree & Evelyn store anywhere in your travels they also have their private labeled version of pretty much the same brush which is made for them by Edwin Jagger and is around $35 for the medium size I believe. Worth checking out and many here on the forum have raved about both the E&J as well as the C&E labeled brush too.

HERES THE CRABTREE & EVELYN BRUSH:
http://www.crabtree-evelyn.com/eng/...astic_handle_pure_badger_shaving_brush?130271

 

[Zumkopf]

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=158117

I think it will point you in the right direction.

 

[andrew98]

Bandwagon aside, a good brush is a good brush. Maybe focus on that. You can blame a lot of people for jumping on the Rooney 1/1 Super Silvertip bandwagon, but there's a reason for it. One can go wrong with an EJ BBB. It wasn't right for me. EJ brushes aren't as densely packed as any Shavemac or Rooney (or indeed the 2201). The BBB is relatively floppy and scratchy. Some people like that, but I prefer brushes with good backbone and softer tips. They're well made, and EJ provides great customer service. They just don't have the characteristics that I prefer.

The EJ BBB was my first brush, and two years ago it was about the best value around. That's no longer the case, imo. I'd take a Rudy Vey or Penworks over any EJ, even if I had to shell out a little more money.

After owning 15 brushes, I've figured out what works for me, and I'm down to a small(-ish) rotation of brushes that I really like (see the top 5 brushes below). I've found that nearly all the brushes I've settled on are low to moderately priced ($30 to $75), although I do like my Custom D01 Shavemac. That's the only expensive brush I've kept because the small difference in performance between a $50 and $150 brush isn't worth the cost to me. That, and I'd lose my shirt if I tried to sell my D01.

The unfortunate thing about brushes is that they're relatively expensive, so if you don't have a big budget for one (or several), it's important to get it right. Hence, this lengthy and less than pro-EJ post.

Here's what I've kept with approximate prices:

Shavemac D01 bulb shaped (21mm knot/50mm loft) $150 (may cost less now)

Shavemac Finest bulb shaped (19mm/45mm) $80 (note: I'm just as happy with this brush as I am the D01.)

Rooney 1/1 Super Silvertip $75 (Fan-shaped knot, a touch scrubbier than my Shavemacs, just as dense, great backbone.)

Semogue 620 Boar $30 (Great backbone and the scrubbiest tips of all my brushes but no so much as to be off-putting. I like it enough to keep it.)

Simpson Wee Scot $40 (Good backbone, and works surprisingly well despite its size. It's a fun brush, but if I were a minimalist, I'd get rid of it.)

Edwin Jagger Pure travel brush $35 (This was a gift, and I use it every time I travel. It's not very dense (to be kind), it's floppy, but it's fun to use once in a great while because it's so different from my other brushes. Reminiscent of my BBB, just a shade more scratchy. You can face lather with it though. Further proof that you can face lather with anything.)

Omega 21047 Boar/Badger mix $20 (Very small brush that works great. If it weren't so inexpensive, though, I'd probably sell it.)

Vulfix 2233 Boar $20 (I should get rid of this, but the handle is wonderful. I may drill it out and replace the knot with badger one day.)

I'm not a fan of Vulfix brushes (floppy) and Simpson's (Simfix) quality (mis-shapen knots, shedders, etc.) has pretty much turned me off for good. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I'm just not happy with Simpson, except for my Wee Scot.

I just ordered the New Forest 2201 because I think it's an insanely good buy that anyone with this AD and a few bucks lying around should give a fair shake. It's likely the best "first brush" (or "upgrade brush") out there now and would easily be a step up from the EJ BBB. I haven't bought a brush in quite a while, and I'm looking forward to this one. I just wish it had a 45mm loft, but maybe the 50mm will be fine.

The only other brush calling my name these days is a Rudy Vey Beehive. It's functional art. I'm not sure what knot I'd have put in that handle. Now that I sold my Commodore X1 and B&B 2009LE, I can almost justify a Beehive.

Sorry for the long post, and I have no idea if any of that helps.

-Andy

 

[rodeo]

No worries. I wasn't offended at all....
-Andy

It's all good..

I like your description of your Semogue 620 Boar $30 (Great backbone and the scrubbiest tips of all my brushes)

I myself just ordered two Semogues and it's the "backbone" and "scrubbiness" that I'm hoping I get from them. (listed below in my Sig.)

Ken

And with the BBB, I think it's not a bad starter brush, as you have to start somewhere right? Then comparisons and changes can grow from there. But there are many many good choices for that same "starter brush" too. I agree..

 

[andrew98]

I think you'll be impressed with the Semogues, particularly the quality. Some people find the 620 to be too scratchy, but if you don't like it, the SOC should do the trick. I think Semogue's acrylic handles are great. I've thought about trying the 830 or SOC, but I have too many brushes as it is. I should sell a few more, but I'm down to brushes that are either difficult to let go, for one reason or another, or so cheap that no one would buy them. Also, my little Omega loses a hair or two per shave, and I would hate to sell someone a shedder, particularly if it gets worse.

Good luck with the brush hunt, and my apologies for hijacking the OP's first thread. Welcome to B&B!

-Andy

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies guys! You're very friendly and helpful bunch, hard to find on Forums these days. Really appreciate all your words of advice!

After looking at your answers, the threads you've referred too and some searching on this brush forum here is my shortlist:

1) New Forest 2201 - This looks very attractive with all the great things being said and from experienced users no less. At the same time as with other Boards I've always been cautious about FOTMs. At this price, and with the extremely low shipping cost it almost seems like a no-brainer.

2) Shavemac 177 18/21/23mm - Right at the very top end of my budget and maybe a little more - but the rave reviews in here are quite hard to ignore. Also everyone on the Interweb keeps talking about how Shavemac is tons better than the Simpsons and Rooneys and what have you. Since I'm not looking to purchase a brush for a while this seems like something that could hold me over for a long time. At the same time if I get it wrong it'd really be a waste of moolah. Was looking at the Finest badger options but at almost the same price the 177 seems to get some really rave reviews.

3) Rooney 1/1 Super Silvertip - I've read mostly good things about the Rooney 1/1. I also dig the old world aesthetics of the handles. Might go for the Type 2 or 3 for the larger handle. The price on the other hand is a little more but if the jump in quality makes a significant difference from say a $40-$50 brush then I'd definitely jump for it.

4) Simpson Wee Scot - This looks really interesting. I suspect I might like a really small brush and this looks like what I've been looking for. Some say it acts like an everyday brush despite its size, some say it doesn't. The only way for me to find out is to buy and try. Also its really affordable. It'd be a pity if it doesn't work out though cuz I really want to like this little sucker of a brush.

5) EE/C&E BBB - Still keeping it here though its right at the bottom of the list now. It just seems like there are better options available. Checked my local C&E stores and they say they don't carry the line of brushes anymore here in Singapore. I heard a speciality men's grooming store brings in EJ brushes but couldn't find any on their site. Have to pay them a visit. Its the only brush I can touch and feel at a brick and mortar store out of all the brushes on this list.

Thanks for helping me narrow my search and focus my efforts guys. Please do provide your inputs on my shortlist and if you think I missed out a really good brush which deserves a hard look.



EJ/C&E BBB - Hmm I've only noticed now that some of the sites are out of stock with this brush. From the sound of it, it looks like there are better options available now. I checked with my local C&E store, a few of them actually and they all say they don't carry this anymore. Sigh. Still keeping it on the list, but at the bottom.

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Oh yes I forgot to add that I'd really like to try badger. Though my new Omega boar has me thinking that boar ain't that bad after all. Semogue's look like some really nice boar options and will definitely look into them once I've got my first badger =) Thank you again gentlemen!

 

[NavyHopeful]

I have some input on the Simpson Wee Scot. It was my second brush, which I purchased probably two or so months after beginning my wetshaving journey. I didn't let the naysayers discourage me with remarks such as "novelty" or "display-piece." I decided to give the little squirt a go.

When I first opened the Simpson box, I couldn't help but crack a smile at my new mini-shaving brush. It's kind of like the feeling when you get a puppy, and you love its small, playful size. Luckily you get that feeling without having to worry about your Wee Scot growing into a full-sized brush! I'll admit, it probably smelled for the first two or so lathers but it wasn't very noticable. Being my second brush, I haven't smelled any boars to compare it to but it wasn't bad at all.

One of my gripes with my original brush, which was a Vulfix (404 I think, but don't count me on that) was that I would get lather all over my face. Although I still get lather in my nose and ears, that's probably because I'm not very careful. The spread of the brush allows you to cover your face effectively, but it's not nearly as messy as larger brushes. Some people love large brushes. Although I haven't tried a lot of brushes, I decided I like smaller brushes.

The brush itself works very well with soaps and creams. I usually dip-the-tips/squeeze cream on the tips and get to work. Very soft and comfortable brush, and holds lather for a minimum of two passes, but I can get three + touch ups. I've also used it with a puck of tabac and shave sticks as well, and it performs well in all cases. I have tried a bowl lather with some Musgo and while it worked, I think the Wee Scot shines as a face-latherer.

After four or more months as my daily driver, it has developed into an incredibly soft brush. My brush was a shedder, which I think is important to note. It would lose 1-2 hairs every shave. I used the shampoo + comb method which helped a lot. I now occasionally lose one hair, but it's mostly subsided.

HOWEVER, up to this point I've offered the brush mostly praise. But recently, on extended face lathering sessions (probably upwards of two minutes, adding water here and there to get a nice thick, smooth lather) my hand began to cramp up. This has happened more often in the past two weeks or so, which is when I started noticing it. It could be the way I'm holding it, or maybe I was spending too long lather, but it was uncomfortable and I had to switch hands for a bit until the cramping subsided.

For such reason, I am now on the hunt for my third brush, my new daily driver. I'm not necessarily looking for a huge brush and I'm definitely looking to stay in the best badger range. Although I've never tried Silvertip, I've heard that the tips can be scratchy. My main concern is for a larger, more ergonomic handle, and I've been looking into a larger simpson (case, special, or berkeley) and I've also become very interested in the New Forest, which is what I'm currently leaning towards.

I hope this helps

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Thanks for the input NavyHopeful! I like what I've read on your post. Sound like we fall into the same boat. I'm decidedly a small brush lover precisely because you can be so accurate with where you point your brush. And I've got a relatively intricate Van Dyke going on hence a smaller brush lets me put the lather where I want and lets me see where I'm shaving.

But this thing about the small handle being a real pain inducer is a very big concern. I've got pretty large hands and a small handle would be a real challenge. Its really quite hard to get a brush with a nice big handle but a small brush head eh.

The Simpson Major looks nice with the case doubling up as a large handle but the price is a little prohibitive.

Right now all the great things I keep reading about the New Forest keep pushing me towards that direction as well. But its really bigger than what I'd like.

 

[filedog]

While I've owned a fair amount of razors, I have only had two brushes, so I may not be that much help. I had an Omega 49 boar, and like you found it was too big. I wanted something smaller, softer, and esthetically NICER. I looked for quite a while read a TON, and finally BOUGHT a Rooney 3/1. Reading a bunch of reviews, I went with Fido's advice and went for Silvertip rather than Super. $65 plus shipping is more than you want to spend, but I must say I am very happy with my brush. No problems using it for soaps or creams, not scratchy, but plenty of backbone. The overall shape, appearance of the handle material (it has a nice "grain") and knot, just appealed to me more than any of the others. This is one shaving purchase I was totally satisfied with. If I could add anything to all the great advice you have gotten, you might want to adjust your budget up a wee bit. No need to spend more than $75 or so, but you might as well get one you REALLY like, because you might be like me, and be satisfied with just ONE

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Just a quick update for my new razor to be I've settled on the Edwin Jagger DE89L =) Thanks andrew98! Before your comment I thought the Merkur HD was the only sensible option given the almost overwhelming recommendation for it when asked what razor should a newbie get.

It looks mighty fine and dandy! Was wrestling between whether to get a Muhle R89 or the EJ. But went with the EJ for the added weight and cheaper price =)

But I digress. This hunt for a brush is taking longer than expected. Granted half the fun (ok most of it) of buying something new is the research that goes into it. I'm sure many a regular interweb forum frequenter would agree.

Inititally I was dead set on the New Forest 2201, though I think I might like something a little smaller in terms of the loft and diameter.

Everyone says the New Forest is absolutely fantastic for the price. Thing is I'm willing to spend a little more. Since I'm ordering online, with shipping in the mix I'd rather go all the way (not Pilsson High Water Mountain Pheonix goat crazy). I've been looking at the Shavemac 177 in 21mm. Price is just about right I think. Seems crazy spending more than a 100 for my first brush but figured it'd be better to spend more now than later.

The Simpson PJ2 in Best Badger looks attractive (then again the New Forest looks a lot like the 2-band version of this) so does the Duke 2 in Best Badger.

 

[andrew98]

How about one of these instead. Small handle, small knot, short loft, and 20% off if you use the B&B discount code.

I never like the #177 handle, and if the loft is over 50mm, it will seem floppy. Which hair grade are you considering. I'd go with Finest, which is a type of silvertip (silver-er tips than my D01 even). The #25 handle is wonderful, imo.

Great razor choice, btw. If you find it too aggressive try a '40's-'60's SuperSpeed and a Tech. One (or all) of those is bound to work out for you.

-Andy