3P Italian Croap vs MdC: Calling Marco

[kirkendol]

Has anyone else noticed that 3P pure vegetable Italian croap has nearly the exact same ingredients and in nearly the same order as our much beloved MdC? I also hear that performance between these two soaps is nearly identical (except fragrance; 3P is a classic Italian barber almond scent). If this is indeed true, 3P would be a much better value (1 kg brick for $25) than MdC. Perhaps Marco can chime in on this? 3P is definitely on my short list of soaps to try!

MdC Ingredients:
Stearic Acid, Aqua, Coconut Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Parfum

3P Ingredients:
Stearic Acid, Aqua, Cocos Nucifera, Potassium Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Parfum, Potassium Carbonate

 

[rand77]

The sodium hydroxide will harden the soap considerably making it different than MdC. The ingredient list only states the composition from most abundant to least, giving no indication of the proportions of each ingredient. So I don't think its possible to infer the performance of the soap from the ingredients list alone.

Stearic acid (very long fatty acid) and coconut oil (contains several medium length fatty acids) differ quite a bit in several chemical properties and give the soaps quite different characteristics.

 

[kirkendol]

While I agree with most of your assessment, remember that 3P is an Italian croap and is likely softer than MdC irrespective of the use of lye in its formulation. Also, I never inferred that the 2 soaps performed similarly based on their ingredients alone. I have heard actual users of 3P state that its performance rivals that of MdC. This subjective evidence in addition to the objective formulation evidence presents an interesting query.

 

[rand77]

I have heard actual users of 3P state that its performance rivals that of MdC.

In that case I'd love to hear more about this soap! I'm a big fan of Italian soft soaps, and all the ones I've tried have been excellent performers.

It's currently under $30 for 1000 mL delivered to CONUS which is stark contrast to MdC. I wouldn't even know what to do with that amount of soap!

 

[jpakstis]

MdC is no "magical" soap, but it has one "ingredient" that just about every other soap doesn't: curing time. I think one of the reasons why MdC is very expensive, in addition to top-flight ingredients and containers, etc., is that it sits for several months curing and therefore hardening and reducing down.

 

[COShaveSurfer]

MdC is no "magical" soap, but it has one "ingredient" that just about every other soap doesn't: curing time. I think one of the reasons why MdC is very expensive, in addition to top-flight ingredients and containers, etc., is that it sits for several months curing and therefore hardening and reducing down.

That Is a very good point

 

[kirkendol]

+1 Good Point

Just ordered a brick from shaving.ie. Once I receive it, I will report back with the shave results.

 

[Marco]

In my opinion 3P and Martin de Candre are quite different and under many aspects, too. 3P, with its traditional Almond scent, has been introduced as a great value for the money soap for wet shavers and a workhorse for barbers. Its performance is very, very good and I like to consider it as a veggie version of Cella or P.160. MdC, on the other hand, is a luxurious soap, made by hand in the ancient (and expensive) way, like the very first Marseilles soaps. In terms of pure performance MdC wins hands down for me: better lather, better scent, better slickness and post-shave feel. IMHO.

 

[kirkendol]

Thank you as always Marco for your insight! One last question...how does 3P compare to Cella? Which do you feel is the better soap?

 

[ouch]

My friend's Aston Martin has an ingredients list remarkably similar to that of my Yugo.

The only thing that matters is the final product.

 

[Marco]

Thank you as always Marco for your insight! One last question...how does 3P compare to Cella? Which do you feel is the better soap?

Cella, no question. I find its lather more stable, slicker and way more moisturizing. Nothing wrong with 3P, which is a very respectable product, but for me it's simply not at the same level. Please Todd, consider all this as my personal opinion only.

 

[takeshi]

I also hear that performance between these two soaps is nearly identical (except fragrance; 3P is a classic Italian barber almond scent). If this is indeed true

Performance sometimes seems to vary. It may due to an individual's technique. It may be due to differences in water hardness. It may be due to differences in beards and skin. It could be any combination of those factors (and possible others) as well. In the end, it really comes down try trying both and seeing what works best for you. They're both generally well-regarded soaps.

Unfortuantely, I haven't tried 3P so I can't compare it with MDC. It's on my list of soaps to eventually try though.

 

[kirkendol]

Cella, no question. I find its lather more stable, slicker and way more moisturizing. Nothing wrong with 3P, which is a very respectable product, but for me it's simply not at the same level. Please Todd, consider all this as my personal opinion only.

Thanks again Marco!

 

[Teddyboy]

IMHO, 3P is an excellent, very soft Italian soap. In my view it is clearly in the same ballpark as Cella and Vitos Super Extra. In my experience it is also comparable to MdC, as all of these soaps are among the top performers I have in rotation. Connaughtshaving carries these Italian soaps in smaller, 125 gram amounts, so you don't have to buy an entire kilo in order to test these products for yourself. In my later years I have tried to keep an open mind and avoid (as much as I can) product-worship. There are too many excellent soaps available in different price ranges for me to fixate on the supremacy of any particular one or few. Just enjoy yourself.

 

[SliceOfLife]

That Is a very good point

Other soaps have plenty of curing time. Far more than MdC in all probability. The Italian croaps may well be among the few exceptions. But with milled soaps who knows how long the soap pellets "cured" for before being mixed.

Yes, the simplest italian croaps can be virtually identical to MdC with the exception that they are not pure Potassium-based, but most add a more varied fat source like palm or tallow to the mix. This makes the soap slightly (almost insignificantly) cheaper to produce, tends to make it a bit softer (but this is counteracted somewhat by the Sodium use), somewhat gentler to the skin, and slightly less effective a latherer.

3p SHOULD be a bit harder than MdC, I don't know that I've ever handled 3p, but if it is not, that implies that A: the amount of sodium salts is low... meaning it is VERY close to MdC indeed, and B: it very likely has air or excess water in the batch to intentionally make it softer... this in my experience degrades performance when lathered well, but does make a soap easier for a novice to lather.

If 3p is indeed substantially softer than Mdc, then you can either double-boiler it (to remove air) or else leave it out to dry (beware this will probably substantially decrease the scent before the soap dries fully), and it SHOULD turn harder than MdC once this is all said and done, but how much harder depends on how much Sodium is in there... which since it is only ahead of perfum in the recipe, could be as little as a fraction of a percent... and that amount would have very little impact.


The other variable would be the ratio of Stearates to Cocoates... but if there is more than a VERY slight change in this ratio, the way the soaps lather would be RADICALLY different, and immediately apparent.

 

[Teddyboy]

This thread inspired me to use 3P this morning, and as I expected, I was not disappointed. The shave was clearly on par with the Cella and Vitos experiences of earlier in the week.

 

[john parker]

Tried 3p, tried MdC. For the price difference, it is 3P all the way!